In a message dated 11/03/2005 11:02:39 GMT Standard Time, postmantim2@optusnet.com.au writes: * 1. The Freecen 1861 record which shows the Wilcox family living at Westoe (Piece RG9/3792 Place Westoe-Co. Durham Enumeration District:21 Civil Parish:Whitburn etc...) contains a serious transcription error. Piece 3792 is actually the first page of Whitburn Village, not Westoe at all. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim, There seems to be scope for confusion, this is from PROCAT when you enter RG 9/3792 RG 9/3792 Registration Sub-District 1 Westoe 1861 RG 9/3792 Parish: Whitburn 1861 RG 9/3792 Parish: Jarrow (part) (Divided between RG 9/3785-3798) Hamlet: Harton (8) 1861 Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

In the 1871 Census there is no house name shown, just Whitburn. There are William Wilcox 69, head, Collector HM Customs Sunderland. Margaret Wilcox, daughter, 34. Leonard Wilcox, son, 24. Clara M. Wilcox, daughter, 15. Mary D. Wilcox, daughter, 11. Margaret A. A. Dodgson, 29, visitor, Daresbury, Cheshire. Francis A. Kipling, 19, visitor, Waghan, Yorkshire. Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

In 1861 William Wilcox collector of Customs was living in the village of Whitburn the fifth entry on the first page of records his wife was Mary and children, the first one being willam E. and Micheal Bute in his book talks of cousin Willian Edward who joined the Sunderland Rifle Volunteers, and says they were living at "1 Lizard Lane" which runs behind the coast road. regards Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: "tim sewell" <postmantim2@optusnet.com.au> To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [genealogy] [SUNDERLAND] Southwick and Lewis Caroll > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Stanmapstone@aol.com> > To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > > <snipped> > > > > In 1855 Alexander Wilcox was the Collector of Customs for Sunderland. > > Yes, indeed, but... > > The 1861 Census (thanks again to all the Freecen volunteers) shows Alexander > Wilcox and his family to be living at Westoe (in Whitburn civil and > ecclesiastical parishes, but not in Whitburn village), quite some way from > the High Croft that we are homing on. > > The 1856 -1862 OS map on Tomorrows History, and the 1862 map on Old Maps > (which looks very much like the same map) shows that the site on which High > Croft was eventually built was still merely a disused limestone quarry at > that time (with just two small sheds on the quarry floor). > > The only Whitburn Wilcoxes recorded in the 1881 census were living at > Stafford Lane (a short cut between front Street and North Guards). And > there seems to be no mention of High Croft in the 1881 census of Whitburn > village. > > > In 1890 a Miss Wilcox was living in High Croft, Whitburn. > > I have always understood that High Croft was not built until the mid 1890s, > but your reference to Miss Wilcox living there in 1890 (presumably from the > 1890 Kelly's Directory ?) seems to prove me wrong in that detail. I will > see if I can get any further clarification from the 1851, 1871 and 1891 > censuses (or from others in the family). > > >In the 1901 census a William Sewell was living in High Croft, Whitburn. > >He was still there in 1914. > > William Sewell lived there until his death in 1925, when High Croft passed > to his son Thomas Reginald Sewell. > > All of this is of great personal interest to me, because William Sewell was > my grandfather, Thomas Reginald was my uncle and step-father, and High Croft > was my home for a significant portion of my boyhood. > > But, coming back to my original puzzlement - I see nothing that indicates > that the Misses Wilcox could have been living at High Croft in 1855, when > Lewis Carroll visited them. If he was really visiting Westoe, perhaps the > sands that inspired him were Marsden Bay, and not Whitburn as we would think > of it nowadays? > > Tim S. > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > The Lambton Worm, > http://orac.sunderland.ac.uk/lambton.html >

Agree with Pat. 1st one would be Assembly Garth & 2nd Woodbine Terrace Sue

I too have a Whitehead to find My Great Grandfather was William Whitehead Stodart born Sunderland I have tried to look for a Whitehead /Stoddart marriage but no joy -yet William Whitehead Stoddart Births September Quarter 1847 Vol 24 Pg291 Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin James" <rootswebinfo@yahoo.co.uk> To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 7:18 PM Subject: [SUNDERLAND] WHITEHEAD > I am researching the WHITEHEAD family in Sunderland around the 1850's can anyone help please? I am at a loss > > Thanks in advance > > Barbara Crimes > Shropshire UK > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > This list is only as good as you make it. Please Participate and help keep it interesting! > >

