Hi Mike :) I have taken the possible listing for John Armstrong's death with a grain of salt, especially after discovering that the one I think IS him was born 2 years earlier than his death certificate states and there's no question it's the same man!! I realise that when they're gone, we only have the closest living relative's knowledge to rely on, so no, I don't "trust" death certificates 100%! :D I firmly believe John and Dorothy's marriage IS out there somewhere, I just don't know where. There are a considerable number of transcriptions available online but they don't cover ALL registrations. This has been my major problem. I have a lovely man in England searching the St. Catherine's Index, which is, I understand, an onerous task since we have no idea WHEN they married. Hopefully he'll find it quickly!! :D I had thought of transcription errors, but you've given me some spelling variations I hadn't thought of in the past, thank you!! :D Armed with these different variations, I'll go and do yet more searching. Let's hope I find them!! :D Take care, Rob. IBSSG Stuttgart, Germany, Honey's Home of Genealogy www.honeyshome.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Wrigley To: 'Robyn Leeds' ; ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 11:07 AM Subject: RE: [ENG-DUR] RE: Marriage indexes Hello again Rob Just to add more of my thoughts on this... It would seem that there are a number of possibilities: 1. Dorothy & John never married. This (however unlikely) needs to be considered a possibility, especially if Dorothy (or John) had married previously. 2. It is very unlikely that a marriage would appear in PRs if there is no marriage certificate found in Civil Registration. 3. The surname WAUGH is also likely to be mistranscribed/misheard in lots of ways, as you can imagine. Have you tried all the possible different spellings? E.g. Wough, Warr, Worr, War etc... 4. Similarly, ARMSTRONG is not without its transcription possibilities/problems. 5. Treat death cert. info with a large pinch of salt. Information on these tends to be that gained from the informant and the Registrar often took it on trust that what was being said was true. Hope this helps Regards Mike >

Hello again Rob Just to add more of my thoughts on this... It would seem that there are a number of possibilities: 1. Dorothy & John never married. This (however unlikely) needs to be considered a possibility, especially if Dorothy (or John) had married previously. 2. It is very unlikely that a marriage would appear in PRs if there is no marriage certificate found in Civil Registration. 3. The surname WAUGH is also likely to be mistranscribed/misheard in lots of ways, as you can imagine. Have you tried all the possible different spellings? E.g. Wough, Warr, Worr, War etc... 4. Similarly, ARMSTRONG is not without its transcription possibilities/problems. 5. Treat death cert. info with a large pinch of salt. Information on these tends to be that gained from the informant and the Registrar often took it on trust that what was being said was true. Hope this helps Regards Mike > > It's been suggested that I check out the baptismal records for Elizabeth > and Thomas (the twins) and see if perhaps there are any Armstrong/Waugh > marriages at the same church just prior to their births. At the moment > that's not an option, I've blown my budget buying certificates so it'll > have to wait. I haven't had any offers of lookups so it's either a > "nasty" job (one which I probably wouldn't want to volunteer for myself > either! ;D) or no one travels in that direction or lives close by. > > I'll find them eventually, it's just so frustrating at the moment not > being able to point somewhere and say "that's where it'll be!"!! > > Take care, > > Rob. > IBSSG > Stuttgart, Germany, > Honey's Home of Genealogy > www.honeyshome.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lynn Karen > To: ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:46 PM > Subject: [ENG-DUR] RE: Marriage indexes > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robyn Leeds [mailto:honey@honeyshome.com] > > > > With her children's births in her maiden name, > > however, it's making it very hard to find her!! > > Is that how the children's birth certificates record Dorothy's name? Do > they have any information about the father recorded? > > Is it possible that Dorothy WAUGH and John ARMSTRONG married some while > _after_ the children were born? Where there later children born after > Elizabeth and Thomas ... and if so do their birth certificates record > their mother's name in any different way? > > I think you said Dorothy died in Australia and that her death > certificate describes her as having been married in Durham. Do you know > when they emigrated from Durham? Could they have left marrying until just > before they left to regularise everything before they went? > > Karen > > > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > ENG-DURHAM list specificaly covers all of County Durham > http://website.lineone.net/~pjoiner/genuki/DUR/parishes.html > > ______________________________

Hello Listers. To anyone researching the surname Hornsby. While on holiday at Beadnall i came across the following memorial inscription on a large rock on the beach. S Hornsby. Easington 1920 D.L.I. Photographs available for any interested parties Albert

