Many thanks Stan for that information. It clarifies things very well. Regards Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: <Stanmapstone@aol.com> To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] born out of wedlock query > Between 1837 and 1875 if the mother informed a registrar of an illegitimate > child's birth and also stated the father's name, the registrar could record > him as the father, otherwise the space for the father's name and occupation > will be blank. > > This applied until The Registration Act of 1875 which stated: > "The putative father of an illegitimate child cannot be required as father > to give information respecting the birth. The name, surname and occupation of > the putative father of an illegitimate child must not be entered except at > the joint request of the father and mother; in which case both the father and > mother must sign the entry as informants" > > Therefore a man could only be named as the father of an illegitimate child > on the birth certificate if he consented and was also present when the birth > was registered. > > The Poor Law Amendment Act enabled a mother of a child born out of wedlock > to apply at Petty Sessions for maintenance from its father. These applications > were sent in the form of annualreturns to the Clerk of the Peace. > > Regards Stan Mapstone

Hi Everyone, Thought some of you may be interested in this website below. It has photos of Stockton-on-Tees and area, old photos as well as some new ones! http://picture.stockton.gov.uk It's interesting for people who had ancestors living in Stockton, so they can see what the area looked like! Jan Boyes

Hi, If someone had a child born out of wedlock back in 1869, can anyone tell me what the likelyhood of the father's name being on the birth certificate (if there was one) would be? If his name was on the certificate, would that make him liable to any type of penalty, monetary or otherwise? Many thanks for any help. Anne

Between 1837 and 1875 if the mother informed a registrar of an illegitimate child's birth and also stated the father's name, the registrar could record him as the father, otherwise the space for the father's name and occupation will be blank. This applied until The Registration Act of 1875 which stated: "The putative father of an illegitimate child cannot be required as father to give information respecting the birth. The name, surname and occupation of the putative father of an illegitimate child must not be entered except at the joint request of the father and mother; in which case both the father and mother must sign the entry as informants" Therefore a man could only be named as the father of an illegitimate child on the birth certificate if he consented and was also present when the birth was registered. The Poor Law Amendment Act enabled a mother of a child born out of wedlock to apply at Petty Sessions for maintenance from its father. These applications were sent in the form of annualreturns to the Clerk of the Peace. Regards Stan Mapstone

Hello All Just wanted to say a big thankyou to Geoff for his very interesting and informative reply to my question. It never ceases to amaze me the wealth of knowledge that people on the list have. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to provide such a comprehensive reply. Best wishes Debbie Wild DUBAI U.A.E. www.wildfamily.info ----- Original Message ----- From: <GNicresearch@aol.com> To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] Byker Hill Church > In a message dated 23/03/2004 17:52:13 GMT Standard Time, > wilds@emirates.net.ae writes: > > I hope someone can help me, on the 1851 census I have someone listed as born > in Byker Hill in 1785 can anyone tell me what church would have been the > local church for this area at the time. > > Debbie: > At the time Byker Hill was the extreme eastern end of Newcastle All Saints > parish, so that would be the parish church. A Chapelry was founded in 1768, > based on St Ann's Church, which was nearer to Byker Hill than was All Saints. > However, there are no registers of St Ann's before 1812, and even then they > have long gaps in them, where a jealous Vicar of All Saints kept insisting > that all baptisms etc were performed at the parish church and none at St > Ann's! There are several lengthy notes in the registers to that effect, though > successive Curates of St Ann's ignored the Vicar and even the Bishop! As far > as you are concerned the C of E parish church, and the best place to seek the > baptisms etc, would be All Saints - assuming they were C of E, of course. > However, just yards away on the other side of Byker Hill there was the edge > of the parish of Longbenton (Township of Walker), so if you are completely > stuck you might like to think about that one. I should mention, though, that > Longbenton parish church was even further from Byker than was All Saints. > Byker Hill, as part of Byker, became built-up with long brick terraces of > houses and "Tyneside flats", but in 1785 it would have been quite rural. There > was an important coal mine there (I have a facsimile of a miner's bond from > it, published in the 1970s in Newcastle University's "Coal from Newcastle" > Archive Teaching Unit) and the other local industry was stone quarrying. I > have a feeling there was also at least one windmill on the hill-top. > It would have been most interesting to have been on Byker Hill in the days > before it was built-up, as it would have been possible to see, probably quite > clearly, the line of HadrIan's Wall as it came up to the summit of the hill > on the east from Wallsend (Segedunum), on the line of the present Fossway, > and passed over the top, proceeding westwards along the line of the present > Shields Road towards Newcastle (Pons Aelius). There may have been quite a lot > of it left in 1785. > Geoff Nicholson > 57 Manor Park, Concord, WASHINGTON, Tyne & Wear NE37 2BU > NBL/DUR family history research in depth by THE local expert. > Record searching service: you name the records, I search them! > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > A-Z of BRITISH GENEALOGICAL RESEARCH > by Dr Ashton Emery > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/EmeryPaper.html >

