Hi, I'm hoping someone can help me get through a "stone wall". I'm looking for information on Henry PATTEN born in Sunderland, Co. Durham about 1828 to James PATTEN and Margaret ROBERTSON. Henry was widowed in 1856 and had three deceased children when he remarried in Warrnambool, Victoria, Australia in the 1860's. James Patten is identified as a mariner, and I understand that Henry was a sea captain, sailing to Melbourne, Australia in 1857. Kind regards, Wayne PATTEN Sydney, Australia

Tessa - I have had a look in 'Cemeteries in County Durham' published by Durham County Record Office and in "Appendix 2 - Church Graveyard Additions" it lists Bishopwearmouth Cemetery extension at Low Row (i.e. Hind Street) and it seems that the records may also be at Durham Records Office under referenece EP/Biw so it may well be worth checking with them also. My project was done as a local history project and not as a family history project so it does not contain any information on records. Alan Vickers

Thanks for your reply and advice Alan, I will try the Library. Tessa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Vickers" <alan-vickers@lineone.net> To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:03 PM Subject: [SUNDERLAND] Bishopwearmouth Church & Training Ship. > Tessa - my notes were prepared as part of a project that I did a few years > ago on the burial grounds in the City of Sunderland and I have to confess > that who could be buried in Bishopwearmouth cemeteries is not really my > subject. I only know of one old catholic cemetery in Sunderland and that > was at Factory Street. A Sail Cloth factory was built on the site of the > disused cemetery and the street was later renamed Cumberland Street. > > The only other Catholic cemetery that I am aware of is at St Leonard's > Church in Silksworth. > > For the records of burials I suggest that you first try the Local Studies > Department at Sunderland City Library. > > Alan Vickers. > > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > History of Sunderland, > http://www.sunderland-index.co.uk/history/history01.html > >

Tessa - my notes were prepared as part of a project that I did a few years ago on the burial grounds in the City of Sunderland and I have to confess that who could be buried in Bishopwearmouth cemeteries is not really my subject. I only know of one old catholic cemetery in Sunderland and that was at Factory Street. A Sail Cloth factory was built on the site of the disused cemetery and the street was later renamed Cumberland Street. The only other Catholic cemetery that I am aware of is at St Leonard's Church in Silksworth. For the records of burials I suggest that you first try the Local Studies Department at Sunderland City Library. Alan Vickers.

Alan, would Catholics be buried in any of the Bishopwearmouth cemeteries? I am trying to trace my Conlon ancestors who lived there during the 1800s. Where would I find the records of their burials please. Thank you Tessa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Vickers" <alan-vickers@lineone.net> To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:50 AM Subject: [SUNDERLAND] Bishopwearmouth Church & Training Ship. > The notes that I have on the Bishopwearmuith cemeteries are: > > St. Michael's Church, Bishopwearmouth. The burial ground was in use from the early days of the church and was probably much larger in area than appears today as bodies have been found in South Gate and a good deal of space was used for private vaults. According to the registers, the churchyard contains tens of thousands of burials. The burial ground was closed by the General Board of Health in 1849 as it was full. In 1806 the position of the tomb-stones was largely altered and in the 1930 - 40s, after a copy of their inscriptions was made, the tomb-stones were used as flag stones. > > A great many burials were in vaults under the church itself. These vaults have had their inscriptions scheduled before filling in and concreting over. One of the earliest known is the burial of George Topias, yeoman, in whose will, dated 1582-3, is stated 'To be interred in the church of the said Wearmouth under my own stall where commonlie I used to sitte.' > > Bishopwearmouth Cemetery, Thornton Place (Galleys Gill). This was opened in October, 1839, to relieve pressure on St Michael's churchyard which was seriously overcrowded, the ground having been given by the Rev. Dr. Wellesley, the Rector of Bishopwearmouth, and enclosed by the parishioners. The cemetery should have been closed in May 1854 but owing to the difficulty of obtaining another suitable place for interment, the Secretary of State allowed it to remain open until the Chester Road Cemetery was completed. In 1849 it was reported that there were 400 interments per annum. > > Hind Street Cemetery. This was opened in 1831 on land given by the Rector of Bishopwearmouth, to take the bodies of the cholera victims. Part of this burial ground was underneath the National School. In 1849 it was said to be unusable. Through the burial ground flowed the Wearmouth Burn and underneath the school there were twelve large vaults with 70 bodies. The remains of a number of burials were removed to Chester Road Cemetery when the new road system was built in the late 1980s. > > Alan Vickers. > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > To contact the List Owner send mail to, > ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-admin@lists5.rootsweb.com > >