Hello Following correspondence on the list re the Durham Records Office, I took a look at the site. I was very interested to see that family photos and documents for Hepple, Wood and Harvey had been deposited, as I have Hepple and Wood ancestors. It would appear that the papers were deposited by the Harvey family, though this is not clear. I would love to hear from anyone with a connection. Angela Shirt

In a message dated 8/6/2004 10:10:04 AM GMT Daylight Time, mwrigley@tiscali.co.uk writes: 2. It is very unlikely that a marriage would appear in PRs if there is no marriage certificate found in Civil Registration. In theory at least, it is simply not possible. Of course, there is always human error! 3. The surname WAUGH is also likely to be mistranscribed/misheard in lots of ways, as you can imagine. Have you tried all the possible different spellings? E.g. Wough, Warr, Worr, War etc... Yes, and remember also that the local (and I would say correct) pronunciation is "Woff", so perhaps you should be looking at that and at possible variants of it, not forgetting the local surname of Woof! Geoff Nicholson

Hello Listers, Would some kind person look up the 1861 Census to see if a Alexander Campbell Shoemaker aged 63 and wife Agnes aged 58 and some of their children maybe still with them? I have put this family from the 1851 census but they were in Wigtown Scotland then, but can not be found and I know their son my 2X Great grandfather Andrew Campbell was married in November 1857 in Hartlepool, Durham. And the whole family could have moved down from Scotland with him? Here are them in 1851 census Name:CAMPBELL, Agnes Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer)(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: wife of Alexander Ca Marital Status: married Occupation: Age: 48 Born: Kirkcolm Wgt Household No: 12/106 Name:CAMPBELL, Alexander Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer)(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: head of household Marital Status: married Occupation: SHOEMAKER Age: 53 Born: Kirkcolm Wgt Household No: 12/106 Name:CAMPBELL, Alexander Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer)(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: son of Alexander Cam Marital Status: unmarried Occupation: SHOEMAKER Age: 16 Born: Kirkcolm Wgt Household No: 12/106 Name:CAMPBELL, Andrew Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer)(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: son of Alexander Cam Marital Status: Occupation: SCHOLAR Age: 14 Born: Kirkcolm Wgt Household No: 12/106 Name:CAMPBELL, Gilbert Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer)(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: son of Alexander Cam Marital Status: Occupation: SCHOLAR Age: 12 Born: Kirkcolm Wgt Household No: 12/106 Name:CAMPBELL, Hugh Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer)(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: son of Alexander Cam Marital Status: Occupation: Age: 4 Born: Stranraer Wgt Household No: 12/106 Name:CAMPBELL, Jean Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer)(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: daughter of Alexande Marital Status: unmarried Occupation: DRESSMAKER Age: 29 Born: Kirkcolm Wgt Household No: 12/106 Name:CAMPBELL, Jessie Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer)(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: daughter of Alexande Marital Status: unmarried Occupation: SEAMSTRESS Age: 24 Born: Kilmarnock Ayrs Household No: 12/106 Name:CAMPBELL, Mary Ann Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer)(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: daughter of Alexande Marital Status: unmarried Occupation: COOK Age: 18 Born: Kirkcolm Wgt Household No: 12/106 Name:CAMPBELL, William Address: London Road, McCulloch Place (within Stranraer )(886) Parish: Inch Relationship: son of Alexander Cam Marital Status: Occupation: SCHOLAR Age: 12 Born: Kirkcolm Wgt Household No: 12/106 Thank you in advance for any information I might receive. Kind Regards Pamela J Groves

Dear Listers I have purchased a birth certificate of my husband's grandfather, Anthony DAWSON who was born in November 1879 in "'Workhouse, Hylton (? Road)". In December 1879 when his mother, Jane DAWSON, registers his birth her address is "Three Horse Shoes Cabin, Hylton.". Could anyone tell me where Hylton is please and any information about her address, - it's such an unusual name. Thanking you Mary Hart Australia mhart@iinet.net.au

