Thanks Allan I guess I didn't word my initial request well ! I know Abigail BROWN was born in 1867 in Sunderland I can't find her on the 1871 or on the 1881 census I have her in 1891 and 1901 [after her marriage to John Thomas STAMP in 1890] It was the 1871 and 1881 census records I needed help with. Heather > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Heather Punshon <[email protected]> > To: ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND-L <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February, 2008 4:36:59 AM > Subject: [ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND] Help requested re Abigail BROWN b 1867 > > Hello everyone > > I am hoping that someone can help me with Abigail BROWN who married John > Thomas STAMP > on the 21st April 1890 in Sunderland . Her father is given as John > James BROWN. > I had no trouble finding them in 1901 and 1891, however I have not been > able to find an Abigail BROWN born in or near Sunderland in about 1867 > with any parents in either 1881 or 1871 > > Any help is appreciated > > Heather > > 1901 CENSUS > RG 13 piece 4724 folio 192 page 65 Sch 412 > 27 Cleveland Terrace Southwick Monkwearmouth, Sunderland > John STAMP head mar 33 Crane Worker Shipyard worker b Seaham > Abigail STAMP wife mar 34 b Sunderland > John STAMP son 10 b Sunderland > Mary STAMP dau 8 b Sunderland > William STAMP son 5 b Southwick > Norman STAMP son 1 b Southwick > > *************************************** > > 1891 CENSUS > RG 12 piece 4127 folio 32 page 56 > Bishopwearmouth, Sunderland > John T STAMP head mar 25 Crane Man Machinery b Seaham Harbour > Abigail STAMP wife mar 24 b Sunderland > John STAMP son 2 months b Sunderland > > **************************************** > > 1881 > No Abigail BROWN b Sunderland in abt 1867 found in Co Durham or anywhere > > 1871 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

In a message dated 05/02/2008 04:39:48 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I have not been able to find an Abigail BROWN born in or near Sunderland in about 1867 ______________________________________________________________________________ ___ Hi Heather The birth of an Abigail BROWN was registered in Sunderland in the March ¼ 1862 and also in the Mar ¼ 1867 http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ Stan

Hello everyone I am hoping that someone can help me with Abigail BROWN who married John Thomas STAMP on the 21st April 1890 in Sunderland . Her father is given as John James BROWN. I had no trouble finding them in 1901 and 1891, however I have not been able to find an Abigail BROWN born in or near Sunderland in about 1867 with any parents in either 1881 or 1871 Any help is appreciated Heather 1901 CENSUS RG 13 piece 4724 folio 192 page 65 Sch 412 27 Cleveland Terrace Southwick Monkwearmouth, Sunderland John STAMP head mar 33 Crane Worker Shipyard worker b Seaham Abigail STAMP wife mar 34 b Sunderland John STAMP son 10 b Sunderland Mary STAMP dau 8 b Sunderland William STAMP son 5 b Southwick Norman STAMP son 1 b Southwick *************************************** 1891 CENSUS RG 12 piece 4127 folio 32 page 56 Bishopwearmouth, Sunderland John T STAMP head mar 25 Crane Man Machinery b Seaham Harbour Abigail STAMP wife mar 24 b Sunderland John STAMP son 2 months b Sunderland **************************************** 1881 No Abigail BROWN b Sunderland in abt 1867 found in Co Durham or anywhere 1871

Can SKS tell me where an area known as Numbers was in the late 18th century please? Is it still there? I also have several members of the same family at same address (Huddlestone Street) all dying in 1872. Does anyone know of an epidemic then? Very many thanks and best wishes, Karen

Hello All Would somebody please look up the following on the 1861/ 71 Census James Douglass born 1840 ish Scotland Isabella wife born Sunderland. they were Married in 1860 in Sunderland, sorry this is all I have. Many Thanks Allan Robson

In a message dated 04/02/2008 15:18:09 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I also have several members of the same family at same address (Huddlestone Street) all dying in 1872. Does anyone know of an epidemic then? ______________________________________________________________________________ _____ As you probably know whooping cough, measles, scarlet fever, diphtheria, typhus, typhoid, and tuberculosis were endemic. If a number of members of the same family all died at the same time from a disease, then it was usually due to the very poor living conditions, usually all the family living in one room. Stan

In a message dated 04/02/2008 15:18:09 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Can SKS tell me where an area known as Numbers was in the late 18th century please? Is it still there? ____________________________________________________________ Hi Karen, I think you mean Numbers Garth. Numbers Garth was between 158 and 159 High Street West, opposite Sans Street. I can send you a location map if you want. A garth was a courtyard surrounded by a cloister, and was also an archaic word for a yard or garden, from the old Norse garthr, and related to the Old English geard (Yard). There were also Assembly Garth, and Wethereld Garth. There were then the pre-war blocks of flats Wear Garth and Burleigh Garth, now demolished. Numbers Garth is long demolished. Numbers Garth was a rundown area in the nineteenth century, as was a lot of the previous prosperous property in the east end of Sunderland/Bishopwearmouth. In the Eighteenth century it would have been the homes of artisans and well-to-do folk. Stan