Hi List I have just discovered my 4X grandmother, Hannah CHARLTON born 1825. She married William HARRISON in 1853. So far I have found only 2 children, William born 1855 and Thomas born 1861. She was widowed in the 1881 census living with Thomas at 65 Stockton St, Stranton, Durham. In 1891 she was living with her son William. Is there an 1871 census available for West Hartlepool? Thank you for your help...Amanda ________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Hello All I hope someone can help me, on the 1851 census I have someone listed as born in Byker Hill in 1785 can anyone tell me what church would have been the local church for this area at the time. many thanks Debbie Wild DUBAI U.A.E. www.wildfamily.info

Hi all, am looking for Dimond/ Diamond / Mc Ardle/McDonough/ McShane / McBretty from the Port Clarence/Cowpen >Bewley area. >Nicholas Dimond married Julia McDonough in 18882. She died at 4, Crosby >Terrace, Port Clarence in 1937. They had a daughter Ann who married >Jacob McArdle; Patrick who married Catherine McBretty; >Ellen Dimond who married Hugh McShane; Thomas Dimond who died as an >infant;Catherine Dimond who died as a small child;Nicholas Dimond who >died as an infant;John Dimond who have no information on. In 1900 when >Nicholas died the name listed was DIAMOND so there may have been a name >change.Would love to hear from anyone with any information on the >family. Many thanks, kathleen > Joe Smithson jksm@earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

In a message dated 23/03/2004 17:52:13 GMT Standard Time, wilds@emirates.net.ae writes: I hope someone can help me, on the 1851 census I have someone listed as born in Byker Hill in 1785 can anyone tell me what church would have been the local church for this area at the time. Debbie: At the time Byker Hill was the extreme eastern end of Newcastle All Saints parish, so that would be the parish church. A Chapelry was founded in 1768, based on St Ann's Church, which was nearer to Byker Hill than was All Saints. However, there are no registers of St Ann's before 1812, and even then they have long gaps in them, where a jealous Vicar of All Saints kept insisting that all baptisms etc were performed at the parish church and none at St Ann's! There are several lengthy notes in the registers to that effect, though successive Curates of St Ann's ignored the Vicar and even the Bishop! As far as you are concerned the C of E parish church, and the best place to seek the baptisms etc, would be All Saints - assuming they were C of E, of course. However, just yards away on the other side of Byker Hill there was the edge of the parish of Longbenton (Township of Walker), so if you are completely stuck you might like to think about that one. I should mention, though, that Longbenton parish church was even further from Byker than was All Saints. Byker Hill, as part of Byker, became built-up with long brick terraces of houses and "Tyneside flats", but in 1785 it would have been quite rural. There was an important coal mine there (I have a facsimile of a miner's bond from it, published in the 1970s in Newcastle University's "Coal from Newcastle" Archive Teaching Unit) and the other local industry was stone quarrying. I have a feeling there was also at least one windmill on the hill-top. It would have been most interesting to have been on Byker Hill in the days before it was built-up, as it would have been possible to see, probably quite clearly, the line of HadrIan's Wall as it came up to the summit of the hill on the east from Wallsend (Segedunum), on the line of the present Fossway, and passed over the top, proceeding westwards along the line of the present Shields Road towards Newcastle (Pons Aelius). There may have been quite a lot of it left in 1785. Geoff Nicholson 57 Manor Park, Concord, WASHINGTON, Tyne & Wear NE37 2BU NBL/DUR family history research in depth by THE local expert. Record searching service: you name the records, I search them!