Hi Karen :) On Elizabeth's birth certificate (from Durham) it says mother's name is "Dorothy Armstrong, formerly Waugh". On her death certificate it says the same. I've ordered William Edward's birth certificate (her last son) which I'm hoping will arrive either tomorrow, Saturday or Monday if they send it as quickly as they did the death certificate so I'll have to let you know when I receive it. In any case, unless they blatantly lied, they were married prior to the children's births. Dorothy, the twins and John Jr. emigrated to Australia aboard the Empire of Peace which left Liverpool in May 1860 or possibly landed in Australia on that date. There was a possibility that John Sr. stayed in England and was killed in a tragic mining accident in 1861. A John Armstrong was listed as having left a wife Dorothy and 2 children, but I wasn't convinced he was my John. Not long after I was made aware of this information I discovered two further children born in Australia so that rules out John being killed in a mining accident in England. He is listed as father to both children. It's been suggested that I check out the baptismal records for Elizabeth and Thomas (the twins) and see if perhaps there are any Armstrong/Waugh marriages at the same church just prior to their births. At the moment that's not an option, I've blown my budget buying certificates so it'll have to wait. I haven't had any offers of lookups so it's either a "nasty" job (one which I probably wouldn't want to volunteer for myself either! ;D) or no one travels in that direction or lives close by. I'll find them eventually, it's just so frustrating at the moment not being able to point somewhere and say "that's where it'll be!"!! Take care, Rob. IBSSG Stuttgart, Germany, Honey's Home of Genealogy www.honeyshome.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn Karen To: ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:46 PM Subject: [ENG-DUR] RE: Marriage indexes > -----Original Message----- > From: Robyn Leeds [mailto:honey@honeyshome.com] > > With her children's births in her maiden name, > however, it's making it very hard to find her!! Is that how the children's birth certificates record Dorothy's name? Do they have any information about the father recorded? Is it possible that Dorothy WAUGH and John ARMSTRONG married some while _after_ the children were born? Where there later children born after Elizabeth and Thomas ... and if so do their birth certificates record their mother's name in any different way? I think you said Dorothy died in Australia and that her death certificate describes her as having been married in Durham. Do you know when they emigrated from Durham? Could they have left marrying until just before they left to regularise everything before they went? Karen ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== ENG-DURHAM list specificaly covers all of County Durham http://website.lineone.net/~pjoiner/genuki/DUR/parishes.html

> -----Original Message----- > From: Robyn Leeds [mailto:honey@honeyshome.com] > > With her children's births in her maiden name, > however, it's making it very hard to find her!! Is that how the children's birth certificates record Dorothy's name? Do they have any information about the father recorded? Is it possible that Dorothy WAUGH and John ARMSTRONG married some while _after_ the children were born? Where there later children born after Elizabeth and Thomas ... and if so do their birth certificates record their mother's name in any different way? I think you said Dorothy died in Australia and that her death certificate describes her as having been married in Durham. Do you know when they emigrated from Durham? Could they have left marrying until just before they left to regularise everything before they went? Karen

In a message dated 05/08/2004 08:38:49 GMT Daylight Time, mhart@iinet.net.au writes: In December 1879 when his mother, Jane DAWSON, registers his birth her address is "Three Horse Shoes Cabin, Hylton." Could anyone tell me where Hylton is please and any information about her address, it's such an unusual name. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the 1881 census the entry for 'Three Horse Shoes Inn' Hylton is next to that for the 'Railway Gate Cabin' occupied by Thomas Dawson, 50, (Gatekeeper) Elizabeth Dawson, 51, and Jane Dawson, 22, unmarried, there is no entry for Anthony Dawson. The Railway Gate Cabin will be the railway crossing keeper's house for the 'Hylton, Southwick, and Monkwearmouth' line of 1876 which linked to the former Pontop and South Shields line near Washington. It was purely a freight line with a goods station at Southwick and sidings at Castletown and North Hylton. Never a financial success it was acquired in 1883 by The North Eastern Railway. Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

In a message dated 8/5/2004 8:38:49 AM GMT Daylight Time, mhart@iinet.net.au writes: I have purchased a birth certificate of my husband's grandfather, Anthony DAWSON who was born in November 1879 in "'Workhouse, Hylton (? Road)". In December 1879 when his mother, Jane DAWSON, registers his birth her address is "Three Horse Shoes Cabin, Hylton.". Could anyone tell me where Hylton is please and any information about her address, - it's such an unusual name. Mary: There are two Hyltons (sometimes spelled Hilton). They face each other across the River Wear, just west of Sunderland and are called North Hylton and South Hylton. At one time (now now) they were connected by the Hylton Ferry. Probably North Hylton was the original as it is near to that where Hylton Castle, the mediaeval home of the Hylton family, now a ruin, is situated. When large-scale industry came to the district, it arrived at both North and South Hylton, but it was South Hylton which grew largest, and which is still much the larger of the two places today. The Workhouse in Hylton Road was in Sunderland: Hylton Road runs west from the centre of Sunderland towards South Hylton. South Hylton was originally part of the parish of Bishopwearmouth but eventually became a parish of its own. North Hylton was part of Monkwearmouth parish but later became part of Southwick parish and probably eventually part of Castletown parish. I don't know of "Three Horse Shoes Cabin" but nearby to North Hylton, on land originally part of Usworth Township of Washington parish and later in Usworth parish, there is a pub called the "Three Horse Shoes". The land opposite it, also in Usworth, was used as an RAF base during both World Wars and then became "Sunderland Airport" until that closed in the 1960s and it is now the site of a huge Nissan car factory. The pub and the factory are on either side of a road which is now a backwater but was originally the main road from Washington to Monkwearmouth via Hylton Castle and Southwick. Next to it is the NE Air Museum. Geoff Nicholson

