Thanks very much Stan! To make sure I have understood, a Beer House Keeper would sell beer from a residential house, rather than it being a business premisis like a pub or tavern? Would a Beer House Keeper sell to the public, or pubs/taverns, or both? Would people come in and drink on the premisis, or buy and take away? Many thanks for your help, I really appreciate it! Sarah On 15/12/2007, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > In a message dated 15/12/2007 09:07:11 GMT Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > Would a Beer House Keeper in 1896 be a publican? > > _____________________________________________________________________________ > > Hi Sarah, > A Publican is a person who owns or manages a public house or tavern. A > beer-house, is house that is only licensed for the sale of beer, but not > of > spirits. > > Stan > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Red Briar Bank ran north from Pity Me, this was the Great North Road. Stan

As far as I can see Red Briar was the name of a House. Stan

Hello, My 4xgreat grandparents John Wilcock and Sarah Tinmouth were married at St. Peters, Monkwearmouth on 8 April 1798. I have got this information from the IGI and would be very grateful if someone could confirm this and provide me with full details. I know that John was a shipwright and him and Sarah were probably born in the 1770s. However, I have been unable to find their baptisms or deaths. I would be very grateful for any help. I also know the couple had at least three children - Mary (25 August 1799), Margaret (23 Nov 1810) & Sarah (13 May 1810 - my 3xgreat grandmother who married David REMMER in 1834), all baptised in St. Peter's. Again, I would be very grateful to have these confirmed and receive full details in the hope that it may help me find John & Sarah. They may also have had more children? Thanks in advance for any help received, Regards, Mark Etheridge.

Hi Sarah, Liquor licensing legislation in this country is extremely complex. The Beer House Act 1830 enabled any householder of reputable character to obtain a beer house licence for a tenement or dwelling of rateable value, by merely paying the small sum of two guineas to the Excise. This meant that more or less anybody could obtain a licence to sell beer without the necessity of having to apply to magistrates, in contrast to a licensed victualler who could sell all types of drink. This Act opened the floodgates to a spectacular proliferation of decidedly downmarket drinking-dens, most of them in the front rooms of terraced houses. The Act was repealed by the 1869 Wine and Beerhouse Act (32 and 33 Vic. c.27) which re-introduced the stricter controls of the previous century. It was now necessary for retailers selling beer and wine to obtain their licenses from justices, and in addition, it was also necessary to obtain similar licenses to sell alcohol off the premises. Stan

In a message dated 15/12/2007 09:07:11 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Would a Beer House Keeper in 1896 be a publican? _____________________________________________________________________________ Hi Sarah, A Publican is a person who owns or manages a public house or tavern. A beer-house, is house that is only licensed for the sale of beer, but not of spirits. Stan

Thanks Stan I was hoping that if he was a Beer House Keeper, that would be a publican and perhaps the pub was called the Feather(s) looks like the registrar was just having a squirly writing day :o) Would a Beer House Keeper in 1896 be a publican? I am trying to find out more about William Murrell, I have the family story with him being born in France and information from the Murrell One Name study who say he was born in Bethnal Green. The family story has him as a Vinter (wine taster/merchant). On his marriage certificate he is listed as an Agent, that was Jan 1896 in Newcastle, then he is a Beer House Keeper by the end of the same year in Sunderland. By 1901 he was no longer with Margaret Coutts and I can find no trace of him so far on the 1901 census. Any advice welcomed, many thanks Sarah On 14/12/2007, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > It will be 'Father' 24 Robinson Terrace. The requirement in Column 7 is > the > Signature, description and residence of informant. The description of the > informant in this case is 'father'. In other cases it will be 'mother'. > > Stan > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 15/12/2007 12:08:19 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I know that John was a shipwright and him and Sarah were probably born in the 1770s. However, I have been unable to find their baptisms or deaths. I would be very grateful for any help. If they were born in the 1770s and were baptised in Monkwearmouth St Peter's parish church, you may not be able to find the records of it. St Peter's registers were destroyed in a fire in c1791. An attempt was made later to reconstruct the registers from information handed in by parishioners, taken from eg their family Bibles. Although about three notebooks were filled with such information, they were never written up in chronological order as in a register, and still haven't been in spite of several people to my knowledge having claimed they were about to do so in recent years. It is therefore necessary to work through the three notebooks, filled with fairly random entries, which are now in Durham County Record Office, where they have been microfilmed. Even then, only a small proportion of the entries likely to have existed in the original registers will be accounted for by those "notebook entries". Another approach to finding the baptisms would be to use the BTs. However, for Durham Diocese they do not begin until the 1760s and for the first few years - say up to 1780 - they are very patchy, with some whole years missed out and other years probably incomplete. You should therefore be hoping they were not born in Monkwearmouth parish, Fortunately their childrens' baptisms, as listed in your e-mail, show that they would have been baptised during the "Barrington period" 1798-1812, when quite a lot of information is given for each baptism. That is far more than on the IGI or almost any other transcript or index and it should include a note of the parish of which each parent was a native. That is, the parish where they themselves had been born. Geoff Nicholson

