Hi all, I too have had this problem and still haven't been able to solve it. My great-grandfather Thomas Kavanagh, who has been mentioned on here before, was allegedly born in Ferry hill according to the census records of 1881 - but he wasn't. He was also, apparently, born in Wrexham, north Wales, but again he wasn't. I still have no idea where to find his birth and cannot therefore find a baptism for him either. I do know his parents were both Irish and I believe he was born in 1865 - I arrived at this figure from his marriage certificate which is the only thing I have relating to him. To add to the confusion I have never, after many years of looking, ever been able to find his death. His wife remarried in 1902 and I have found no reason to think she married illegally so where did he die? I am a novice in family research but after having joined genes reunited and ancestry I still am no further forward. Any help/advice from the more experienced amongst you would be great. E. www.eyshasfineart.co.uk "Never Live Life Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly."

Hi Daphne Birth registration was compulsory from mid 1837 , the onus was on the Registrar to find the event at first until the parents or the householder was made responsible in 1874, a fine was also introduced However many events were not registered in the early years of civil registration, particularly births, many events were registered but never made it to the GRO index or were mistranscribed in the process Opinions vary but I have heard the figure of 10% to 15% of events were not registered It is also possible he was not Baptised, many were not Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Ages can be wrong and often are but It's quite possible his birth was never registered, it wasn't compulsory until the 1870's. You are more likely to find a Baptism. Daphne

Hi Allan The simple answer is the birthplace is only as good or as accurate as it was given As you suggest, people assumed they were born somewhere because that is their earliest recollection, others deliberately gave false or misleading information for one reason or another Unless the enumerator knew differently, the birthplace given on the household schedule would be taken as given, it is also possible the enumerator misread the handwriting on the householders schedule and entered his interpretation of the birthplace (the schedules were destroyed long ago) Have you found him in any other census year? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Hello All Does anybody know how accurate Places of birth are on Census returns, My John Robson who has been well documented on here is an Example as follows; on the 1861 Census he says he was born in Bishopwearmouth, however after checking the Gro Births for 1840, there was no John Robson birth Registered in Bishopwearmouth/ Sunderland, could it be his family moved there when he was a child and so he assumed he was born there?. Thanks Allan Robson

Hello All Does anybody know how accurate Places of birth are on Census returns, My John Robson who has been well documented on here is an Example as follows; on the 1861 Census he says he was born in Bishopwearmouth, however after checking the Gro Births for 1840, there was no John Robson birth Registered in Bishopwearmouth/ Sunderland, could it be his family moved there when he was a child and so he assumed he was born there?. Thanks Allan Robson

In "Making Sense of the Census" by Edward Higgs, he devotes four pages to birthplace data in the censuses. He makes the comment that there was a tendency to record the place of residence, or the earliest one which could be remembered as the place of birth. Stan Mapstone

Actually it was compulsory from 1837 but there was no penalty for failing to register a birth until 1875. There was a penalty for late registration in the 1836 Act. Registration was compulsory in the case of the Registrar. The onus was on him to collect births and deaths and he could be fined for failure to register them. In carrying out his duties the parents were compelled, under the Act to supply the information when asked. The Act states the parent or occupier 'shall' give information to the Registrar on a birth 'upon being requested to do so.' The registrars also had an incentive to register as they were paid for the entries viz. for the first Twenty Entries of Births and Deaths in every Year which he shall have registered, whether the same be of Births or of Deaths indiscriminately, Two Shillings and Sixpence each, and One Shilling for every subsequent Entry of Births or Deaths in each Year. In fact two registrars were jailed for fraudulent entries. In one case births and the other births and deaths. There are a number of cases in the early years of registration where people were taken to court and fined for refusing to supply the information to the Registrar when asked. The first Registrar General estimated a 5% non-registration rate for births 1837-76, declining from 6.9% in 1841-50 to 1.8% in 1861-70. Stan Mapstone -----Original Message----- From: DAPHNE HUGHES <daphneandphil@btinternet.com> To: ENG-DURHAM@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:40 Subject: Re: [ENG-DURHAM] Accurate Birthplaces on Census Returns Ages can be wrong and often are but It's quite possible his birth was never egistered, it wasn't compulsory until the 1870's. You are more likely to find Baptism. Daphne --- On Tue, 10/11/09, Allan Robson <allandrobson@btinternet.com> wrote: rom: Allan Robson <allandrobson@btinternet.com> ubject: [ENG-DURHAM] Accurate Birthplaces on Census Returns o: ENG-DURHAM@rootsweb.com ate: Tuesday, 10 November, 2009, 11:21 ello All oes anybody know how accurate Places of birth are on Census returns, My John obson who has been well documented on here is an Example as follows; on the 1861 Census he says he was born in Bishopwearmouth, however after hecking the Gro Births for 1840, there was no John Robson birth Registered in ishopwearmouth/ Sunderland, could it be his family moved there when he was a hild and so he assumed he was born there?. Thanks llan Robson ------------------------------- o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