I have just joined this list. I am searching for information on James NUNN, born Walpole Suffolk in 1855, and his wife Mary Ann (surname unknown) who was born at Hendon, County Durham, about 1859. (Source: 1881 census). They had a daughter Jane Ann NUNN, who was born about December 1880 in Washington, County Durham. (Source: 1881 census, where she was listed as age 4 months). I am trying to find out when and where James and Mary Ann were married and Mary Ann's surname. Any help much appreciated. Mike, in Toronto, Canada

Hi Bev, Yhis is the web-site for "Witton Gilbert" from the "Genuki" site! http://website.lineone.net/~pjoiner/genuki/DUR/WittonGilbert/index.html You didn't give very much info, for anyone to go on except for the surname ! The area of "West Durham" you are researching is a typical mining area, where family's moved on average every two years. On more than one occasion, one of my ansestors gave there place of birth, as the place they rememberd living ! (Not the place they were born) If you have them on the 1881 census it might help to give that info also! There are some Marriages on the site I have given you, for "Chester-le-street" Parish church, which was near to "Witton Gilbert" for the earlier part of the 1800s, if there are no "Dixons" there it could suggest that they might have come from another part of the country! When I come to a dead end, I have found it helpfull to look for the movement of the surname and othere names (maybe a forname might be a little out of the ordanary) in othere areas of the country. I use the "freebmd" web-site! Do you subscribe to "Yorkgenes" mailing list ? YORKSGEN-L@rootsweb.com There is someone searching for the "Dixon" surname at the moment! This is his E-mail address edward.allen1@ntlworld.com Good Luck Carole Robinson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beverley Rittwage" <brittwage@rogers.com> To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: [ENG-DUR] DIXON > Is anyone researching Dixon family name in Durham? I ordered certificate copies of birth from Durham County Council Registration services and they are not for the Dixon family that I am researching. The Dixon's family I am researching, the father was born in Witton Gilbert according to the 1891 census of Durham, village of Evenwood, rural basillory, Auckland, parliamentary division Barony Castle. Could someone please tell me where to find the correct information regarding births, marriages and deaths for that area. Beverley > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > This list is only as good as you make it. Please Participate and help keep it interesting! If you do not like or agree with something on the list then your options are:(1)Simply 'delete' the relevant message(s)(2)'reply to that mail off list to the sender only'(3)unsubscribe' from the list! >

Hi Kay, There are baptisms and marriages, on the "genuki" site for the area of "North Shields" Northumberland, and nearby villages. http://www.swinhope.myby.co.uk/genuki/NBL/Tynemouth/index.html You could try looking there first, to see if you can find them!!! Carole Robinson ----- OriYou could look for the ginal Message ----- From: "Kay JARVIS" <grannykay@tiscali.co.uk> To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 10:29 AM Subject: [ENG-DUR] LICKLEY > Dear List, > > I am new to the list. > > I am looking for the birth of Thomas LICKLEY around 1823 in "Shields". He stated at his marriage that he did not know his father. I'm afraid I do not know whether it is North or South Shields. > > Kay > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > Durham GenWeb Host > http://www.rootsweb.com/~engdur/ >

Hello William Harrison 27, and his family, wife Elizabeth, and children William and Hannah L are shown in the 1881 Harlepool, Durham census. Would a lookup for the 1891 census be available? Thank you for your help...Amanda ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Amanda Harrison <somersetgreen@yahoo.ca> wrote: Hello Would a lookup for the 1891 census be available? Thank you for your help...Amanda Amanda, 1891 Census shows: 102 Durham St. Wm Harrison, Head, age 36 occup. ?? and Rope Dearler Elizabeth, wife, age 36 William, son, age 12 Hannah, daug, age 10 Elizabeth, daug, age 8 Ann, daug, age 5 Pheobe, daug, age 2 Zillish ?, daug, 1 month I hope this is your family. also living with them is Elizabeth's mother, Hannah Charlton age 66. Good hunting...Phyllis....California....USA Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== I.G.I. Family Search http://www.familysearch.org/ Public Record Office U.K http://www.pro.gov.uk Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.