The first one would be Assembly Garth which was in the East End The second one Woodbine Terrace springs to mind but not sure Cheers Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Our Mail" <ourmail@chez-williams.com> To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:18 PM Subject: [SUNDERLAND] Sttreet Names Sunderland > I have received 2 death certificates but can't make out the names of the > addresses where the deaths occurred in the 1880's. One looks like 9 > Assembly (first 3 letters almost indecipherable) Garth. The death was in > the sub-district of East Sunderland. > The other address could be 9 Woodger (?) Terrace, and was in Monkwearmouth. > I can find no similar addresses in modern Sunderland. Can anyone point > me in the right direction? > > John > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > History of Sunderland, > http://www.sunderland-index.co.uk/history/history01.html > >

I have received 2 death certificates but can't make out the names of the addresses where the deaths occurred in the 1880's. One looks like 9 Assembly (first 3 letters almost indecipherable) Garth. The death was in the sub-district of East Sunderland. The other address could be 9 Woodger (?) Terrace, and was in Monkwearmouth. I can find no similar addresses in modern Sunderland. Can anyone point me in the right direction? John

I am researching the WHITEHEAD family in Sunderland around the 1850's can anyone help please? I am at a loss Thanks in advance Barbara Crimes Shropshire UK --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

I am researching the WHITEHEAD family in Sunderland around the 1850's can anyone help please? I am at a loss Thanks in advance Barbara Crimes Shropshire UK --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

In a message dated 10/03/2005 20:17:50 GMT Standard Time, ourmail@chez-williams.com writes: The other address could be 9 Woodger (?) Terrace, and was in Monkwearmouth. I can find no similar addresses in modern Sunderland. Can anyone point me in the right direction? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Woodger Terrace was at the south end of Hay Street, at the junction with Easington Street opposite Monkwearmouth Goods Station, the area was known as 'back of the pit.' There were 12 houses in it. Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

Maureen, Some aspects of the reported Lewis Carroll connection to Whitburn have me mildly puzzled. In "A literary Guide to North-East England (http://online.northumbria.ac.uk/faculties/art/humanities/cns/m-index.html), Alan Myers states : " Most of his famous poem 'Jabberwocky' which begins: 'Twas brillig and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.' was written on a visit to his Wilcox cousins in Whitburn, near Sunderland in 1855. Mrs Wilcox was the wife of the Collector of Customs in Sunderland; their house, High Croft, was later burned down. " The other day, when I perused the fiche images of the 1855 census of Whitburn parish, I could find no reference to any house called High Croft, nor to any Wilcox family, nor to anyone claiming to be a "Collector of Customs". Now, I would not be greatly surprised if, somehow, I just missed the Wilcox family, High Croft etc in my search. So if anyone has access to the 1855 census index for the region, I would be grateful if they could tell me if the "Wilcox cousins" are, in fact, listed as living in High Croft, Whitburn. As a secondary question - does anyone know just where in Whitburn this High Croft is thought to have been, and when it was burnt down? Tim S. (P.S. - Just imagine what my spellchecker does with Jabberwocky !) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hurst" <jmhurst@eastleake.net> To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:54 PM Subject: [genealogy] [SUNDERLAND] Southwick and Lewis Caroll > anyone with an interest in Southwick or even lewis Caroll (his sister mary > lived there)will be interested in this website for Southwick History and > Preservation Society. > http://www.rootsweb.com/~engshps/index.html > > Lewis Caroll visited his Wilcox cousins at whitburn. > > 'A Town Like Alice's' by Michael Bute is a very intersting book which tells > of all the north east connections of Charles Lutwidge Dodgson. > > regards > Maureen Hurst > > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > Sunderland L.D.S centre, > http://www.lds.org.uk/genealogy/fhc/sunderland.htm >