The notes that I have on the Bishopwearmuith cemeteries are: St. Michael's Church, Bishopwearmouth. The burial ground was in use from the early days of the church and was probably much larger in area than appears today as bodies have been found in South Gate and a good deal of space was used for private vaults. According to the registers, the churchyard contains tens of thousands of burials. The burial ground was closed by the General Board of Health in 1849 as it was full. In 1806 the position of the tomb-stones was largely altered and in the 1930 - 40s, after a copy of their inscriptions was made, the tomb-stones were used as flag stones. A great many burials were in vaults under the church itself. These vaults have had their inscriptions scheduled before filling in and concreting over. One of the earliest known is the burial of George Topias, yeoman, in whose will, dated 1582-3, is stated 'To be interred in the church of the said Wearmouth under my own stall where commonlie I used to sitte.' Bishopwearmouth Cemetery, Thornton Place (Galleys Gill). This was opened in October, 1839, to relieve pressure on St Michael's churchyard which was seriously overcrowded, the ground having been given by the Rev. Dr. Wellesley, the Rector of Bishopwearmouth, and enclosed by the parishioners. The cemetery should have been closed in May 1854 but owing to the difficulty of obtaining another suitable place for interment, the Secretary of State allowed it to remain open until the Chester Road Cemetery was completed. In 1849 it was reported that there were 400 interments per annum. Hind Street Cemetery. This was opened in 1831 on land given by the Rector of Bishopwearmouth, to take the bodies of the cholera victims. Part of this burial ground was underneath the National School. In 1849 it was said to be unusable. Through the burial ground flowed the Wearmouth Burn and underneath the school there were twelve large vaults with 70 bodies. The remains of a number of burials were removed to Chester Road Cemetery when the new road system was built in the late 1980s. Alan Vickers.

hello david, you write about the Claverdale going missing in the pacific, date unknown. My G. Grandfather, William H Lambert was a master in the Dale Line, owned by Sir Philip Laing of Sunderland. One of his ships was the Ferndale, his regular run was with iron ore from Bilboa to the Tees & Tyne for the Consett works. Perhaps the Claverdale was originally a Dale Line ship later sold. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has ancestors who were crew members with the Dale Line in the late 19 c. My other shipping interests are with the Prince Line, owned by Sir James Knott. Regards, Derek Lambert.

>My Gt, Gt, Grandfather was killed in 1865 in an Accident at Seaton Station which is on the Hartlepool to Sunderland Railway Line. He was taken to Bishopwearmouth Hospital, he was in the Royal Naval Reserve and was on his way to the training ship when the Accident happened. >He was given a Naval Funeral & was buried at the Bishopwearmouth Church, but which church would this be? ================================================================== Hi Alan, Bishopwearmouth Church stands across from the Empire Theatre in Sunderland an is now referred to at the Sunderland Minster (it became a Minster after Sunderland was granted City status). It is dedicated to St Michael and All Angels and has often been called by that dedicated name too. The cemetery surrounding the church is rather small and still has a number of headstones in situ. Once it became full, there was another cemetery opened near to what is called Galley's Gill. This is now just an open space which leads down to the river. Some of the headstones that once marked the graves can still be seen propped against the southern boundary wall of the cemetery. The present Bishopwearmouth Cemetery lies between Chester Road (the A183) and Hylton Road. There was another burial ground over the road from Bishopwearmouth Church, but I think it was used only for the Cholera victims. A few years back, when they built a new road over where this burial was situated, they removed the remains of those who had been buried there, and reinterred them in the present Bishopwearmouth Cemetery. Hope this helps... David Allan.