In a message dated 15/12/2007 12:08:12 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: , I have been unable to find their baptisms or deaths. I would be very grateful for any help. _______________________________________________________________________ I don't know if you are aware that "In 1790, the (Monkwearmouth) parish registers were destroyed by the fire which broke out in the Hall, then the residence of the minister, excepting the register of Marriages from 16th October 1785, of Baptisms from 2nd September 1779, and of Burials from 3rd January 1768."[From History, Topography and Directory of Durham, Whellan, London, 1894] Stan

Hi all I wondered if someone may be able to help? I have just received my gr grandmothers birth certificate. Daisy Eugenie Murrell was born in 1896 in South Bishopwearmouth at 24 Robinson Terrace. Her father William Murrell is listed as a *Beer House Keeper* and he is the informant, listed at *Feather, 24 Robinson Terrace*. I have searched google and Historical Directories but haven't been able to find any further information on this. I wondered if any listers had any information they might be willing to share? Many thanks Sarah

It will be 'Father' 24 Robinson Terrace. The requirement in Column 7 is the Signature, description and residence of informant. The description of the informant in this case is 'father'. In other cases it will be 'mother'. Stan

Sorry to say that my Mum Winnie Overend nee Stoddart passed away 6 am UK time today Monday 12th December Sadly she was 2 months short of her 100th birthday but until recently she had marvellous recall of the town she loved -Sunderland At times I have shared her anecdotes with this list and know that she used to enjoy the discussions from the list as I often printed them out to read to her Is there a way to go to digest mode before I leave for Sunderland on Thursday as i may not be able to accsess my emails while I am away Thanks Pat Phillips

Sincere sympathy, Pat I know how you feel as I lost my 93 year old Mam Nancy Hailes [nee Harwood] last year. She just loved the fact that I was finding out about her family history, and added much meat to the bare bones of my research Happily she had emigrated to be with us in Canada, so wasn't alone Take care and stay safe Heather Pat & Derek wrote: > Sorry to say that my Mum Winnie Overend nee Stoddart passed away 6 am UK > time today Monday 12th December > >