My wife and her family lived a 7, Lizard Lane. My mother-in law is the local historian for Whitburn. High Croft was at the top end (Marsden end) of Lizard Lane. She has a good bit of information on the Caroll connection, I'll pick her brains to get an exact location from her and post it here when I can. Gerry Fitzsimons Visit http://www.woodhamgolf.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hurst" <jmhurst@eastleake.net> To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [genealogy] [SUNDERLAND] Southwick and Lewis Caroll > According to the sketch map in the book I mentioned before the house was > no > 1 Lizard Lane. > One of the cousins was William Edward Wilcox.(picture shown dated 1860 > circa ) > The father was William Wilcox. > They ae in the 1861 census in Whitburn , no street or house name with 11 > children only the last three born there, the previous one born in what > look > like Devon he was aged 8 . > ref is RG9/3792/4 > Hope that helps. > regards > Maureen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tim sewell" <postmantim2@optusnet.com.au> > To: "John Hurst" <jmhurst@eastleake.net>; "ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-List" > <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 4:29 AM > Subject: Re: [genealogy] [SUNDERLAND] Southwick and Lewis Caroll > > >> Maureen, >> >> Some aspects of the reported Lewis Carroll connection to Whitburn have me >> mildly puzzled. >> >> In "A literary Guide to North-East England >> > (http://online.northumbria.ac.uk/faculties/art/humanities/cns/m-index.html), >> Alan Myers states : >> >> " Most of his famous poem 'Jabberwocky' which begins: >> >> 'Twas brillig and the slithy toves >> Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.' >> was written on a visit to his Wilcox cousins in Whitburn, >> near Sunderland in 1855. >> >> Mrs Wilcox was the wife of the Collector of Customs in Sunderland; their >> house, High Croft, was later burned down. " >> >> The other day, when I perused the fiche images of the 1855 census of >> Whitburn parish, I could find no reference to any house called High >> Croft, >> nor to any Wilcox family, nor to anyone claiming to be a "Collector of >> Customs". >> >> Now, I would not be greatly surprised if, somehow, I just missed the > Wilcox >> family, High Croft etc in my search. So if anyone has access to the 1855 >> census index for the region, I would be grateful if they could tell me if >> the "Wilcox cousins" are, in fact, listed as living in High Croft, > Whitburn. >> >> As a secondary question - does anyone know just where in Whitburn >> this High Croft is thought to have been, and when it was burnt down? >> >> Tim S. >> >> (P.S. - Just imagine what my spellchecker does with Jabberwocky !) >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Hurst" <jmhurst@eastleake.net> >> To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:54 PM >> Subject: [genealogy] [SUNDERLAND] Southwick and Lewis Caroll >> >> >> > anyone with an interest in Southwick or even lewis Caroll (his sister > mary >> > lived there)will be interested in this website for Southwick History > and >> > Preservation Society. >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~engshps/index.html >> > >> > Lewis Caroll visited his Wilcox cousins at whitburn. >> > >> > 'A Town Like Alice's' by Michael Bute is a very intersting book which >> tells >> > of all the north east connections of Charles Lutwidge Dodgson. >> > >> > regards >> > Maureen Hurst >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== >> > Sunderland L.D.S centre, >> > http://www.lds.org.uk/genealogy/fhc/sunderland.htm >> > >> > > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > To contact the List Owner send mail to, > ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-admin@lists5.rootsweb.com > > >

In a message dated 10/03/2005 15:40:37 GMT Standard Time, Stanmapstone@aol.com writes: See Multimap at http://tinyurl.com/63x2x This does not work try http://tinyurl.com/5kvjx Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

In a message dated 10/03/2005 11:46:27 GMT Standard Time, gerry@gerryfitz.freeserve.co.uk writes: High Croft was at the top end (Marsden end) of Lizard Lane. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> High Croft was still on the OS map 1970-79, it was at the north end of the playing field which was to the west of the cemetery see http://www.tomorrows-history.com/mapping/maps.htm. On the modern map there is now a road called High Croft, off Bryers Street. See Multimap at http://tinyurl.com/63x2x Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

According to the sketch map in the book I mentioned before the house was no 1 Lizard Lane. One of the cousins was William Edward Wilcox.(picture shown dated 1860 circa ) The father was William Wilcox. They ae in the 1861 census in Whitburn , no street or house name with 11 children only the last three born there, the previous one born in what look like Devon he was aged 8 . ref is RG9/3792/4 Hope that helps. regards Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: "tim sewell" <postmantim2@optusnet.com.au> To: "John Hurst" <jmhurst@eastleake.net>; "ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-List" <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 4:29 AM Subject: Re: [genealogy] [SUNDERLAND] Southwick and Lewis Caroll > Maureen, > > Some aspects of the reported Lewis Carroll connection to Whitburn have me > mildly puzzled. > > In "A literary Guide to North-East England > (http://online.northumbria.ac.uk/faculties/art/humanities/cns/m-index.html), > Alan Myers states : > > " Most of his famous poem 'Jabberwocky' which begins: > > 'Twas brillig and the slithy toves > Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.' > was written on a visit to his Wilcox cousins in Whitburn, > near Sunderland in 1855. > > Mrs Wilcox was the wife of the Collector of Customs in Sunderland; their > house, High Croft, was later burned down. " > > The other day, when I perused the fiche images of the 1855 census of > Whitburn parish, I could find no reference to any house called High Croft, > nor to any Wilcox family, nor to anyone claiming to be a "Collector of > Customs". > > Now, I would not be greatly surprised if, somehow, I just missed the Wilcox > family, High Croft etc in my search. So if anyone has access to the 1855 > census index for the region, I would be grateful if they could tell me if > the "Wilcox cousins" are, in fact, listed as living in High Croft, Whitburn. > > As a secondary question - does anyone know just where in Whitburn > this High Croft is thought to have been, and when it was burnt down? > > Tim S. > > (P.S. - Just imagine what my spellchecker does with Jabberwocky !) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Hurst" <jmhurst@eastleake.net> > To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:54 PM > Subject: [genealogy] [SUNDERLAND] Southwick and Lewis Caroll > > > > anyone with an interest in Southwick or even lewis Caroll (his sister mary > > lived there)will be interested in this website for Southwick History and > > Preservation Society. > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~engshps/index.html > > > > Lewis Caroll visited his Wilcox cousins at whitburn. > > > > 'A Town Like Alice's' by Michael Bute is a very intersting book which > tells > > of all the north east connections of Charles Lutwidge Dodgson. > > > > regards > > Maureen Hurst > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > > Sunderland L.D.S centre, > > http://www.lds.org.uk/genealogy/fhc/sunderland.htm > > >

