Hi Listers! I am looking up the family of Joseph Porthouse, who was born on Nov 20, 1895, in Gateshead, Durham. He was the child of Archibald Porthouse, and his wife Jane. Siblings were Mary A. in 1891, Elizabeth in 1893, and then Joseph in 1895. A younger sister Margaret followed in 1897. I am looking for descendants of the Joseph Porthouse, born 1895. He had children from his first marriage, also yet another Joseph Porthouse, who lived in the Newcastle and Gateshead area. A daughter, Joyce, married John Haralson,and lived in Virginia Beach, USA. There was also a daughter, named Doris, who may have married a Mr. Fox. Jospeph Porthouse was married to my great-grandmother, Margaret Morris Matthews (first marriage) Cain (second marriage) in their older years, year not known. He died age 91, in 1987. Seeking any family photos of the Cain side. Will provide family with Porthouse photos in return. Janet Hopkins, in Canada

Came across this site, apologies if it has been posted before http://www.bbc.co.uk/nationonfilm/topics/coal-mining/ Stan

Hi I am searching for the 1891 census for a GEORGE WESTGARTH D.O.B. ABT 1853 born in BRANDON/CONSIDE married to a ELIZABETH THOMPSON D.O.B. ABT 1855 born in KYO GEORGE`S parents were JOSEPH WESTGARTH & MARY LEADBITTER I can find the 1881 census for him and the 1901 census I have tried every way I know to find him on the 1891 but no luck. Any help you can give me will be much appreciated. Jan

In message <[email protected]>, Adrian Parry <[email protected]> writes >Sarah NICHOLSON, daughter of Richard and Elizabeth, was baptised in >Houghton le Spring on 25 December 1831. > >At some stage she moved to London. By 1863, when she married Erastus >LUSCOMBE, she had moved to Devon. > >I have previously searched for her and her husband in the census >returns from 1871 onwards without success. They both appear to have >totally disappeared! > >Adrian > Hi again, Looks like she remarried, from Durham registrars online index <http://www.durham.gov.uk/gro/newgro.nsf/search?open&C0785412160916092007 $> LUSCOMBE Sarah 1882 Durham Central GRAHAM James 1882 Durham Central NICHOLSON Sarah 1882 Durham Central LATCHAM Sarah 1882 Durham Central Possibly them in 1891: Sarah Graham Age: 59 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: James Gender: Female Where born: Edmonddy, Durham, England Civil Parish: Willington Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen County/Island: Durham Country: England Street address: 1 Tyne St. Willington, DUR Registration district: Durham Sub-registration district: St Oswald ED, institution, or vessel: 52 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age James Graham 59 Sarah Graham 59 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4102; Folio 74; Page 19; GSU roll: 6099212. 1881 could she have reverted to the name NICHOLSON?? Dwelling: Railway Terrace Edmondsley Census Place: Edmondsley, Durham, England Source: FHL Film 1342198 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 4980 Folio 77 Page 36 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Richard NICHOLSON U 35 M Easington Lane, Durham, England Rel: Head Occ: Colliery Engineman Sarah NICHOLSON U 50 F Easington Lane, Durham, England Rel: Sister Occ: Dress Maker I checked the image on Ancestry, and she is listed as Unmarried, but everything else seems to fit. -- Helen Oram

1861 census High Moorsley is not far from Hetton le Hole Sarah Nicholson Age: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: High Moseley, Durham, England Civil Parish: Newton Ecclesiastical parish: Middlewich County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Street address: Villa near Wallercroft?, Newton. Occupation:servant Condition as to marriage: single Registration district: Northwich Sub-registration district: Middlewich ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Household schedule number: 92 Household Members: Name Age Charles F Barker 44 head, solicitor Chas F Barker 10 Emma R Barker 46 Francis P Barker 7 Harriet Dale 19 Sarah Nicholson 27 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2607; Folio: 26; Page: 14; GSU roll: 542998. -- Helen Oram