Pat, Sincere condolences. I've e-mailed you privately. Mary Orton

Stan & Geoff thank you both for further insight into the workings of the Customs house at Sunderland. I certainly have something to get my teeth into - then all I have to do is connect him to the main "branch" of the family tree. rgds Alan researching SHOUT anywhere/anywhen GRAINGER & HOWELL Robin Hoods Bay & DUR SANDERSON - Norham NBL 19th Century WALKER - Blyth 1880-1920 HODGSON/HUDSON - NRY 1850 - 1900/ South Shields 1900-1930 GIBBISON - South Shields AIR - NBL AUGUST - South Shields 1850 - 1930 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 05:01:06 EST From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND] LAND SURVEYOR To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 07/12/2007 20:39:01 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I have recently found a reference to Thomas SHOUT at the baptism of his children in the 1790's (at Spring Garden Lane Chapel) he is noted as Land Surveyor at the Customs House in Sunderland. Can anyone suggest whether this means that he was employed by HMC for the purpose of levying tax on property perhaps? rgds Alan Alan: Given that he worked for HM Customs, it seems to me that he was probably more of a "Land Waiter", ie a Customs Officer who was concerned with the payment of dues arising from land-based activities, such as the manufacture of eg paper. This was as compared to a "Tide Waiter", who was concerned with duties applying to goods brought into the country via a port. Otherwise a "conventional land-surveyor" would most probably have been self-employed, having contracts with some of the large estates. There were very few of those, ones such as the Bells (a family business) of Tyneside predominating. It was only with the Tithe maps of the early 1840s, and then with the Ordnance Survey of the 1850s onwards that the sort of people one thinks of as land surveyors became numerous - their ranks to be further boosted when local authorities came into being, with their panoply of planning departments etc. Geoff Nicholson Former Professional Genealogist but now happily retired after over 30 years in practice! ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 09:21:24 EST From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND] LAND SURVEYOR To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" It is "Landing Surveyor" not land surveyor. A landing-surveyor was a customs officer who appointed and superintended the landing waiters. A landing-waiter was a customs officer whose duty was to superintend the landing of goods and to examine them; Stan ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:20:37 EST From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND] LAND SURVEYOR To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In 1856 the establishment of the Sunderland Custom House was a Comptroller, a Landing Surveyor, six clerks, five searchers, thirty lockers, weighers, and tide-waiters, four tide-surveyors, and one messenger. A Locker was an officer at the Custom House, in charge of a locked-up warehouse, acting under the warehouse-keeper. A Tide-waiter was a customs officer who awaited the arrival of ships (formerly coming in with the tide), and boarded them to prevent evasion of the Custom House regulations, they were supervised by a Tide-surveyor. Surprisingly there are no landing-waiters mentioned, it seems that at time the Landing Surveyor was, in effect, the assistant comptroller. Stan ------------------------------ __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

Thanks Stan an interesting line to follow up - I will have to see if TNA have anything relevant rgds Alan >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:40:33 EST >From: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND] Missing subject for earlier message. - Land Surveyor- >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Hi Alan, >It could be that he was working for the Surveyor General of Land Revenues. >The holders of this post, also known as Surveyor General of Crown Lands, became >responsible for surveying and valuing crown property and for determining the >terms and conditions of leases. >Stan __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com

Hi Margaret, An Engine Tenter is another name for an engine attendant, engine driver, engine man, engine minder, engine tender, stationary engine driver. A Tenter is someone who minds, or has charge of, anything requiring attention, such as a machine, Stan

I have recieved a census transcription where the father's occupation is listed as "Engine Tenter". Does anyone know what that may have been? It was from the 1851 census for John MATHER in Sunderland. Thanks, Margaret

In 1856 the establishment of the Sunderland Custom House was a Comptroller, a Landing Surveyor, six clerks, five searchers, thirty lockers, weighers, and tide-waiters, four tide-surveyors, and one messenger. A Locker was an officer at the Custom House, in charge of a locked-up warehouse, acting under the warehouse-keeper. A Tide-waiter was a customs officer who awaited the arrival of ships (formerly coming in with the tide), and boarded them to prevent evasion of the Custom House regulations, they were supervised by a Tide-surveyor. Surprisingly there are no landing-waiters mentioned, it seems that at time the Landing Surveyor was, in effect, the assistant comptroller. Stan

It is "Landing Surveyor" not land surveyor. A landing-surveyor was a customs officer who appointed and superintended the landing waiters. A landing-waiter was a customs officer whose duty was to superintend the landing of goods and to examine them; Stan