Stan and Rod Thank you again, my encyclopaedic friends; this time for taking the time to hunt up references and sorting out the rope works. I hadn't realized it was all about wire rope. Your second-mile info now suggests why my cousin, a Sunderland boy, sudddenly moved with his family to Doncaster. Bruce Dodd Ottawa, ON -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 514 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message