In message <[email protected]>, Adrian Parry <[email protected]> writes >Sarah NICHOLSON, daughter of Richard and Elizabeth, was baptised in >Houghton le Spring on 25 December 1831. > >At some stage she moved to London. By 1863, when she married Erastus >LUSCOMBE, she had moved to Devon. > > >I have previously searched for her and her husband in the census >returns from 1871 onwards without success. They both appear to have >totally disappeared! > >Adrian > > Hi Adrian 1841 - a discrepancy with the age, but the parents have the right names Sarah Nicholson Age: 5 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836 Gender: Female Where born: Durham, England Civil Parish: Houghton Le Spring Hundred: Easington (North Division) County/Island: Durham Country: England Front Street, Easington Lane, Hetton le Hole, DUR Registration district: Houghton le Spring Sub-registration district: Hetton le Hole Household Members: Name Age Caroline Nicholson 1 Eleanor Nicholson 3 Elizabeth Nicholson 45 Elizabeth Nicholson 15 Jane Nicholson 10 Joseph Nicholson 20 Mary Nicholson 4 Richd Nicholson 45 pitman Sarah Nicholson 5 All born in Co. DUR Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 312; Book: 9; Civil Parish: Houghton Le Spring; County: Durham; Enumeration District: 3; Folio: 8; Page: 11; Line: 1; GSU roll: 241354. 1851 Sarah Nicholson Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Easington Lane, Durham, England Civil Parish: Crossgate County/Island: Durham Country: England Street address: South Street, Crossgate , Durham Occupation:servant Condition as to marriage:single Registration district: Durham(Street Indexed) Sub-registration district: St Oswald ED, institution, or vessel: 9b Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 92 Household Members: Name Age Sarah Nicholson 20 Rebecca Sutherland 56 book seller/stationer Robert Sutherland 35 auctioneer Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2390; Folio: 151; Page: 26; GSU roll: 87068. 1871 [Sarah Nicholson] Age: 39 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Richard Gender: Female Where born: Felton, Durham, England Civil Parish: Edmondsley Ecclesiastical parish: Sacriston Town: Edmondsley County/Island: Durham Country: England Street address: 3 Pit Houses, Edmondsley Registration district: Chester Le Street Sub-registration district: Chester le Street ED, institution, or vessel: 14 Household schedule number: 50 Household Members: Name Age Sarah Luscombe 39 mar dau DUR Hetton Elizabeth Nicholson 71 wife DUR Wolsingham Richard Nicholson 77 head coal miner DUR Leadgate Richard Nicholson 25 son DUR Hetton colliery engineman Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4990; Folio: 54; Page: 9; GSU roll: 847437. Regards, -- Helen Oram

>Westgarth family on C1891 ? Jan, George/Elizabeth and family are on C1891 in Annfield Place, Collierly (4088-62-8) Michael Dixon Newcastle

Sarah NICHOLSON, daughter of Richard and Elizabeth, was baptised in Houghton le Spring on 25 December 1831. At some stage she moved to London. By 1863, when she married Erastus LUSCOMBE, she had moved to Devon. My membership of Ancestry has expired, and I would very much appreciate details of her from the various census returns from 1841 to 1861. Can anyone help me, please? I have previously searched for her and her husband in the census returns from 1871 onwards without success. They both appear to have totally disappeared! Adrian

Thank you Ann and Geoff . I will follow up your information. . Max Procter Drysdale Victoria Australia

Adrian, My index also has the same information: Houghton Le Spring St. Michael and All Angels Sarah Nicholson baptised Christmas Day 1831, she probably has a sister Jane baptised 21 Jan 1827. Janis

Sarah, daughter of Richard NICHOLSON, was born in Houghton le Spring c 1831-32 (based on her marriage certificate and the 1851 census). A patron's submission within the IGI quotes a baptism date of 25 December 1831. I would apprrciate confirmation, or otherwise, that this entry appears in the parish register. Can anyone help me, please? Adrian

