Sorry Stan but it it is North Zetland Street which is still standing (about 10 houses ) Zetland Street was between Dame Dorothy Street and Millum Terrace It was the street where the workers from J.L.Thompsons used to charge up after finishing their shift Ithink number 3 was beside the shipyard gate and one side was taken over by the shipyard and used for a stockyard The other side was demolished in the early sixties along with the other streets of that area Regarding the pattern maker, I have a tendency to think he would have made the templates for the steel plates used in the construction of ships Regards George

Andy The 1861 census for Sunderland is being transcribed by the FreeCen project. The results are a work in process which cannot be published on the website until they have been checked and validated. I can tell you that I did not find Govis/Govers in piece 3780, which is one of four pieces for Sunderland. I did find a Groves family on piece 3780 folio41 page 3 schedule 13 (James, Margaret, Margaret, Edward, Jane & Mary) which you might want to check. If you or anyone else has the time and inclination to help, here is the link http://freecen.rootsweb.com/ Ian Thompson Global Logistics - AP Network Development Manager Tel: +65 6418 3990 Tie line 919 3990 Fax: +65 6587 0408 Mob: +65 9040 3077 "Andy Nurse" <esrun@netfactory To: ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com .com.au> cc: Subject: [SUNDERLAND] 1861 census - Durham 03/02/2004 08:15 PM Hi all, Just a quick question. Does anyone know if the 1861 census has been indexed, in particular the Sunderland, Bishopwearmouth and Monkwearmouth areas. I am still looking for my elusive Govis/Govers and I am starting to go cross eyed looking at the census pages. TIA Andy in the Land of Oz --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.572 / Virus Database: 362 - Release Date: 27/01/2004 ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== History of Sunderland, http://www.sunderland-index.co.uk/history/history01.html

Hi Wondering if anyone else on the list may be researching the above names. I have Mary Ann BAKER born 1867 Sunderland married Thomas Edward Lillie THOMPSON born 1869 Sunderland. Their one and only child was Nora Lilian THOMPSON born 1895 Sunderland. Mary's parents were James & Eliza, other children were Margaret, Rosetta, Conrad, William, John, Catherine & Eliza. Thomas's parents were William & Sarah A, other children were Francis M & Nora. Gathered a fair bit of information on both families and willing to share this with interested parties. Sue Sunderland

In a message dated 06/02/2004 20:45:12 GMT Standard Time, okfrooms@shaw.ca writes: > 1. I would be very interested in finding out where that street address > was located and if it still exists. > 2. Can any one tell me what a pattern maker might have been? > 3. The sir names after the mother's name - am I correct in assuming > that she was the widow of COWELL, > and her maiden name is LIDDELL? > Zetland Street is still there you can get its location using http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ What a Pattern Maker was would depend on the industry he worked in, but in Sunderland it was most probably Engineering or Pottery. In engineering he made models of patterns, (usually of wood) from drawings supplied by the Drawing Office, these formed the sand moulds from which castings were made. In pottery he made pots from the design of a draughtsman, and passed them to a mould maker who made the moulds from them for the mass production of the design. You are correct about the names. Regards Stan Mapstone

Hello List. I am looking for further info on the Swain family who in the 1861 Census were living in the Minerva Hotel 1 East Cross Street Sunderland. Is any one able to find them on the 1871 Census for me at this address or let me know that they no longer lived there? TIA Colin Notman

Wonderful!, wonderful!. Thank you ALL so much for the information that you share. You will never know how much it is appreciated by this gal in Canada. It helps me understand so much more about my great grand parents lives. Thanks again. Bev Froom

I have obtained the birth certificate of my grandfather George Andrew ROSS born February 22, 1867 at #3 Zetland Street Monkwearmouth. It states that his father a (Pattern Maker) was Alexander James ROSS, and mother Anne ROSS late COWELL formerly LIDDELL. Questions: 1. I would be very interested in finding out where that street address was located and if it still exists. 2. Can any one tell me what a pattern maker might have been? 3. The sir names after the mother's name - am I correct in assuming that she was the widow of COWELL, and her maiden name is LIDDELL? Does anyone have access to the 1861 or 1871 census and could help in locating Alexander James ROSS married to Anne? I am trying to establish the age of Alexander ROSS. I do know that he was deceased by 1887 when his son George Andrew ROSS was married. Thanks so much for your assistance in advance. Bev Froom

