In a message dated 07/12/2007 20:39:01 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I have recently found a reference to Thomas SHOUT at the baptism of his children in the 1790's (at Spring Garden Lane Chapel) he is noted as Land Surveyor at the Customs House in Sunderland. Can anyone suggest whether this means that he was employed by HMC for the purpose of levying tax on property perhaps? rgds Alan Alan: Given that he worked for HM Customs, it seems to me that he was probably more of a "Land Waiter", ie a Customs Officer who was concerned with the payment of dues arising from land-based activities, such as the manufacture of eg paper. This was as compared to a "Tide Waiter", who was concerned with duties applying to goods brought into the country via a port. Otherwise a "conventional land-surveyor" would most probably have been self-employed, having contracts with some of the large estates. There were very few of those, ones such as the Bells (a family business) of Tyneside predominating. It was only with the Tithe maps of the early 1840s, and then with the Ordnance Survey of the 1850s onwards that the sort of people one thinks of as land surveyors became numerous - their ranks to be further boosted when local authorities came into being, with their panoply of planning departments etc. Geoff Nicholson Former Professional Genealogist but now happily retired after over 30 years in practice!

My apologies for any confusion caused when my enthusiam got the better of me and I pressed send before entering the subject line! rgds Alan researching SHOUT anywhere/anywhen GRAINGER & HOWELL Robin Hoods Bay & DUR SANDERSON - Norham NBL 19th Century WALKER - Blyth 1880-1920 HODGSON/HUDSON - NRY 1850 - 1900/ South Shields 1900-1930 GIBBISON - South Shields AIR - NBL AUGUST - South Shields 1850 - 1930 ___________________________________________________________ Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/

I have recently found a reference to Thomas SHOUT at the baptism of his children in the 1790's (at Spring Garden Lane Chapel) he is noted as Land Surveyor at the Customs House in Sunderland. Can anyone suggest whether this means that he was employed by HMC for the purpose of levying tax on property perhaps? rgds Alan researching SHOUT anywhere/anywhen GRAINGER & HOWELL Robin Hoods Bay & DUR SANDERSON - Norham NBL 19th Century WALKER - Blyth 1880-1920 HODGSON/HUDSON - NRY 1850 - 1900/ South Shields 1900-1930 GIBBISON - South Shields AIR - NBL AUGUST - South Shields 1850 - 1930 __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

Hi Alan, It could be that he was working for the Surveyor General of Land Revenues. The holders of this post, also known as Surveyor General of Crown Lands, became responsible for surveying and valuing crown property and for determining the terms and conditions of leases. Stan

Hi All, I have a Durham ancestor Joseph Dove born c1797 and died between 1851/61 whose occupation on the 1841 census is Navy and the 1851, Mariner. In 1841 his address was Wear St, B/W and in 1851 Pemberton St, B/W. Could anyone tell me what perhaps would his job ( apart from the obvious :)) entail? Regards Viv.

Geoff I always record both page and schedule number - on the premis that the more info the better! I also have the HO 107 or the RG number on the front However when I was working from the indexes created by the NDFHS, only the page number is given in many cases - so some of my records still need to be updated Heather

A Mariner, or sailor, was a general term for any person employed on a sea-going ship, or if on river traffic a general term applicable to any member of the deck crew of any type of vessel. A Master Mariner, held a master's or extra master's certificate issued by the Board of Trade, and was in supreme command of the vessel on a voyage. Stan

In a message dated 02/12/2007 23:46:19 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: i could glean some more information from the parish register. ______________________________________________________________________________ __ Under Hardwicke's Marriage Act 1753, the information recorded in the register is the names of the bride and groom, the date and place, whether the marriage was by banns or licence, the consent of the parents if either of the couple were under the age of 21, the marital status of the bride and groom, and the names of witnesses. Parents names are not given. Stan

Hi Everyone, would someone please be able to look up a marriage for me between Joseph Dove and Eliza/Elizabeth Williamson 24 Apr 1825 Bishopwearmouth. I have this info from the Joiner Marriage Index and was hoping i could glean some more information from the parish register. Best Regards Viv.

Hi Geoff, I'm not sure what you mean, but the page numbers in each piece which consists of a number of enumerator's books will not be unique in themselves, but are when combined with a folio number, except for the 1841 census where the foliation starts with each enumerators book, so is duplicated in each book. However for the 1851 and later censuses the Piece is foliated as a whole from the first folio in the first enumerator's book to the last folio in the last enumerator's book. The Schedule numbers are not unique, the same as page numbers, usually starting at 1 in each book. Just to mention that the Piece numbers for the 1841 and 1851 are consecutive, starting at 1466 for the 1851 census. Stan

While the List is quiet (it is, isn't it - or am I missing something?), perhaps some members would like to consider what is a relatively minor matter, but one that has been exercising my mind of late. We are told by TNA and other authorities that the correct way to give a reference to a census entry (1851-1901) is "Piece/Folio/Page". Not having had the benefit of that advice when I set up my own "systems", and having thought out things for myself, I decided to use "Piece/Folio/Schedule", omitting the "HO 107" or "RG --" part of the piece number. Now, it seems fairly obvious that any reference must begin with the piece number. followed by the folio number, and perhaps you might think that whatever comes after the folio number is not very important. However, when I was a beginner I was told that referring to page numbers is to be avoided, as there would be several books to each piece of the census, and so a page number within any particular book would be ambiguous. The schedule number pins down the reference to one household, which is usually what is required anyway, whereas TNA's system never gives you anything better than an ambiguity level of one page. What do you think? NB there are no schedule numbers for the 1841 census, for which I use "Piece/Part/Folio", which seems to be standard Geoff Nicholson