Is there anyone that has researched Schools in England? Does the film contain students names? FHL BRITISH Film 1885385 Items 4-5 Junior and infants' admission registers, 1872-1926 Evenwood C. E. School (Evenwood, Durham) Beverley

Happy Mothers Day to all of you in the U.K. and anywhere else in the world where Sunday is Mothers Day. Thank You to all who have been so kind to research for others, post strays, our wonderful OPC's. and those who contribute their time to the census project and free BMD. Your efforts do not go unnoticed! I just hope I haven't forgotten to thank anyone! Have a wonderful Mothers Day one and all. Sincerely Julie Williamson -- Researching in Cornwall: MADDERN, CHAMPION, STEVENS, HODGE, KEMP and PROVIS Researching in Devon and Cornwall: BEER, LANGSFORD, HUSBAND, SMITH, ASHBY and SQUIRES

Hello list I am researching the family of William H HARRISON and Lottie Louisa JUDSON of West Hartlepool. Lottie was born 1878 to Henry and Ann Elizabeth JUDSON and married William HARRISON in 1904 in Hartlepool. Is it possible to have a marriage lookup for them. I have been trying to find the parents of William with no luck so far. Thank you for your time...Amanda ________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Derek Thanks for the info. Looks a good site! Anthony Oliver Email: anthony.oliveruk@btopenworld.com -----Original Message----- From: Derek Cuthbert [mailto:derek.cuthbert@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 19 March 2004 08:59 To: ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR] South Shields and Jarrow Schools/College Most of the Records for the schools of South Shields are held at the Tyne and Wear Archive at http://www.thenortheast.com/archives/index.html . Goggle turns up a lot of references to South Shields schools, a lot of them with pictures. It depends what you're looking for Derek Cuthbert South Shields ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== Browse the ENG-DURHAM archives http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/eng-durham