Hi Mike :) "Check out the Durham Registration Dept, which has most County Durham Civil Registration marriages (and certainly covers Benfieldside):" We've tried every possible site on the net that lists marriages for Durham areas and so far we've found nothing! :( A lot of sites haven't got complete records or she simply isn't showing up. I've thought in the past that perhaps she married once before and used her married name and Susan has suggested the same thing, so perhaps this is why we're not finding her. With her children's births in her maiden name, however, it's making it very hard to find her!! The only way I can think of to find her is to search the actual parish registers, particularly where Elizabeth and Thomas were baptised, and see if she appears under a different surname. I don't know how hard or easy that will be but if it's a hard job to do I simply can't afford to pay a researcher to do it for me! I guess this is one marriage I'm not going to find, which means I have no way of going back any further with John Armstrong!! :((( Thanks for your help Mike, I'll definitely keep trying this and other sites in the hope that one day all the records will be online and I'll find her! :D Take care, Rob.

Hi Rob I've checked the indexes on 1837 online from jan 1840 - dec 1950 but there is only one Dorothy Roper Waugh listed in Wigton 2nd qtr 1842. I cross checked for the dates but there was no matching Armstrong. I think you mentioned that Dorothy was about 27 when she had her children. Perhaps she was married previously to someone else and then married Armstrong. Her first married name would be on the marriage certificate to Armstrong but she may not have thought about mentioning it to the registrar when the children's births were registered and jnust gave her maiden name. DOROTHY ROPER WAUGH Female Parents: Father: WILLIAM Marriages: Spouse: JOHN LITTLE HARRIS Marriage: 02 APR 1842 Holme Cultram, Cumberland, England Husband Age at Marriage: 22 Wife Age at Marriage: 22 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- Source Information: Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type: M006182 1581 - 1862 942.8 B4CW V.34 Book 6904735 Film M006182 1581 - 1862 0090629, 0090630 Film NONE Sheet: 00 This is an extracted record so it should be reasonably accurate. Notice how the ages tally with Dorothy being 27/28 in 1848? It may give you another direction to try. Best wishes Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robyn Leeds" <honey@honeyshome.com> To: <ENG-DURHAM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 5:33 PM Subject: [ENG-DUR] Marriage indexes > Hi everyone :) > > I've recently come into a mountain load of information regarding my Armstrong, Waugh and Bynon lines in Australia, so I'm on a roll at the moment. Combined with all the information I received both from this list and the NBL list, I'm making great headway. A HUGE thank you to you all for your help so far!! :D > > I still haven't been able to find Dorothy WAUGH and John ARMSTRONG's marriage. According to Dorothy's death certificate from Australia, they were married in Durham. Their first children (Elizabeth and Thomas, twins) were born in May 1848 in Benfieldside, Durham Northern, which you probably all remember. It's my guess Dorothy and John were married somewhere close to Benfieldside, although where is a mystery. > > I know there are various marriage indexes transcribed by various people and/or organisations, but they all seem only to cover up to 1837. Does anyone know of any that cover up to 1850 for Co Durham please? > > It's also a distinct possibility they were married in the same church Elizabeth and Thomas were baptised at, is anyone able to do a lookup there for me please? I'm at my wits' end trying to figure out how to find their marriage and with limited income I don't have many options! :( > > Take care, > > Rob. > IBSSG > Stuttgart, Germany, > Honey's Home of Genealogy > www.honeyshome.com > > > > ==== ENG-DURHAM Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe send the command unsubscribe to > ENG-DURHAM-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) > or ENG-DURHAM-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) >