In a message dated 10/11/2009 11:28:01 GMT Standard Time, allandrobson@btinternet.com writes: on the 1861 Census he says he was born in Bishopwearmouth, however after checking the Gro Births for 1840, there was no John Robson birth Registered in Bishopwearmouth/ Sunderland, could it be his family moved there when he was a child and so he assumed he was born there?. Allan: In a word, "Yes". We should never assume that just because we see something written down, even in an "official" source, that it is correct! False information could be given, either in all innocence or deliberately in order to mislead. I am convinced that the sort of reason you give is something that occurred very often. Geoff Nicholson

Ages can be wrong and often are but It's quite possible his birth was never registered, it wasn't compulsory until the 1870's.  You are more likely to find a Baptism. Daphne   --- On Tue, 10/11/09, Allan Robson <allandrobson@btinternet.com> wrote: From: Allan Robson <allandrobson@btinternet.com> Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] Accurate Birthplaces on Census Returns To: ENG-DURHAM@rootsweb.com Date: Tuesday, 10 November, 2009, 11:21 Hello All Does anybody know how accurate Places of birth are on Census returns, My John Robson who has been well documented on here is an Example as follows; on the 1861 Census he says he was born in Bishopwearmouth, however after checking the Gro Births for 1840, there was no John Robson birth Registered in Bishopwearmouth/ Sunderland, could it be his family moved there when he was a child and so he assumed he was born there?. Thanks Allan Robson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ann Still there (with more added) but slightly different to get at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp Select "record search pilot" from the "Search Records" menu Select "Browse or Record Collections" halfway down the page Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Dear Listers, > > > > It is a few months now since I looked at the Familysearch Durham > parish transcripts on line - and they seem to have disappeared. > > It was a fantastic resource - does anyone know where it can be found > now? > > > > Ann

Hi Ann, Go to http://tinyurl.com/yjws3wl Stan Mapstone -----Original Message----- From: Ann <annathamble@aol.com> To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 13:59 Subject: Re: [ENG-DURHAM] ENG-DURHAM Digest, Vol 4, Issue 176 Dear Listers, It is a few months now since I looked at the Familysearch Durham arish transcripts on line - and they seem to have disappeared. It was a fantastic resource - does anyone know where it can be found ow? Ann -----Original Message----- From: eng-durham-request@rootsweb.com To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 8:01 Subject: ENG-DURHAM Digest, Vol 4, Issue 176 Today's Topics: 1. Ralph Hunter and Maria (nee Clarke) (Melvyn Hunter) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:51:15 -0000 From: "Melvyn Hunter" <rikki@ruken39.wanadoo.co.uk> Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] Ralph Hunter and Maria (nee Clarke) To: <eng-durham@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <006701ca5ff4$6e048790$4801a8c0@ORAC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Listers, I have an ancestor Ralph Hunter who was born in 1853 at rochester in Northumberland. He later married Maria Clarke and they had an extensive amily. I think the two of them eventually moved into Lanchester, where they pent the rest of their days. Would anyone know if this is correct and where ight they be buried? If I have the right couple, then he died in 1933 and she in 925. TIA Melvyn. ------------------------------ To contact the ENG-DURHAM list administrator, send an email to ENG-DURHAM-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the ENG-DURHAM mailing list, send an email to ENG-DURHAM@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the ody of the email with no additional text. End of ENG-DURHAM Digest, Vol 4, Issue 176 ****************************************** ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Dear Listers, It is a few months now since I looked at the Familysearch Durham parish transcripts on line - and they seem to have disappeared. It was a fantastic resource - does anyone know where it can be found now? Ann -----Original Message----- From: eng-durham-request@rootsweb.com To: eng-durham@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 8:01 Subject: ENG-DURHAM Digest, Vol 4, Issue 176 Today's Topics: 1. Ralph Hunter and Maria (nee Clarke) (Melvyn Hunter) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 21:51:15 -0000 From: "Melvyn Hunter" <rikki@ruken39.wanadoo.co.uk> Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] Ralph Hunter and Maria (nee Clarke) To: <eng-durham@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <006701ca5ff4$6e048790$4801a8c0@ORAC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Listers, I have an ancestor Ralph Hunter who was born in 1853 at rochester in Northumberland. He later married Maria Clarke and they had an extensive family. I think the two of them eventually moved into Lanchester, where they spent the rest of their days. Would anyone know if this is correct and where might they be buried? If I have the right couple, then he died in 1933 and she in 1925. TIA Melvyn. ------------------------------ To contact the ENG-DURHAM list administrator, send an email to ENG-DURHAM-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the ENG-DURHAM mailing list, send an email to ENG-DURHAM@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-DURHAM-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ENG-DURHAM Digest, Vol 4, Issue 176 ******************************************

Dear Listers, I have an ancestor Ralph Hunter who was born in 1853 at rochester in Northumberland. He later married Maria Clarke and they had an extensive family. I think the two of them eventually moved into Lanchester, where they spent the rest of their days. Would anyone know if this is correct and where might they be buried? If I have the right couple, then he died in 1933 and she in 1925. TIA Melvyn.

