In a message dated 12/10/2007 16:05:12 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: it was a national Trade Society formed in 1851 _________________________________________________________________ Hi Allan, The problems of organising and financing a union among seamen meant that unions had a local and transient existence. Joseph Havelock Wilson spent eight years at sea and when he returned to Sunderland joined the North of England Sailors' and Seagoing Firemen's Association, which in spite of the title was confined to Sunderland and was ineffective and inefficient. His National Amalgamated Sailors and Firemen's Union of Great Britain and Ireland, had 500 members in 1888, and in July 1889, with a membership of 65,000 he moved the head office from Sunderland to London. There is quite a lot about Joseph Havelock Wilson in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. He was born in Sunderland on the 16th August 1858, the son of John Blenkin Wilson, a foreman draper, and his wife Hannah Robson. On 30th March 1879 he married Jane Ann Whatman, from South Shields, and they had two sons and one daughter. He was a member of Parliament in Middlesbrough 1892-1895, 1906-1910, and for South Shields 1918-1922. He died 16th April 1929, in Southwark, London. Stan

In a message dated 12/10/2007 15:27:12 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: The Seaman's United Protection Society would be a Friendly Society, ______________________________________________________________________________ _______ Hi Allan, Sorry, that is not correct, it was not a Friendly Society, it was a national Trade Society formed in 1851 as a direct result of the 1850 Mercantile Marine Act, and was apparently confined to the coal trade. The Sunderland Seamen's Society was a branch long before the National Amalgamated Sailors and Firemen's Union of Great Britain and Ireland. One of the rules was that no member of the society was to sail in any ship from the North East ports, or any port where branch societies existed, unless the crews were all members of the society, and each member had to produce his medal before signing articles. Stan

Hi Allan, The Seaman's United Protection Society would be a Friendly Society, not a union. A friendly society was a voluntary mutual organisation whose main purpose is to assist members (usually financially) during sickness, unemployment or retirement, and to provide life assurance. Friendly societies have been governed by legislation in the United Kingdom for more than 200 years, the first Friendly Society Act was introduced in 1793. Joseph Havelock Wilson, 29, created the National Amalgamated Sailors and Firemen's Union of Great Britain and Ireland, in 1887, from his temperance hotel and coffee shop at 174 High Street East. It was succeeded in 1893 by the National Sailors and Firemen's Union, the name was changed to The National Union of Seamen in 1926. In 1990 the union amalgamated with the National Union of Railwaymen to form the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers. Stan

>From ancient times, the coroner was asked to undertake an investigation "upon a view of the body." Before the 20th century, this view was sometimes held at the site of the body's discovery, or in a public meeting place such as a tavern. Stan

Thank you for the reply Stan. Do you know if I can trace anything about the inquest? Are inquest records still kept anywhere? If not were there any local newspapers around that date (1848) which may have reported it? It looks as if he was drowned on 4th so his body may have been recovered quickly if he was buried on the 6th. I asked about his son taking over as he was a shipwright aged 34 in Sth Hylton on the 1841 Census so must have left his job to become a keelman when his father died. Would that have paid better? Judy

Hello List, My ancestor JOHN REED b1783 at Monkwearmouth was a Keelman or Waterman at South Hylton. He died in 1848. Re: St Mary's Parish Records Sth Hylton Entry 792: October 4th 1848 John Reed (Keelman) drowned in river South Hylton buried October 6th aged 66. Joseph Law Incumbent. Does any one know if there may be anything more written about him anywhere or if there would have been an inquest in those days. I see his son William then took over as a Keelman - was this usual? Judy

Hi Judy, >From the 19th century a newspaper report is your best bet. Sunderland Local Studies Centre has copies of the local papers from 1831 I don't know what the relative wages were for a Keelman and a Shipwright. Stan

In a message dated 11/10/2007 15:40:32 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Does any one know if there may be anything more written about him anywhere or if there would have been an inquest in those days. I see his son William then took over as a Keelman - was this usual? _____________________________________________________________ Hi Judy, Yes, there would have been an inquest, usually held in a pub. In the 19th Century, public houses were preferred as Coroner's courts because of their size and other facilities. As I understand it the general requirement was that an inquest was held immediately upon the notice to the coroner of the death or discovery of the dead body. The inquest could either take place in the territory of the coroner in whose jurisdiction the body was found or where the death itself took place. The general practice was that the jury should be sworn in the presence of the body. Apparently statutes required that the coroner and jury must have a view of the body together except in cases where the body could not be found or was too decomposed for view. The purpose of this inspection was to ascertain from the appearance of the body how the death was caused. The jury also heard the summaries of various medical reports regarding the condition of the body to help it reach its determinations concerning the cause of death. There is nothing unusual in a son following his father in a job. The Keelmen were the principal means of supplying the port's coal until the 1850s, and had a monopolistic power, but eventually lost their livelihood with the opening of the staiths. Stan