Charles Dryden appeared in LDS lists as Christened in Sunderland 1834, can't find any other trace of him except that name is shown on the birth Certificate of my Maternal Grandfather John and I have traced them down from living in Silkworth Row in 1881, Picton St to 1891 and then they moved to Teesside of where I have records. I am now trying to trace any relatives of John Dryden married to Wilhellmina 1874, they had many children but few grandchildren, names I can recall are Cameron -Ernest & Norman,Minnie & Ella, Minnie married a Roe And Ella a Collinson. Any thoughts or information anyone

Thanks a lot Lillian--another problem solved Regards George

Thanks a lot Lillian--another problem solved Regards George

Hi Margaret, If I remember right, Deptford Dean in the early 1950's was a children's play park. Deptford Terrace and Deptford Terrace School ran along one side of 'the dean' as it was locally known. It was quite close to the river so maybe it had been bombdamaged in the war and cleared afterwards to make the play area. This happened to a bomb site in Lime St/ Ravensworth Street, not too far from Deptford. Regards, Lilian > > Hi All > Found a family I was looking for on the 1841 census but the abode is given > as DEPTFORD DEAN Bishopwearmouth > Any one else heard of it as the quality of the census is poor and I may have > mis-read it > Cheers > George > > ______________________________ > >

Thanks to everyone who has helped with advice about Bishopwearmouth. I have now found the streets I was looking for. Lesley ------------------------------------------------- Email: Lesley@forrest1.demon.co.uk Fax: UK: 08700 517479 International: +448700517479 -------------------------------------------------

Hi All I would like to introduce myself to you - my name is Carol Barber and I am a Co-ordinator for Freecensus which is a volunteer based project involving transcribing census material for free to view access on the internet. At present we only have 1 piece on the searchable website for 1891 Easington but obviously working towards getting more on as time permits. If you would like further information as to what is involved or would like to join the project then please do contact me off list and I will answer any questions that you may have. I thank you for your time in reading this message. Carol Barber FreeCensus Co-ordinator for Durham and WRY http://freecen.rootsweb.com

A big thank you to Chris, Stan, Sue and Avril for your help. I am happier now that this constant moving was a natural occurrence. Thanks especially to you Avril, the problem appears to be the wrong birth certificate, There were obviously two Jane Worthys born around the same time and same place, I just picked the wrong one. Thanks again to you all Richard

Thank you Ann Hope this does not sound sarcastic in any way but I live in Monkwearmouth Sunderland and worked for many years in the Pallion shipyard quite close to Deptford Trouble is until recently I have never came across Deptford Dean ?. Was hoping someone on the list had an old map to confirm its existance or have I misread the 1841 census which is a nightmare to read Thanks again George

I once asked my family why they flitted around from street to street. I was told that the lanlord didn't care as long as the rent was paid. Families grew as new were born and became smaller as some died so they just moved around to suit. A case of "if the coat fits wear it. Regards all Chris

Hi All Found a family I was looking for on the 1841 census but the abode is given as DEPTFORD DEAN Bishopwearmouth Any one else heard of it as the quality of the census is poor and I may have mis-read it Cheers George

Hi all, Just a quick question. Does anyone know if the 1861 census has been indexed, in particular the Sunderland, Bishopwearmouth and Monkwearmouth areas. I am still looking for my elusive Govis/Govers and I am starting to go cross eyed looking at the census pages. TIA Andy in the Land of Oz --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.572 / Virus Database: 362 - Release Date: 27/01/2004

In a message dated 03/02/2004 08:45:06 GMT Standard Time, richard.shaw@aqualisa.co.uk writes: > Can anyone tell me whether it was common at this time for people to move house on such a regular basis?> Hi Richard I would agree with Stan. From my own family research, my ancestors seemed to be on the move all the time. Avoiding the Rent Collector probably <big big grin> Sue Sunderland Researching: POLLEY, OLD, CARTLEDGE, CALVERT, TAYLOR, NEASHAM, AYRE, PESTELL, BRANTON, LINCOLN, GANLEY, FLAHERTY, BAINBRIDGE, DELVOY, BLANCHFLOWER, BOOTH, EMBLING, CARR, FINNEGAN, HALL, HUNTER, KELLY, RICHARDS, BLAKELOCK, ROWE, RUTHERFORD, STEWART, COCKERILL. Places: ESSEX, SUNDERLAND, NORFOLK, DURHAM, IRELAND, SCOTLAND.

In a message dated 03/02/2004 18:20:40 GMT Standard Time, branton_st@dsl.pipex.com writes: > Avoiding the Rent Collector probably Doing a 'Moonlight Flit'? Regards Stan Mapstone