In a message dated 14/09/2007 22:19:27 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I am trying to locate the 1891 census for a JOHN JOSEPH WESTGARTH D.O.B. ABT 1866 in CONSETT Married to a MARY ANN D.O.B. ABT 1870 His parents were JOSEPH WESTGARTH D.O.B. 17 JULY 1834 MEDOMSLEY MARGARET SIDDELL D.O.B. ABT 1833 BISHOPWEARMOUTH I can find him on the 1871 & 1881 but not on the 1891 any help would be much appreciated. Jan. What was his occupation? There is a John T Westgarth , married to a Mary E, shown as born in Weardale, which is close to Consett. He is a coal miner. could he (allowing for spelling mistakes) be the one? -- Mike Stone - Peterborough, England For the strength of the Hills we bless, thee, Our God, our fathers' God. Thou hast made thy children mighty, By the touch of the mountain sod. Thou hast led thy chosen Israel, To freedom's last abode. For the strength of the hills we bless, thee, Our God, our fathers' God. (Hymns of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; No 35)

Hi I am trying to locate the 1891 census for a JOHN JOSEPH WESTGARTH D.O.B. ABT 1866 in CONSETT Married to a MARY ANN D.O.B. ABT 1870 His parents were JOSEPH WESTGARTH D.O.B. 17 JULY 1834 MEDOMSLEY MARGARET SIDDELL D.O.B. ABT 1833 BISHOPWEARMOUTH I can find him on the 1871 & 1881 but not on the 1891 any help would be much appreciated. Jan.

In a message dated 13/09/2007 02:50:05 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: It is believed that he was born at Lumley Castle, County Durham in 1793 and that his parents were John Cole and Eliza nee James, who were presumably servants or tenant farmers at the castle. Max: From the IGI (1992 microfiche edition) of Co Durham I see that the only George Ward Cole they list was baptised at Bishopwearmouth in 1796. From the H M Wood transcript (microfiche edition, published by Northfiche) I also see that the entry in Bishopwearmouth parish register reads: 1796 July 20 George Ward, s of John & Eliza Cole, born 15 Nov 1793, Wearmouth From a comparison with other entries around that period, it becomes apparent that "Wearmouth" means that the parents were living in [Biship]Wearmouth in 1796, and not that George Ward Cole had necessarily been born there in 1793, so he could have been born at Lumley Castle. Lumley Castle was, at the time, within the parish of Chester le Street. All baptisms from Chester le Street around that time are also included on the IGI, as are those from almost all local parishes. The main exception is Penshaw, which lies between Chester le Street and Bishopwearmouth! However, we can be reasonably certain that this is indeed your George Ward Cole, especially as that is hardly a common combination of names. This is also one of very few entries around that time where the date of birth is given. Perhaps that is just because the child was aged about 2 1/2 or perhaps it was because he had been born outside the parish. Your next step could well be to have a wider (in time) search made of Bishopwearmouth and Chester le Street registers, seeking siblings. I would recommend using the IGI as a guide, as I did, as to where and when to seek the full details, but as no more than that - a rough guide only. That way you might find the supposed three earlier children and, perhaps more importantly, you might find some later ones baptised during the "Barrington Period", which began on 1 January 1798 and which lasted until 31 December 1812. During that period the children are usually numbered (1st son, 5th daughter, etc) and the names are given of the parishes of which each parent was a native, as well as other details. It could be very useful to you if any such "Barrington baptisms" were to be found. One last comment. Bishopwearmouth parish church is St Michael's, a typical mediaeval Gothic parish church. It is still the main church in the centre of the City of Sunderland today. A few years ago it was given the pretentious new name of "Sunderland Minster". I hope you have found this helpful. Geoff Nicholson

George Ward Cole was a well-known citizen (maritime merchant and member of Parliament ) of Victoria, Australia in the 1800s. He had previously served with distinction in the Royal Navy. The 150th anniversary of his founding of the Victorian township of St Leonards is being celebrated in November of this year. It is believed that he was born at Lumley Castle, County Durham in 1793 and that his parents were John Cole and Eliza nee James, who were presumably servants or tenant farmers at the castle. George was said to be the fourth son.of these parents. If anyone has access to details of the family of John and Eliza Cole this information would assist in the celebration of a significant anniversary George Ward Cole's arrival, especially as there is no record in Victoria of any of descendants. Max Procter Drysdale, Victoria, Australia