Hi Allan, Yes, there was a training brig called the 'Victoria' the Secretary for War arranged for "ten handsome six-pounder guns and their carriages" to be sent to the Orphan Asylum so the lads could be taught gun drill. The good ship Victoria – named in honour of the Queen – was built in the playground and from the "waterline" upwards was fitted in every detail as a 10-gun brig. Below the "waterline" was solid earth. see http://tinyurl.com/6y4h5 The Orphanage is now a community centre see http://tinyurl.com/3omzu Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

Hello All My Gt, Gt, Grandfather was killed in 1865 in an Accident at Seaton Station which is on the Hartlepool to Sunderland Railway Line. He was taken to Bishopwearmouth Hospital, he was in the Royal Naval Reserve and was on his way to the training ship when the Accident happened. He `was given a Naval Funeral & was buried at the Bishopwearmouth Church, but which church would this be? Also would anybody know the Training ship in Sunderland that time. Hope someone can help Regards Allan Robson

Hi Allan, I wonder if it was a sea going Training Ship which was docked in Sunderland, and he was going to join it? Although what information I can find seems to indicate that these ships were much later. Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

In a message dated 27/12/2004 12:12:16 GMT Standard Time, adrobson@supanet.com writes: He `was given a Naval Funeral & was buried at the Bishopwearmouth Church, but which church would this be? Also would anybody know the Training ship in Sunderland that time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bishopwearmouth Church would be the parish church of St. Michael & All Angles, but he would not have been buried there, as there was no graveyard in 1865. He would probably have been buried in Bishopwearmouth Cemetery, opened in 1856. Tyne & Wear Archive Services have the Indexes to burials 1856-1998, Burial registers 1856-1998, and Graves registers 1884-1998 There was no training ship in Sunderland but there was the Orphan Asylum, founded in 1853, for the children of seafarers, who wore naval uniform and some went on to become ship captains. Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

Thank you very much to Stan and Chris, who looked at census and FreeBMD date to help me find out more about Fred COOPER's family. Very much appreciated. The article I wrote up here is probably from the Sunderland Echo, as "SUN" and the beginning of "D" can be recognised at the top of the copy I have, but not knowing the exact date will make it difficult to find the paper. And, unfortunately, I don't have access to the London Times archives at the moment, so I will have to wait to check that database. An internet search comes up with a painting by a chinese artist of a steamer with sails, which may be the right ship. The painting is in a private German collection now. David Eyre -- Psssst! Mit GMX Handyrechnung senken: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail 100 FreeSMS/Monat (GMX TopMail), 50 (GMX ProMail), 10 (GMX FreeMail)