Hi Julie >>>>"Matrimonium contraseit cum Ernest LYNN in St Michaelis" (13 July 1915).>>>> Afraid I do not know the actual translation word for word but in general it means the marriage took place between Sarah GLENDENNING and Ernest LYNN in St. Michael's on 13 July 1915 I have come across these margin entries quite a few times in the Catholic Parish records. I have also noticed later baptisms sometimes show the confirmation date of that person. Sue Sunderland Researching: POLLEY, OLD, CARTLEDGE, CALVERT, TAYLOR, NEASHAM, AYRE, PESTELL, BRANTON, LINCOLN, GANLEY, FLAHERTY, BAINBRIDGE, FORSTER, GREEN, BLANCHFLOWER, BOOTH, EMBLING, CARR, FINNEGAN, HALL, HUNTER, KELLY, RICHARDS, BLAKELOCK, ROWE, RUTHERFORD, STEWART, COCKERILL. Places: ESSEX, SUNDERLAND, NORFOLK, DURHAM, IRELAND, SCOTLAND.

In a message dated 24/11/2007 23:49:14 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: "Matrimonium contraseit ____________________________________________________________ Hi Julie, "matrimonium contraxerunt" means they contracted marriage, cum mean with. Stan

Hi I wonder if anyone can help me with a notation I found on film of register from St Michaels RC parish church, Houghton I have managed to decipher the habitual Latin for births, marriages and deaths, however there is a much later entry next to my great grandmother Sarah GLENDENNINGs baptism. It's helpful because it obviously relates to her marriage and gives me a date but I was wondering what the entry means - its something like "Matrimonium contraseit cum Ernest LYNN in St Michaelis" (13 July 1915). Anyone know what this means? I've tried googling without a lot of success! Regards Julie

Intrigued by a town or village name in England? The Key to English Place-Names offers answers. http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/english/ins/epncurrent/keytoepn.html Durham is at http://cameron.english.nottingham.ac.uk/GENmap1/maps.jsp?county=DRH Stan

Thanks again, Stan and Geoff. I like your logic, Geoff! I'd imagined 'Cranford'-style parsimony and tight-lipped disapproval of such frivolities would have prevailed at that time, but Stan has quoted in his latest post from the same 1837 record that prompted my original questions, and it seems that the whole business of 'Beating of the Bounds' was an excuse for a very jolly occasion. I now have visions of revelry similar to Mayday celebrations taking place, with mounds of bread and cheese, followed by cakes and ale galore, with pots a-jingling and lively jigs performed on village greens! I don't suppose these events still take place? If not, perhaps they should be revived. Mary O

Hi everyone, It may be of interest that Nanaimo on Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada originated in the latter 19th/early 20th centuries as a coal mining town. There was a Jingle Pot Mine, and the name Jingle Pot continues as a district in Nanaimo, an important road, and a pub, among other things. Many of the miners were from "the old country" (Great Britain). If anyone has relatives who they can't find, it is possible they went to work in the coal mines of Vancouver Island. Free searches can be conducted on-line through British Columbia Vital Events Indexes (deaths 1872-1986, marriages 1872-1931, and births 1872-1903). In addition to the 1881 Census (LDS site), there is free 1901 and 1911 census information on-line for British Columbia (for the latter two, you may have to search by location, rather than name). Besides Nanaimo, other coal mining locations on Vancouver Island were Ladysmith and Cumberland. Dave Thompson Edmonton, Canada This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and or privileged information. Please contact us immediately if you are not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.

Thank you very much, Stan and Geoff, for your replies. I find it fascinating to learn about such details of life in County Durham in days past. I'd heard of 'Beating the Bounds' and guessed that the 'Bounders' mentioned might have something to do with that, but I wasn't sure. As to what a jingle pot might have been, Durham Mining Museum's website mentions a 'Jingle Pot Level' in a Swaledale lead ore mine at Marrick, so perhaps it was a term commonly used by miners of all minerals in the North and amongst mining communities for the container used in the coin-throwing game. I'm now wondering what happened to the coins collected on Bounder Day in the pot paid for by the Parish. Surely there must have been a reason other than 'winner-takes-all' gambling for collecting the money. Would it have gone into Parish funds? It seems unlikely it was used, as raffle prizes are today, at the dinner at the 'Britannia' (which I assume was an inn or public house)? Regards, Mary O

In a message dated 22/11/2007 11:32:40 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I'm now wondering what happened to the coins collected on Bounder Day in the pot paid for by the Parish. Surely there must have been a reason other than 'winner-takes-all' gambling for collecting the money. Would it have gone into Parish funds? It seems unlikely it was used, as raffle prizes are today, at the dinner at the 'Britannia' Mary: Since we have (a) money and (b) a pub, no more need be said! One way or another, I'm sure the money would have ended up "behind the bar". Remember that we are talking about the days of the Regency, when all manner of drinking and feasting seem to have been the done things, at least among those who could afford it, possibly even more so than today. Geoff Nicholson

My Great Great Grandfather William Rogers, seemingly moved from Sunderland to Hartlepool, with one of his daughters Eliza Ann around 1881.I thnk Eliza married a man by the name of Wilkinson and they had a daughter called Elizabeth. When Elizabeth married she had 3 daughters, Mary, Ann and Joan and sons (names not known) but the surname was Griffin.Any help on this family would be appreciated as I am trying to plan the Rogers family tree. Regards to all from Ann in Australia