Dear Janet, You need to be very sceptical about anything on the IGI that uses the word 'about' when designating the date of a life event. It means that whoever inserted the entry (and it will be from an individual rather than the LDS's organised programme of parish register transcriptions) had not copied it from an original record but had simply guessed at a year. Such entries are often worthless and belong to fantasy family history rather than proper research. Having just looked up the entry you refer to, I see that the spouse is described as 'Mrs Margaret Cain', that both 'dates' are vague guesses and that no parish is specified. Sorry, but all that indicates that the 'source' is someone's imagination rather than written records. Best wishes, Peter Griffiths -----Original Message----- From: Janet Hopkins [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 September 2007 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] re source of IGI entry Hi Listers! I was wondering if I might post the following question: I am researching the Cain surname in County Durham, and prior to that, in Cumberland. Edward Cain, born in Donegal, Ireland in about 1787 to 1788, married Margaret, surname unknown, who was born in County Down, Irland, in about 1785. I found an entry on the IGI that says that Edward Cain married Margaret in about 1812, in County Down. It says that the record was submitted by a LDS member after 1991. Does anyone know how I can find the source, or whether the submitter would be so kind to share it? The first child of Edward and Margaret that I know of was born in about 1820 in Maryport, but there could have been more children that they had in Ireland earlier. Does anyone have any thoughts? Janet

In a message dated 11/09/2007 23:18:16 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I found an entry on the IGI that says that Edward Cain married Margaret in about 1812, in County Down. _____________________________________________________________________________ Hi Janet, As regards the IGI "......private patron submissions are to be treated with extreme caution!........ignore like the plague those entries which use the word "About", since these are dangerously misleading. They are notoriously unreliable, being no more than guesses arrived at by subtracting 25 years in the case of a man and 21 years for a woman from a marriage date to arrive at a supposed birth date." http://www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html Stan

Hi Janet. You could have a look in Ancestral file. You might just get lucky. I came across something similar a few years ago with our family. There was some vague information listed on the I.G.I. which seemed to have come from the census. I never got to the bottom of it. The L.D.S. couldn`t help, just saying something like "The information was extracted by either a member of the church or a volunteer after 1991" Can`t remember the exact phrase. I couldn`t imagine why anyone would take the 1871 census I think it was and enter the family on the I.G.I. with vague dates for the marriage, births. I thought whoever had posted the information could be related. Incidentally we have the CAIN/KANE surname in our tree. Originally from Clydagh in Roscommon, Ireland and another branch possibly from the same place but come into the tree in Manchester. George Carter in Whaley Bridge. Researching CARR / PEARSON / WHARRIER from Gateshead CARTER in Barningham, Newsham, Darlington and Gateshead CARLTON from Staindrop. KIRWAN from Dublin QUINN from Brosna, Kings County FLYNN from Ballinlough, Roscommon -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Janet Hopkins Sent: 11 September 2007 23:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [ENG-DURHAM] re source of IGI entry Hi Listers! I was wondering if I might post the following question: I am researching the Cain surname in County Durham, and prior to that, in Cumberland. Edward Cain, born in Donegal, Ireland in about 1787 to 1788, married Margaret, surname unknown, who was born in County Down, Irland, in about 1785. I found an entry on the IGI that says that Edward Cain married Margaret in about 1812, in County Down. It says that the record was submitted by a LDS member after 1991. Does anyone know how I can find the source, or whether the submitter would be so kind to share it? The first child of Edward and Margaret that I know of was born in about 1820 in Maryport, but there could have been more children that they had in Ireland earlier. Does anyone have any thoughts? Janet ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.14/999 - Release Date: 10/09/2007 17:43 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.14/999 - Release Date: 10/09/2007 17:43

Thank you Nathan, lots of great reading here. For those of us across the Pond, it is difficult to find searchable Sites Ellen

Hi Listers! I was wondering if I might post the following question: I am researching the Cain surname in County Durham, and prior to that, in Cumberland. Edward Cain, born in Donegal, Ireland in about 1787 to 1788, married Margaret, surname unknown, who was born in County Down, Irland, in about 1785. I found an entry on the IGI that says that Edward Cain married Margaret in about 1812, in County Down. It says that the record was submitted by a LDS member after 1991. Does anyone know how I can find the source, or whether the submitter would be so kind to share it? The first child of Edward and Margaret that I know of was born in about 1820 in Maryport, but there could have been more children that they had in Ireland earlier. Does anyone have any thoughts? Janet