This is an article from the Sunderland paper that was passed on to me in copy about the ship "Claverdale" that sank. The exact date is unknown, as that part of the clipping was not sent, so if anyone can date this article for me, I would greatly appreciate it. David Eyre SUPPOSED LOSS OF THE CLAVERDALE Four Sunderland Men Aboard LIST OF THE OFFICERS THE MISSING STEAMER BUILT ON THE WEAR Much anxiety is being felt in Sunderland for the safety of the Claverdale s, a steamer of 4,000 tons, which was built at the shipyard of Messrs J. PRIESTMAN and Co., and which was purchaes by Messrs E. HASLEHURST and Co., London, E. C. It is reported that she left Barry in September, with coal, ostensibly for Manila. She left Hong Kong on November 23rd for Vladivostock, but has never been heard of since. When she put into Hong Kong it was rumoured she was blockade running. Her long absence has raised alarm, and it is conjectured that she must have been either seized by the Japanese or sunk by a floating mine. There is no confirmation, however, of these theories. The local men on board of her are Fred COOPER (36), chief engineer, living at 81, Sorley Street; Edward BEADLE, third engineer, son of the deputy dock master; Cornelius GRAY, fourth engineer; and John CAMPBELL, steward, 8, Dock Street East. It is difficult to assertain whether there are any local men among the crew, but it is thought that the remainder are Welsh, including the master, Captain THOMAS. COOPER is a married man with four children, and CAMPBELL is also married. Sad to relate, the wife of COOPER died on January 3rd from an illness contracted through nursing a sick child.* The last letters that seem to have been received by the relatives arrived last week from Hong Kong, and were dated November 23rd, but in them nothing definate was stated in regard to the movements of the ship. CAMPBELL wrote stating that the vessel would proceed from Hong Kong to Vladivostock and COOPER, in his letter, after, in effect, confirming this statement, added that if the vessel went direct they would expect to do the voyage in 29 days. The vessel, it is said, was carrying coals for the Russians and had simply called at Hong Kong on the passage. CAMPBELL wrote that the Claverdale after arriving at Vladivostock would return to Yokohama probably calling at Hong Kong on the way, and after loading would proceed to New York. He assured his people that there was no need for alarm. If as he stated it would take the vessel 29 days to reach Vladivostock she ought to have been there on Dec 13th. He promised that as soon as he arrived at Vladivostock he would send a cablegram to his wife but one has not yet arrived, and the families of the men are in a very anxious state of mind in consequence. Fears for the worst are being entertained. A local solicitor wrote to the London firm in respect to the payment of a donation to COOPER's wife, and in their reply Messrs E HASLEHURST and Company after dealing with the business in hand made no reference to the Claverdale, and this leads to the assumption that at any rate in the owners' minds nothing untoward has happened. Some persons are inclined to believe that the vessel is waiting for the Baltic Fleet, and so far as this is concerned there appears to be some likelihood that this is the case. The father of one of the engineers, when spoken to this afternoon, was of the opinion that if anything had happened to the boat some notification of the fact would have been received. He did not think that the Claverdales had run to Vladivostock, and the fact that no news had been received from his son supported him in that idea. It is understood that an agreement had been signed to make the run and that special money was to be paid to the crew for their share of the risk of the voyage. This money, it is reported, has been paid to some of the families, which makes it appear as though the vessel had reached Vladivostock. List of Officers Her officers and crew numbered 30, including four apprentices. The former signed on at Barry, and are as follows: -- E. THOMAS, Cardigan, Captain D. LLEWELLYN, St. Dogmael's, mate D. T. JONES, Cardigan, second mate James REED, St. David's, third mate D. D. JONES, Cardigan, carpenter J. S. CAMPBELL, Sunderland, steward Owen ROBERTS, Holyhead, cook John WADDLE, Jersey, boatswain Fred COOPER, Sunderland, chief engineer Fred MAHER, Teddington, second engineer James BEEDLE, Sunderland, thrid engineer Cornelius GRAY, Sunderland, fourth engineer: the four apprentices were: William HOWIE, Aberdeen, Gerald Howard MacFARLANE, Montreal, Reginald TURNER, Lewes, and George Alexander SAUNDERS, Portsmouth. *Fred COOPER is my ggg-uncle, his brother George Jeremiah COOPER immigrated to Luzern Co, Pennsylvania, USA. The name of Fred's wife is not known to me. Fred's children were Gertrude (b. 1898), Freda (b. Aug 1900), George, and Clifton. As Fred was never heard from again, it is assumed that the Claverdale was indeed lost at sea. His children were living with his mother, Caroline ELMY Cooper at 81 Sorley Street, she died 15 Mar 1919, after which the children had sold the house. Gertrude was married to (--) ALEXANDER, and moved to Norfolk with her brother George. Freda and Clifton took rooms near each other in Hendon. Clifton was apprenticed to be a ship's engineer, Freda was working in booking keeping and ledger. If anyone knows anything about this family, please let me know. Happy Christmas! David Eyre -- Psssst! Mit GMX Handyrechnung senken: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail 100 FreeSMS/Monat (GMX TopMail), 50 (GMX ProMail), 10 (GMX FreeMail)

In a message dated 25/12/2004 11:04:41 GMT Standard Time, eyregen@gmx.de writes: The exact date is unknown, as that part of the clipping was not sent, so if anyone can date this article for me, I would greatly appreciate it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David, If you can get access to the London Times Digital Archive, through a library or university, it may have a report on the loss of the Claverdale as they did publish Lloyds shipping reports. Or you could contact the National Maritime Museum at http://www.nmm.ac.uk/ They have a Research guide C8: The Merchant Navy: Wrecks, losses and casualties. There would be a report in the Sunderland Echo, copies of which are held at the Sunderland Library, but without a date it would be difficult to find it. Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

Thank you Stan.I already knew that, but I must of had a "Senior Moment"(again) Jim Cleary

Thanks very much Stan......... edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton SystemWorks

In a message dated 19/12/2004 20:25:53 GMT Standard Time, Epaxton@aol.com writes: I have a church noted on a Marriage cert. as Trinity Presbyterian Church. Looking at Sunderland now, there is a Holy Trinity C of E Church. Were/are they the same church? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Edward, Holy Trinity C of E (1719) was the Sunderland Parish Church on Church Street. The Trinity Presbyterian Church was on Toward Road built in 1870. Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

Hi Tony, Thanks very much for that information. Jim Cleary

I have a church noted on a Marriage cert. as Trinity Presbyterian Church. Looking at Sunderland now, there is a Holy Trinity C of E Church. Were/are they the same church? TIA edward Limpsfield, Surrey Using Norton SystemWorks