My 3x great grandmother committed suicide in Bishopwearmouth in 1864...from the death cert I knew there was an inquest & finally contacted the newspaper (Echo?) & email their archives...a very nice man found an article in the newspaper & copied it & mailed it to me. But that is news that the body was usually at the inquest!! Nothing was mentioned about that in the article, but her daughter was allowed to testify as was a neighbor who first talked to my ancestor (she took arsenic). And the inquest was held at the Lansdowne Arms Pub on Deptford rd. Try the papers.... janet [email protected] wrote: In a message dated 11/10/2007 15:40:32 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Does any one know if there may be anything more written about him anywhere or if there would have been an inquest in those days. I see his son William then took over as a Keelman - was this usual? _____________________________________________________________ Hi Judy, Yes, there would have been an inquest, usually held in a pub. In the 19th Century, public houses were preferred as Coroner's courts because of their size and other facilities. As I understand it the general requirement was that an inquest was held immediately upon the notice to the coroner of the death or discovery of the dead body. The inquest could either take place in the territory of the coroner in whose jurisdiction the body was found or where the death itself took place. The general practice was that the jury should be sworn in the presence of the body. Apparently statutes required that the coroner and jury must have a view of the body together except in cases where the body could not be found or was too decomposed for view. The purpose of this inspection was to ascertain from the appearance of the body how the death was caused. The jury also heard the summaries of various medical reports regarding the condition of the body to help it reach its determinations concerning the cause of death. There is nothing unusual in a son following his father in a job. The Keelmen were the principal means of supplying the port's coal until the 1850s, and had a monopolistic power, but eventually lost their livelihood with the opening of the staiths. Stan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Listers, I need a bit of help with the CARR Family of Gateshead and Southwick. Herbert Carr b. 1890 Gateshead Married Mar 1908 Rosina Parker JENNINGS b.1888. Herbert I believe was a Funeral Director in Southwick about 1930 -40's plus. Rosina had a very large shop selling Crockery among others. same period. Anyone connected with these Family please make contact with me. Regards with thanks. Bert C.

Hello can Anyone help.. How would I beable to trace the world war 2 Army records of my grandfather he was a Royal Engineer Driver and he sadly died in 1992 Many Thanks Lee

In a message dated 08/10/2007 20:26:50 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: How would I beable to trace the world war 2 Army records of my grandfather he was a Royal Engineer Driver and he sadly died in 1992 ________________________________________________ Hi Lee, You could try the Army Personnel Centre Historical Disclosures MP 400, Kentigern House 65 Brown Street Glasgow G2 8EX Tel: 0845 600 9663 Email: [email protected] Stan

Hi Thomas Augustine Ridley married Anne Pickering in 1841 in Sunderland does any one have knowledge of this family please or be related Regards Ruth Ridley

Hi Stan That is amazing. Being a complete dummy when it comes to mines. Does that mean the family owned all those mines or were they for some reason named after the family. It has me quite intrigued. Many thanks for the info. Pam New Zealand. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.3/1054 - Release Date: 06/10/2007 7:12 p.m.

In a message dated 07/10/2007 10:05:15 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: That is amazing. Being a complete dummy when it comes to mines. Does that mean the family owned all those mines or were they for some reason named after the family. _____________________________________________________________ Hi Pam, They were not named after the family, they were named after the Hutton coal seam to which they gave access. Hutton Drift Lanchester, was at the Hamsteels Colliery Hutton Pit Annfield Plain, was at the South Derwent Colliery Hutton Pit Cockfield, was at New Copley Colliery Hutton Seam Drift, Cockfield, was the Butterknowle Colliery Co. Ltd. Hutton Henry Colliery, at Hutton Henry, nr. Wingate Hutton Henry is a village the name comes from the ancient manor of Hoton(a), which was held by Henry de Essh in the 14th century. Stan

Hi Stan Many thanks for that information on the HUTTON's, much appreciated. That is far more than my friend ever knew about the family. Was there ever a coal mine named HUTTON or is that a heresay story she thought she heard as a child. There maybe were children call Maureen and Hugh attached to the family. As I said the information she had was very skettchy, but with the info you have given we maybe able to trace a few more bit 'n pieces. Once again many thanks Pam New Zealand -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.1/1050 - Release Date: 04/10/2007 5:03 p.m.

Hi Pam, There were also theses mines in County Durham Hutton Drift Lanchester Hutton Henry Colliery Hutton Henry, nr. Wingate Hutton Pit Annfield Plain Hutton Pit Cockfield Hutton Seam Drift Cockfield http://www.dmm.org.uk/ Stan

Could someone suggest the easiest location to inquire of Death and Burial Records for Richard Coates, husband to Elizabeth (Field) Coates, b. abt. 1781 Bishopwearmouth and married July 23, 1801 Bishopwearmouth. I believe he was a shoemaker. In the late 1790's, was shoemaking an apprenticed profession and if so would there be some record of that? Thanks, Susan Canada.

In a message dated 06/10/2007 20:01:35 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Was there ever a coal mine named HUTTON or is that a heresay story she thought she heard as a child. ____________________________________________________________________ Hi Pam, The Hutton Seam was one of the main coal seams in the Durham Coal Field. Stan

First time on this list and trying to help a computerless friend untangle her family. Have a few names and would be very grateful if any one has them in their tree that would help her. The dates are in the early 1900's Matthew HUTTON married Barbara approx 1900's Children: Thomas HUTTON married Annie and had Margaret and Hugh Margaret had one child, Hugh had a few children Bessie HUTTON married GARDNER - no children Susan HUTTON married BONNIFACE - no known children Elliott HUTTON married maybe Ethel - no known children. The family owned or worked in the mines, the town of Gateshead is some how in the puzzle. Know it is not much information but it is all we can find to start with. Grateful for any help or directing us on to the right path. Pam New Zealand -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.1/1050 - Release Date: 04/10/2007 5:03 p.m.