In a message dated 01/11/2009 19:08:58 GMT Standard Time, Ravenssylv@aol.com writes: Does anyone have the MI's for Jarrow Cemetery please I am looking to see if there is an MI for Samuel Farquhar McKAY died Dec 1870 aged 1 Jessie McKAY died march 1871 aged 11 they are both buried in Section J grave 447 Sylvia: - and they say the beer isn't as strong as it used to be! Whatever I was on last night seems to have really addled my brain this morning. You asked about McKay and I sent you an answer about Davies! OK, forget that last one. Here's the situation with respect to McKay. There's only one McKay stone recorded and it is not the one you seek. It is: No 2618 (section 23) Dear husband Thomas McKay d 14.10.1971 aged 50 also his wf Annie d 8.7.1996 aged 74. All my other comments still stand, plus the extra detail that the list was compiled in 1998. I hope you can follow the abbreviations all right. They seem straightforward. Again, my apologies for getting the surname wrong! Geoff Nicholson

In a message dated 01/11/2009 19:08:58 GMT Standard Time, Ravenssylv@aol.com writes: Does anyone have the MI's for Jarrow Cemetery please I am looking to see if there is an MI for Samuel Farquhar McKAY died Dec 1870 aged 1 Jessie McKAY died march 1871 aged 11 they are both buried in Section J grave 447 Would love to know if they have a headstone Thanks Sylvia(Wirral) Sylvia: The MIs of Jarrow cemetery were recorded by a group from the NDFHS S Tyneside Branch under John Ashburner, and are published by the NDFHS on microfiche and CD. There are two Davies stones but neither agree with the details you give. I shall give them here as they may be relevant to other members of your family. The published fiche has a plan of the cemetery with the numbers an d letters of the districts within it marked. However, I am not sure whether they are the same as the ones in the register! They may have been changed over the years or they may have been invented by the recorders if no official plan was to be found. The numbers of the stones are just the order in which the recorders came to them.The stones are: No 1150 (area 6) Willie Davies d 31 October 1862 aged 2 years and 8 months. No 2624 (section 23) Albert Davies, d 1 June 1951 aged 62 years. Geoff Nicholson

Hi List Does anyone have the MI's for Jarrow Cemetery please I am looking to see if there is an MI for Samuel Farquhar McKAY died Dec 1870 aged 1 Jessie McKAY died march 1871 aged 11 they are both buried in Section J grave 447 Would love to know if they have a headstone Thanks Sylvia(Wirral)

I am trying to find Thomas in presumably Stockton-on-Tees where he had two children, Anne and Edward James around the middle of the 1820's. Helater became a corn merchant in East London. Can anyone help? Brian

Hi Bob, Whereabouts in the area of Northumberland or County Durham did your Whitfields live, where was the son Anthony Atkinson Whitfield baptised? I have the surname Whitfield in the Stockton, Darlington & later at Sedgefield areas of County Durham going back into the 1700s. Regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain. > > I am looking for information on Gullielmus or William Whitfield born > about > 1765-1770 married a Female Atkinson, had son Anthony Atkinson Whitfield > born 1794.

I am looking for information on Gullielmus or William Whitfield born about 1765-1770 married a Female Atkinson, had son Anthony Atkinson Whitfield born 1794. Thanks, Bob McKeon Hartford, CT USA

Hi Arlene As I explained previously, there is no online ordering system There is a charge of five pounds per will, that includes a search, not refundable if there is no will found The charge includes copies (ask for will and grant) so there is no guessing necessary I would say fifteen pounds is quite reasonable for three wills There was a plan to make an online index available but that has gone remarkably quiet recently, not surprising given the present financial climate Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > Wondering if anyone on the list that is in North America has ever > obtained a copy of an English will/probate documents. > > I have been searching for a while and cannot find a way to obtain them > online. Seems the only way is to snail mail the requesy to York and > guess at the amount in pounds. I have the death dates for the three > people and know where they died just don't know if they actually had > left a will or died intestate. > > Any thoughts on the subject gratefully received > > Arlene > Victoria BC

The website you mentioned has been closed and changed to http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/ You will be directed to the new sight for now though from the afore mentioned link but not sure for how long Joyce Hi Arlene, I am also in Victoria, BC and have just applied for a copy of my great grandmother's will using the details found on this webpage: <http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1226.htm>http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1226.htm This webpage was supplied by: