Could this be them? Transcribed on Ancestry as Wertgart. RG104959, folio 18, Page 31 1871 Greencroft, William Westgarth, head, 48, Mason, Durham, Lanchester Ann, wife, 42, Lanchester George, son, 18, Labourer, Durham, Lanchester Mary, daur, 16, Durham, Lanchester Thomas, son, 12, Durham, Lanchester William, son, 4, Durham, Lanchester Elizabeth, daur, 11m, Durham, Lanchester In 1861, transcribed as West Garth. RG9 37733 Folio 51 Page 8. Greencroft, William, head, 38, stone mason, Hill Top, Northumberland Ann, wife, 36, Dipton, Durham George, son, 8, Greencroft Mary, daur, 6, Greencroft Thomas, son, 3, Greencroft Magdalene, daur, 1, Greencroft Jo :) http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/jo14 I use Archive CD Books to do my family history research http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/index.php?referrerid=18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Hasler" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] HELP WANTED > Hi > I have a > WILLIAM WESTGARTH > D.O.B. ABT 1822 SHOTLEY > Married to ANN D.O.B. ABT 1829 no more information on her or where they > married. > Parents of WILLIAM are > JOSEPH D.O.B. 25 FEB 1798 > MARY LEADBITTER ABT 1798 > He is on the 1841 census with his parents > I can find him on the 1851 1881 1891 1901 census > He does not appear on the 1861 1871 census I have tried every way to find > him. > Really need the 1861 and 1871 census to confirm the information I have on > the children he had. > Thank you for any help. > Jan > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi I have a WILLIAM WESTGARTH D.O.B. ABT 1822 SHOTLEY Married to ANN D.O.B. ABT 1829 no more information on her or where they married. Parents of WILLIAM are JOSEPH D.O.B. 25 FEB 1798 MARY LEADBITTER ABT 1798 He is on the 1841 census with his parents I can find him on the 1851 1881 1891 1901 census He does not appear on the 1861 1871 census I have tried every way to find him. Really need the 1861 and 1871 census to confirm the information I have on the children he had. Thank you for any help. Jan

Hi, Meegan I think you will find that the Number "27" is not the address of the property, but is the Schedule No. Togston of course being the village. It is common in small villages for the enumerator not to record addresses. Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris & Meegan Ferguson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 8:13 AM Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] 1851 census Togston > Hi there > Could someone please do a look-up for the 1851 census? I have a page form > Ancestry but no address other than 27 Togston! Have looked and see that > Togston was in Northumberland but not that it really was a mine area in > 1851 > > Looking for Robert Musgrave and family - Pheby, Mathew, Robert, Elizabeth, > Mary Ann, Phoebe and Sarah please. He was a coal miner. I can't see them > in > the 1851 census for Durham or Northumberland in The Genealogist website > which I have access to > > Thanks so much > Meegan > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

>Meegan looking for Musgrave family on Census 1851. Meegan, The Musgraves as listed by you (plus 6 yr old John Josuha) were on 1851 census page 2419-129-8. You already had the Schedule Number, 27 ( i.e. the Musgaves the 27th household in that census enumeration district, ) You should consider that at the time, there maybe did not exist a more specific address than just "Togston" You wrote suggesting that Togston was not a mine area in 1851. But even in that small enumeration there were at least two coal mines ! Michael Dixon

Hi I wonder if anyone could help me I have a JOHN JOSEPH WESTGARTH D.O.B. ABT 1866 CONSETT PARENTS JOSEPH WESTGARTH D.O.B 17 JULY 1834 MEDOMSLEY MARGARET SIDDELL D.O.B. ABT 1838 BISHOPWEARMOUTH I can find him on the 1871 & 1881 census but I cannot find him on the 1891 census.I believe I may of located him again on the 1901 census But I need help with the 1891 census to find him any help much appreciated. Jan

This should be an informative web site when launched. It might be worthwhile book marking it. http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/launch_info.php Marie  

I am interested in the marriage record for: Thomas Anderson Burrell was born 13 of May 1854, probably Gateshead England, married at Auckland,County Durham in the summer of 1876 to Ann Potter born 17 Sept 1860 Would someone be able to help me? Thanks so much, Shannon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.8/973 - Release Date: 25/08/2007 5:00 PM

Hi Everyone, Just wondering if there might be a relative out there of Patrick McDermott who was married to Nora Rennison in the year June 1902. I believe they had a still born child named Norah in 1916. They both were born in Houghton Le Spring, Co. Durham. He was born in 1880 and she was born in 1881 as far as I can see. His father was also Patrick McDermott married to Catherine Goodman. Hoping Isabel Love B.C.

Does anyone have a book entitled "From 6 North Country Diaries, by John Crawford Hodgson" In it, it refers to Jacob Grieve. All I have is an excerpt "1749 Oct 16. Jacob Grieve, Attorney-at-law, married to Miss Jenny Bowes, 2nd dtr of Thomas Bowes, Esq, of Bradley Hall 1750 Sept. About the beginning of this month, Jacob Grieve, Attorney-at-law, dismissed Jane, his wife, the youngest of two daughters of Thoams Bowes, Esq, of Bradley. He had detected her of --- (something about Benjamin Gray) ..." And I would love to know what else it says. I got this off Google Books. Regards Jackie

In a message dated 29/08/2007 17:55:42 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Can someone tell me if Raby, and Strathclyde are cities in the County of Durham? _________________________________________________________________ Hi Jacob L. Bateman III, Strathclyde was originally an ancient kingdom of the Britons with its capital at Dumbarton and was brought into the Kingdom of Scotland in the early 11th century by Duncan I. The word was not revived until after WW2, and in 1975 the massive new Strathclyde region was created which incorporated Glasgow, Renfrewshire, Lanarkshire, Buteshire, Dunbartonshire, and parts of Argyll, Ayrshire and Stirlingshire. The region was abolished in 1996. A Cathedral is a church which contains the cathedra, or throne, of the bishop of a Diocese, and Staindrop is a village in the diocese of Durham, which was founded in 995, with the cathedral in the city of Durham. There can be no other cathedrals in a diocese. Stan

In a message dated 29/08/2007 17:55:42 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Can someone tell me if Raby, and Strathclyde are cities in the County of Durham? An ancestor of mine was regent of Strathclyde while his brother was King of Scotland. Also where is Staindrop Cathedral? _____________________________________________________________ There was only one city in County Durham until modern times, and that is the city of Durham itself. There is no such cathedral as Staindrop, where Raby Castle is located. Strathclyde is in Scotland and not County Durham See http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=2778&st=staindrop http://www.visionofbritain.org .uk/descriptions/entry_page.jsp?text_id=805420&word=NULL Stan

Hello Ann It isn't unusual for a son or other family member to be the informant at a death rather than the spouse, as the spouse is usually too upset to go to the office and if she was the wife rather than the widow, then he should be somewhere I have looked on the 1891 in both England and Scotland, but haven't found him There is a Mark Cagins born Millom, CUL in the 1901 with daughter Emma Ann Petterson and Joseph and family RG 13 piece 2537 folio 69 page 25 Heather [email protected] wrote: > Dear Heather - > Martha Casson's death certificate says she was the 'wife of Mark > Casson, farm labourer', but in attendance was their son, James > Casson. Where was Mark? > > Ann Lavery

Can someone tell me if Raby, and Strathclyde are cities in the County of Durham? An ancestor of mine was regent of Strathclyde while his brother was King of Scotland. Also where is Staindrop Cathedral? Thank you Jacob L. Bateman III

Dear all I wondered if any sleuths out there had any fresh ideas? I am looking for my reputed great grandfather, Henry Fenwick MALVIN b1851 Seaham Harbour Durham, after 1871 when he seemingly disappears I have long been researching my MALVIN family who in the main were earlier found in the Easington area Alice RAMSAY b1789 Ponteland, married Jacob MALVIN in 1817, Jacob died in 1819 aged 26 Alice MALVIN then had a liaison with a Robert WILKINSON, they had two sons, Robert MALVIN b1820 and Mark MALVIN in 1825 (Robert WILKINSON is given as father on both baptisms) Mark b1825 married Isabella FENWICK b1825 Dalton le Dale, in 1848 in the Parish Church of Monk Hesledon They had four children Henry Fenwick b1848 d1850 Robert b1850 d1901 Henry Fenwick b1851 Mark b1855 d1942 My grandfather Harry Malvin OVINGTON was born in Middlesbrough 1874 to Jane Ann OVINGTON it has been passed down that the father was a Henry Fenwick MALVIN (no mention of a father on my grandfathers baptism) I can follow Henry Fenwick MALVIN until 1871 where he is living at Stainton Grange with his parents, no sign thereafter (I have checked BMD and anything else I can lay my hands on) Robert is also in Stainton I find Mark b1855 in 1871 at 67 Marton Rd Middlesbrough (Jane Ann OVINGTON was born in Middlesbrough and lived there in 1871) Could this be a case of Mark using his brothers name for his nefarious deeds? Or did Henry Fenwick get whisked away by the martians? In my grandfathers letters there is mention of meetings with Mark in later years (mentioned as Uncle Mark) my grandfather also gives an ambiguous mention in a letter to my father "I told you of the manner of my fathers death" (but no earlier letter survives) I can trace Mark until his death in 1942 Scarborough and was a Doctor there for many years I have Marks will, and that of his father (also Mark) plus Mark snrs widow (2nd wife) in 1929. None of which mention a connection to my grandfather in any way. Harry M OVINGTON later trains as a Clergyman at Queens College Birmingham (I have Crockfords for his career until 1920 when he converted to Catholicism) Any thoughts as to new avenues gratefully received, or sightings post 1871 of one elusive Henry Fenwick MALVIN Best wishes Nivard Ovington, in Cornwall (UK)

In a message dated 28/08/2007 20:54:11 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Clearly not servants!!!!!!!!! I never actually suggested that any of the Bowes family were servants. Rather, I assumed (never a good thing to do) that with their centuries as one of the major "county" families of Co Durham, and with the Bowes-Lyon's more recent Royal connections, their standing as gentry/aristocracy would be well-known to everyone researching in the county. It was the Grieves family who seemed obscure enough to be either servants or else tenant farmers. My experience in these matters (over 60 years of local knowledge, plus over 30 years involved in running the NDFHS plus a further 30 years as a professional genelaogist, the last 17 of them full-time) still leads me to believe that is the likely explanation, although further evidence is, of course, needed. While negative evidence may be less than satisfactory, I would have thought that the absence of any large number of suitable Grieve references in the County Record Office's very large catalogue would be a sufficiently strong hint that here we have a family that has not made any great mark on the history of Co Durham. Geoff Nicholson

Thank you to Pat for finding the Ladimir family in the 1871 census. Karen

Would SKS please do a look up of the name Caroline Ladimer in the 1871 census? Caroline was born in Hamburg Germany about 1854. I have found her in the 1881 census [Ladimir] living in Middlesex age 27years working as a cook. I don't know when she left Germany and am hoping she maybe in the 1871 census living with her parents and siblings. On her marriage certificate it says her Father was Morris and he was a Ship broker. Thank you Karen

This is a general query although the action took place in CUL! I have been puzzling for a number of years as to the demise of my Great Grandfather. He was alive in 1881 and cannot be found in 1891. His wife died in '83, and his children married in 1887 and 1888. Neither of his children's marriage certificate records him as being deceased. His daughter's marriage certificate records that she had 'lately' lived in Greysouthern, CUL - (which was where the whole family was in 81), but she now lived in Workington. I have been through the indexes a number of times looking for all the spellings I can think of for Mark CASSON. I have asked the registrar at Cockermouth to check the deaths for the period 81 - 88. I have checked the parish burials for Brigham, (Greysouthern's church), and Workington. No luck. I don't think he would have emigrated - I have looked at Immigrants lists to AUS, USA, Canad - and can find nothing at all. I think I have exhausted all the avenuse - can anyone think of any stone left unturned? Where are the deaths of unnamed people recored - bodies washed up, vagrants found dead in a ditch -etc ?? Has anyone any more ideas please? Ann Lavery

Jackie: I strongly suspect that parts, at least, of your story have been romanticised or exaggerated in the telling and re-telling, as often does happen. I don't know enough to comment on the Bowes of Bradley connection, though I would point out that it would have had to have been Bradley near Wolsingham, and NOT Bradley near Crawcrook, nor Bradley near Leadgate. I have never heard of "Great House" at Great Lumley. It is the sort of name that might be used colloquially (though even then it doesn't ring true for this region). Of course, the "greatest" - ie the largest and most magnificent - house connected with Lumley has to be Lumley Castle, but that, now a Hotel, belongs to the Lumley family, Earls of Scarborough, who have had the estate since before the Norman Conquest. You mention Gibside. That is another major estate, near Rowlands Gill, towards the NW corner of the old Co Durham. It originally (13th century) belonged to the Marleys of Marley Hill, then it was inherited from them by the Blakiston family, passing from them by marriage to the Bowes-Lyon family, descendants of the main line of the Co Durham Bowes family of Streatlam. The Bowes-Lyons are Earls of Strathmore and Kinghorn and the late Queen Mother was a daughter of one of the later Earls. Some time ago the Earl of Strathmore gave Gibside to the National Trust, who are the current owners. Gibside has never been in the ownership of anyone named Grieve. Highfriars is most familiar to local people as the name of a street (High Friar Street) in Newcastle, named after the Friars of a pre-reformation monastery in Pilgrim Street, and leading from there towards St Andrew's church, passing originally just within the northern stretch of the Town Wall. It was cut into two pieces by the Grainger/Dobson improvements of the mid-nineteenth century, around Grey's Monument, and the largest (western) piece was obliterated in the early 1970s by the Eldon Square shopping centre, within which one Mall is still called "High Friars". However, if we are thinking of the district around Gibside we have to think in terms of Friarside, a much smaller estate, adjacent and to the west of that of Gibside and next to the River Derwent. There is, indeed a High Friarside and a Low Friarside, the latter including the ruined remains of a small chapel, the home of the mediaeval Friar(s) after whom it was named. One of the Friars there must have been named John and known as Jock (was he Scottish, I wonder?), because the place is sometimes called in old documents, Friarjohnside or even Friarjockside. I wonder whether what we might have is a family who worked as servants, or perhaps as tenant farmers at these grand houses or on their estates, in turn. I have come across lots of cases where servants have become "owners" as stories about them have gradually become embellished. I can only give you the standard advice, set out in all reputable family history text-books - "work step by step from the known into the unknown, always keeping an open mind and never making any assumptions not backed up by reference to original documents". Geoff Nicholson In a message dated 28/08/2007 08:54:50 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Am looking for a birth date and any information for Jacob Grieve of Durham. He was an attorney-at-law and he married Jane Bowes, daughter of Thomas Bowes esquire of Bradley Hall. Also they had a daughter Elizabeth Mary Grieve who was christened on 19 Sept 1759 and who in turn married Robert Taylor. Any information regarding Elizabeth and Robert also appreciated. I do know that Robert was a divinity student but was never fully ordained as when his father, Anthony, died and Robert had to give up the church and look after the family estate. According to a letter written by their great great granddaughter Robert the family estate was the Great House, Great Lumley. They had 10 children who grew up in this house, the house of which I can find no history. Also, Elizabeth M Grieve was orphaned early but was left by her mother two estates named Gibside and Highfriars. Now, I can find Gibside, but I cannot find Highfriars. Any takers on this?