The other day, when I perused the fiche images of the 1855 census of Whitburn parish, I could find no reference to any house called High Croft, nor to any Wilcox family, nor to anyone claiming to be a "Collector of Customs". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In 1855 Alexander Wilcox was the Collector of Customs for Sunderland. In 1890 a Miss Wilcox was living in High Croft, Whitburn. In the 1901 census a William Sewell was living in High Croft, Whitburn. He was still there in 1914. Regards Stan Mapstone www.mapstone.org

I think that's him Ken but details we have are sketchy and Middlesborough supposedly was his birth place I will keep digging-were there any Overends at all in Middlesborough as I used to visit Williams -my Grandfather- cousin there Cheers Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Peterson" <k.peterson@ntlworld.com> To: "Pat & Derek" <derek.phillips2@ntlworld.com> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [SUNDERLAND] Police Records > Hello Pat. > I live near Middlesbrough, had a look at the local index on computer & could > find no record of William OVEREND, this does not mean he is not recorded, > just he is not on the computer, but I did notice on the 1901 census, a > William OVEREND, police constable, aged 30 born Bradford, living in > Bradford, you may already know of him, it just seemed a coincidence. > Regards > Ken > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat & Derek" <derek.phillips2@ntlworld.com> > To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:27 PM > Subject: [SUNDERLAND] Police Records > > > > No I am not looking for info on criminals > > William Overend born about 1879 supposedly in Middlesborough was a > policeman in Sunderland in the early 1900s > > Would there be any police personnel records or access to give me more > information ? > > Cheers Pat > > > > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > > This list is only as good as you make it. Please Participate and help keep > it interesting! > > > > > > >

I have tried to find a site which lists Dodgsons siblings , one said he has 11 ? Tim though checked and the actual census is Dodson so the information that gave me Dodgson may not be correct I do have Spike's ( Michael Bute ) some where but Murphy's law is I cant find it at the minute ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hurst" <jmhurst@eastleake.net> To: <ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:54 PM Subject: [SUNDERLAND] Southwick and Lewis Caroll > anyone with an interest in Southwick or even lewis Caroll (his sister mary > lived there)will be interested in this website for Southwick History and > Preservation Society. > http://www.rootsweb.com/~engshps/index.html > > Lewis Caroll visited his Wilcox cousins at whitburn. > > 'A Town Like Alice's' by Michael Bute is a very intersting book which tells > of all the north east connections of Charles Lutwidge Dodgson. > > regards > Maureen Hurst > > > > ==== ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND Mailing List ==== > Sunderland L.D.S centre, > http://www.lds.org.uk/genealogy/fhc/sunderland.htm > >

I have been tracing the REED'S for ages and today tried a different spelling. The 1871 Census shows the RUD family and sure enough there is my family. William REED 's occupation is listed as INSTRUCTOR OF VOLUNTEERS. Reed was in the Army in the South of England and this census shows him Walker. Any suggestions gladly accepted..............................Regards, Judy

anyone with an interest in Southwick or even lewis Caroll (his sister mary lived there)will be interested in this website for Southwick History and Preservation Society. http://www.rootsweb.com/~engshps/index.html Lewis Caroll visited his Wilcox cousins at whitburn. 'A Town Like Alice's' by Michael Bute is a very intersting book which tells of all the north east connections of Charles Lutwidge Dodgson. regards Maureen Hurst