Hi this is my Husband Family Tree Most of them were born in Newcastle, Sunderland, Sheffield, South Sheilds, Gateshead and even Scotland I hope that someone might recognised some of the names below At the top of the Tree there is a James or a John Cotrel he was born round about 1784 in England he married a Ann ?. they had 1 Son called Joseph Cotral 1) Joseph Cotral was born on the 16/06/1814 in Sheffield, England, Joseph Cotral married a Catherine Dickinson on the 11/12/1836 in Sunderland, England, Joseph Cottrill died on the 03/10/1889 in Scotland Catherine Dickinson was born on the 01/07/1816 in Sunderland, England, Catherine Cottrill nee: Dickinson died on the 01/07/1890 in Wishaw, Scotland. they had 8 Children, 1A) Mary Anne Cotrell was born on the 04/12/1837 in Sunderland, County Durham, England, Mary Anne Cotrell married a Edward Harper on the 29/10/1855 in Bothwell, Scotland, 2A) Catherine Cotterill was born in 29/11/1843 in Sunderland, County Durham Catherine Cotterill married a Peter Darey on the 19/06/1871 at Wishaw, Scotland, 3A) Jean Cotrell was born in 1849 in Bothwell, Scotland, Jean Cotrell married a Walter Anderson on the 28/05/1869 in Bothwell, Scotland, 4A) Joseph Cotterell was born in 1852 in Bothwell, Scotland Joseph Cotterell married a Isabella Campbell Borthwick on the 23/08/1870 in Gateshead, England, Joseph Cotterell died on the 04/06/1898 at Gateshead, Isabella Campbell Borthwick was born on the 13/03/1854 in Deptford, England, Isabella Campbell Cotterell nee: Borthwick died on the 13/09/1906 in England, 5A) Edward Cotterill married a Jessica Flett on the 04/08/1880 in Gateshead, England, Jessica Cotterill nee: Flett died. Edward Cotterill then remarried to a Isabella Lindsey on the 25/02/1885 in Gateshead, England, 6A) Henry Cotterill married a Jessie Johnson on the 16/08/1880 in Gateshead, England, Jessie Cotterill nee:Johnson died Henry Cotterill then remarried a Alice Jackson on the 08/09/1895 in Gateshead, England, 7A)Thomas Cotrell was born in 28/06/1860 in Bothwell, Scotland, Thomas Cotrell died on the 04/08/1860 in Scotland, 8A) John Coteral was born on the 25/07/1840 in Sunderland, England, John Coteral married a Mary McBride on the 23/12/1864 in Bothwell, Scotland, John Coteral died on the 27/06/1908 in Gateshead, England Mary Coteral nee: McBride died on the 19/12/1903 in Newcastle, England, they had 1 Son called Joseph Cotrell 1B) Joseph Cotrell who was born on the 29/10/1865 in England, Joseph Cotrell married a Matilda Ann Hoddinott on the 24/06/1890 in South Sheilds, England, Joseph Cotrell died on the 07/02/1948 in England Matilda Ann Hoddinott was born on the 14/05/1866 in Newcastle, England, Matilda Ann Cotrell nee: Hoddinott died on the 07/07/1920 in England, they had 9 Children, 1C) Elisa Cotrell, 2C) Mary Cotrell was born on the 07/09/1890 in Gateshead, England 3C) Joseph Cotrell was born on the 19/03/1892 in Gateshead, England, Joseph Cotrell married Eleanor May Pearson on the 27/04/1918 in Gateshead, England, Joseph Cotrell died on the 10/01/1988 in Gateshead, England Eleanor May Pearson was born on the 24/05/1895 in Gateshead, England, Eleanor May Cotrell nee: Pearson died on the 18/07/1970 in Gateshead, England, 4C) John Cotrell was born on the 23/03/1894 in Gateshead, England John Cotrell married a Dorothy Cowe Brotherton on the 22/06/1929 in Gateshead, England, 5C) Thomas William Cotrell was born on the 10/06/1897 in Gateshead, England, Thomas William Cotrell married Lilly and then remarried Gladys Edith Greenwell on the 23/06/1928 in Gateshead, England, Thomas William Cotrell died in 1980 Gladys Edith Cotrell nee: Greenwell died on the 21/06/1972 in Gateshead, England, 6C) Robert Cotrell was born in 1900 in Newcastle, England, Robert Cotrell married Laura Johnson on the 01/07/1928 in England, 7C) Matilda Ann Cotrell was born on the 10/09/1902 in Gateshead, England Matilda Ann Cotrell married Sydney Ernest Smith on the 17/09/1927 in England, Matilda Ann Smith nee: Cotrell died in 1959 8C) Jane Cotrell was born in 1904, Jane Cotrell died on the 24/12/1905 in Newcastle, England, 9C) Frederick Cotrell was born on the 15/07/1908 in Gateshead, England, Frederick Cotrell married a Elsie Emery in England, Frederick Cotrell died on the 16/12/1984 in Gateshead, England, Elsie Emery was born on the 06/08/1910 in Sunderland, England. As you noticed the Cotrell Surname was spelt differently going down the tree, COTRAL COTERAL COTTERRILL COTTERELL, COTTRELL COTTRILL COTRELL and so on. If anyone can help with my Husband Cotrell Family Tree or with any of their Wife's, please contact me, I would like to hear from you. Gina

Most of the Records for the schools of South Shields are held at the Tyne and Wear Archive at http://www.thenortheast.com/archives/index.html . Goggle turns up a lot of references to South Shields schools, a lot of them with pictures. It depends what you're looking for Derek Cuthbert South Shields