In a message dated 22/11/2007 08:20:01 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: have only seen one reply on the list, so have no idea what other people have said, however I would think that this could be to do with "beating the bounds" of the parish, also known as perambulation. Church Warden's accounts often refer to expenses incurred in perambulations. ______________________________________________________________________________ _______ Grassmen's Accounts.--Vol. 1. 1837 02 MAY , By Do for Boundary Cake, 5s. By Do for Drums & Wates, 5s. By Do for Two Hats & Two Ribbands to Run for at Bounders, 4s. By Do for Ale, Bread, & Chease for Bounders, 11s. 6d. By Do for Bounder Dinner, 1l. 1s. By Do for Priest, Clerk, Drummers, & Wates Dinner, 12s. By Do for Jingle Pot, 1s. These expenses were for the "beating the bounds" of the parish, or 'perambulation', which was a ritual processions when people would mark their parish boundaries, defining the community's identity against that of neighbouring parishes, and symbolising its own unity and charity. This took place at Rogationtide which is the three days preceding Ascension Day. The 30th April 1837 was Rogation Sunday, and 4th May was Ascension Day, so the 2nd. May in the Accounts was the Tuesday in Rogationtide. Stan

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Orton" > Can anyone tell me what a jingle pot was or what/who bounders were, > please? Cant help with a jingle pot but a bounder was a tin miner. The name was coined from the means of marking the boundary of their mining plot. They stood and threw stones to mark the "bounds" of where they had the right to mine. Life consists not in holding good cards but in playing those you hold well. -- Josh Billings Keep Looking For Rainbows!! _--_|\ /Karen \ \ _.--._ / v Karen,

In a message dated 21/11/2007 20:44:46 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: The Grassmen's Accounts for Durham St Giles listed on the Ancestry UK website, I found someone had been paid one shilling for a 'Jingle Pot' in 1837. The Grassmen's Accounts were published in 1896 as Vol 95 of the Surtees Society publications, and it is no doubt that which you have found on Ancestry. On page 117 of that book (note 2) it says, as a comment on the phrase "Jingle-Pot" ("By d[itt]o - ie by cash - for a Jingle Pot, 1s" in accounts dated 1798: "Jingle-cap, shake-cap, a pitman's and keelman's game (Sc Jingle-the bonnet). Brockett. "Jingle-the-Bonnet. - Two or more put a halfpenny or other coin each into a cap or bonnet, and after jingling or shaking them together throw them on the ground, and he who has the most heads when it is his turn to jingle wins the stakes that were put into the bonnet". - Jamieson. "The editor has been informed by an old inhabitant of Gilligate that there still exists somewhere in the parish a pewter pot, called the "Jingling pot", which was formerly used on Bounder Day for collecting money in from the "riders" both during the peramulation and at the dinner afterwards at the 'Britannia', and that it used also to be placed on the ground for the reception of coins, which were thrown into it from a distance." This seems to confirm that "Bounders" was the day of Riding the Bounds (sometimes called "Beating the Bounds", of the parish, an annual event in many places. The explanation connected with lead mining is unlikely as the nearest lead mines to Gilesgate were in Stanhope in Weardale, over 30 (? a guess) miles to the west, whereas Gilesgate itself was dominated by coal mining, a quite different type of mining. Incidentally "The editor" of that Surtees Society volume was Rev J Barmby. Geoff Nicholson

In a message dated 21/11/2007 20:44:56 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: paid one shilling for a 'Jingle Pot' in 1837. _______________________________________________________ Hi Mary, I have found this reference; "half sack of Jingle Pot Lump Coal" - I don't know if it is relevant Stan

Just to add that a Grassman was a man who took charge of the common lands of a parish. Stan

In a message dated 21/11/2007 23:52:57 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Thank you all for your replies - very interesting! ______________________________________________________________________________ _ Hi Mary, I have only seen one reply on the list, so have no idea what other people have said, however I would think that this could be to do with "beating the bounds" of the parish, also known as perambulation. Church Warden's accounts often refer to expenses incurred in perambulations. Stan

Thank you all for your replies - very interesting! I can understand the relevance of the term 'bounders', but I wonder why a teapot be called a 'jingle pot'? Very odd! ------------- Stan, I found them under the Ancestry main heading 'England Historical Records', in the section headed 'Durham, England: Parish and Probate Records', while searching for the name 'John Atkinson'. Hope this helps. Regards, Mary O

The Grassmen's Accounts for Durham St Giles listed on the Ancestry UK website, I found someone had been paid one shilling for a 'Jingle Pot' in 1837. Also listed are payments of four shillings for 'Two Hats & Two Ribbands to Run for at Bounders' and eleven shillings and sixpence for 'Ale, Bread, & Chease for Bounders', plus various other payments 'for Bounders'. Can anyone tell me what a jingle pot was or what/who bounders were, please? Mary Orton

In a message dated 21/11/2007 20:44:56 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: The Grassmen's Accounts for Durham St Giles listed on the Ancestry UK website, I found someone had been paid one shilling for a 'Jingle Pot' in 1837. ______________________________________________________________ Hi Mary, Can you give the URL for this, as I can't see them on Ancestry Stan

Thanks Stan I feel better that everyone seems to be guessing what it means but at least now I know I am not imagining things. It appears on other message boards and other counties too when I did the search you suggested. I will leave it alone now and continue on trying to find elusive ancestors. Thanks to all who helped Wendy No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1136 - Release Date: 11/17/2007 2:55 PM

Thank you Geoff and Stan for your prompt replies. I am not transcribing the whole register (I have done parts of others in the past as time allows). I am looking for the birth of Thomas Cotton born 1800. He married in Monkwearmouth in 1827. I have his death cert which states he was aged 49 when he died in 1849, Ballast Hills, Bishopwearmouth, a fireteaser. No birthplace was stated on either record so it's like a needle in a haystack. As I was searching I kept looking for other family names including Haugh, Cotton, Dixon and Maw which may help me later. I always though it was better to get as close to the original as I could get - which is why I am checking microfilms at the LDS. Although this one has been re written out as the original register was too hard to read apparently. Stan the "Ped" appears on both marriage and baptism records and has also occurred in other churches Robinson Lane Chapel entry Jan 25 1835 Rosina D Thos Dixon keel Eliz Haugh Ped 1838 Bap Sunderland Parish Register Marriage entry Sep 10 1826 Thomas Dixon Eliz Haugh (tick) Ped Geoff you made some great suggestions about visiting the Sunderland Library and other sources which I would dearly love to but unfortunately I live in New Zealand. I will follow up the Northfiche idea which was new to me. I can get it sent over to NZ and read it in the library. Would be wonderful if it was on disk. Again thanks for the suggestions. It is only a minor thing and probably not overly relevant. Just one of those things that I wanted to solve. Wendy Sunny Invercargill New Zealand No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1136 - Release Date: 11/17/2007 2:55 PM

Greetings form NZ, researching SMITH in Nbl Staring with Henry c1757 Others include: Gale - Middis - Robson - Jackson - Hedley - Ramsay - Quenet - McLeod - Hudson - Tomlinson - Davidson - Seery - Race - Hibbert - Carrington - Renwick - Cheesbrough - Clark - Waldie - Haigh - Tarbox - Sadler - Faas - Blyths - Rutherfords - Chris Smith

Hi Wendy, Go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search and enter the keyword- 'ped' parish register - you will see that this question has been asked before on the Northumbria list with various explanations. Stan

Hi, Sorry for the of topic post but this seems to be the best place to ask. Have any of the MAC users out there managed to see the maps and photos from this site: http://www.dur.ac.uk/picturesinprint/ ? And if so how? I have never managed to get it to work for me, any help would be gratefully received. Yours in hope, Julie ===== Interests: COLLINS, WRIGHT - Sunderland, Newcastle (Durham & Northumberland) WALKER, SHAW, TARLTON - Kimberley Greasely (Notts) LANDER, TWIGG - Belper, Longford (Derbys)

Hi, my sister--law has just bought a birth certificate of one of her ancestors ,and the address is Palins Passage I have a few old maps of Sunderland but cannot find this on any of them Sub District on birth certificate is Sunderland East in the county Borough of Sunderland Does any one know where it was Many thanks for any help given Doris

In a message dated 17/11/2007 14:56:16 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Had a relative die there, was a Seaman Merchant Service. _________________________________________________________________________ Hi Barbara, He might not have been in the Workhouse, as there was a Hospital attached to it called the Highfield Hospital. Although the building remained predominantly a Poor Law Institution a small number of beds were set aside for the sick and mentally ill. Is the information from a Death Certificate? Stan

Hi Barbara, Go to http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ Click on Workhouse Locations; English Poor Law Unions; County Durham; Sunderland. Stan

The date was 1867 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Hi Barbara, What was the date? Stan

Can anyone tell me anything about the Union Workhouse?? Had a relative die there, was a Seaman Merchant Service. Was it for all mariners?? Was it a poorhouse :-) Thanks.. Barbara in Tennessee ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com