Hi Rob Check out the Durham Registration Dept, which has most County Durham Civil Registration marriages (and certainly covers Benfieldside): http://www.durham.gov.uk/DurhamCC/usp.nsf/pws/Registrar+-+purchase+of+regist ration+certificates Regards Mike _________________________________________________ I use LEGACY Family History software. This highly acclaimed genealogy program can be downloaded FREE at http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Index.asp?mid=3AEDrIi > I still haven't been able to find Dorothy WAUGH and John ARMSTRONG's > marriage. According to Dorothy's death certificate from Australia, they > were married in Durham. Their first children (Elizabeth and Thomas, > twins) were born in May 1848 in Benfieldside, Durham Northern, which you > probably all remember. It's my guess Dorothy and John were married > somewhere close to Benfieldside, although where is a mystery. > > I know there are various marriage indexes transcribed by various people > and/or organisations, but they all seem only to cover up to 1837. Does > anyone know of any that cover up to 1850 for Co Durham please? > > It's also a distinct possibility they were married in the same church > Elizabeth and Thomas were baptised at, is anyone able to do a lookup there > for me please? I'm at my wits' end trying to figure out how to find their > marriage and with limited income I don't have many options! :( > > Take care, > > Rob. > IBSSG > Stuttgart, Germany, > Honey's Home of Genealogy > www.honeyshome.com

As can be seen from my signature, I live in Lower Normandy in northern France, within an hour's drive of the CWG Bayeux and other cemeteries, and the US cemetery at Pointe du Hoc. If anyone would like a digital photograph and can provide the relevant details (which cemetery, plot, row and grave number - or inscription panel if only a memorial) I'll take one whenever I am in the right area. Details of individual burials and memorials in Commonwealth War Cemeteries, and cemetery locations, may be found at www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/search aspx. Ruth Appleby Basse Normandie, France La.Retraite@tiscali.fr

Hi everyone :) I've recently come into a mountain load of information regarding my Armstrong, Waugh and Bynon lines in Australia, so I'm on a roll at the moment. Combined with all the information I received both from this list and the NBL list, I'm making great headway. A HUGE thank you to you all for your help so far!! :D I still haven't been able to find Dorothy WAUGH and John ARMSTRONG's marriage. According to Dorothy's death certificate from Australia, they were married in Durham. Their first children (Elizabeth and Thomas, twins) were born in May 1848 in Benfieldside, Durham Northern, which you probably all remember. It's my guess Dorothy and John were married somewhere close to Benfieldside, although where is a mystery. I know there are various marriage indexes transcribed by various people and/or organisations, but they all seem only to cover up to 1837. Does anyone know of any that cover up to 1850 for Co Durham please? It's also a distinct possibility they were married in the same church Elizabeth and Thomas were baptised at, is anyone able to do a lookup there for me please? I'm at my wits' end trying to figure out how to find their marriage and with limited income I don't have many options! :( Take care, Rob. IBSSG Stuttgart, Germany, Honey's Home of Genealogy www.honeyshome.com

Thank you everyone who helped to identify the parish church and "Fold Yard" most appreciated. Stacey

I am looking for a SKS who can scan the following images for me so that I can see who these people were and where they lived. Samuel Gale age 22 place of birth Darlington DUR Piece/Folio 282/221 Enumerated at Darlington St.John DUR Robert Gale age 28 place of birth Snape, Yks Piece/Folio 2382/219 enumerated at Darlington St. John Sarah Gale (w) age 30 place of birth Darlington Thomas Gale (son) age 2 Place of birth Darlington. Looking at the two folio numbers it would appear that they lived very close to each other. I appreciate any help. Thank you Pat Futoran California USA

In a message dated 02/08/2004 21:51:34 GMT Daylight Time, stacey.gardner3@btopenworld.com writes: Also the residence of both people is given but writing is hard to read could it be "Fold Yard" or "Fold Gard" any ideas would be appreciated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. I have looked at the details for the 1851 Census, and in Folios 195 to 241, Fold Yard is listed near Dun Cow Street. Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

----- Original Message ----- From: stacey gardner To: ENG-DURAM-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:19 PM Subject: Bishopwearmouth I am hoping someone will be able to help me, I have just received a marriage certificate and the couple were married in the parish church in the parish of Bishop Wearmouth, Durham, registration district Sunderland, in 1849 could someone please tell me the name of this church. Also the residence of both people is given but writing is hard to read could it be "Fold Yard" or "Fold Gard" any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you Stacey