In a message dated 04/02/2008 12:35:26 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Would somebody please look up the following on the 1861/ 71 Census James Douglass born 1840 ish Scotland Isabella wife born Sunderland. ___________________________________________________ 1861 Census 8 Blandford Street Isabella Douglass 18 Wife James Douglass 21 Son-in-law, Glassman Ann Keall 46 Head Elizabeth Keall 16 Daughter Emma Keall 2 Daughter Esther Keall 12 Daughter Johnson Keall 9 Son Margaret Keall 6 Daughter Sarah Keall 14 Daughter John Thomas 25 Lodger Mary Thomas19 Wife Can't see them in 1871 Stan

In a message dated 03/02/2008 15:33:36 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I seem to have reached the end of the road in this line. Using IGI and Durham records on line There are far, far, more records available then are in the two limited sources you mention. First, you do not mention having looked at the original registers for the Bird entries you mention from Winlaton MIll or elsewhere. Indexes such as the IGI are only partial at best (and the IGI at worst can be actually misleading), and the full entries can give lots more valuable clues. Most of what is available on "Durham Records on-line" are parish registers and only a tiny porportion of those are included. Look at the Ryton and Whickham parish registers by all means (and at such records as MI lists and Marriage Bonds that may shed more light on register entries), and also at the Ryton Woodside (later Swalwell) Independent Church registers. Anyone living at Winlaton Mill at the time was probably an employee of the famous Crowley Iron Works, but just in case they were not, check out Land Tax Records, and, if they were indeed farmers or otherwise self-employed (or just to eliminate the possibility anyway) look at Probate Records (Wills, Admons, Probate Inventories, etc). It would be a shame not to look at the wealth of "Parish Chest Material" available for Ryton Parish, including Churchwardens' Accounts and Tithe Records. Among that there are records of Communion tokens being distributed at the pre-Crowley Winlaton Mill in the late 16th century (!), so by the 18th there could have been all sorts of other things!. Also, if the Birds had indeed recently arrived at Winlaton Mill you would have to consider where they might have come from. Winlaton Mill is so close to the Tyne, which was in effect the "Northumberland Border" of the day, that you do have to check out Northumberland sources as well as those of Co Durham. The big town of Newcastle ("the ruin of many" as Sir Ambrose Crowley called it) was only a keelboat's ride away. Who knows what else a trawl through the catalogues of Durham Record Office (on-line) or Northumberland Record Office (see A2A) might produce. In all of that you could also look at the on-line catalogue of Tyne and Wear Archives Department. You should also check out the general background history, as who knows what that would bring up. Try Bourne's "History of the Parish of Ryton" and his "History of the Parish of Whickham", as well as his "Annals of Whickham", all from the 1890s, and Winlaton LHS's "A History of Blaydon District" (1974: yours truly having had a hand in some of it). Most of those will now be library material rather than what you might buy for yourself (though the NDFHS has copies of Bourne's "..... Ryton" for sale). Far be it from me to muddy the waters, but I do know that when my grandmother was a young girl in Solihull, Warwickshire, in the late 19th century, the "big house" at the edge of what was then a village was occupied by Alfred Bird and family, he being the well-known Birmingham-based custard manufacturer. I mention that only to point out that there were Birds in the Midlands in general, and probably not, of course, only in Solihull. Sir Ambrose Crowley himself came from the other side of Birmingham (Stourbridge) to set up his works at Sunderland and then to move to Winlaton, Winlaton Mill and Swalwell c1690, and some, at least of his original workforce were brought in from that district, so I am not at all convinced that there were no Birds associated with his works until the 1740s. Go on - prove me wrong! Geoff Nicholson

Hi Derek, Did any of the males in the Bird family you found have a wife named Mary? Is it possible that Mary Bird was a widow when she married William Hunter? Just a thought. Mary O

I seem to have reached the end of the road in this line. Using IGI and Durham records on line I've got as far back as Samuel Hunter born 1745. His parents are William and Mary Hunter and there is a marriage in the parish records of a William Hunter and Mary Bird in 1744 at Ryton. So far so good. The problem is there is no record of a Mary Bird, although there is a Bird family listed at Winlaton Mill. Also there are 3 William Hunters fitting the time frame born 1718, 1720, and 1722. IGI gives William Hunter about 1719 of Swalwell and Mary Hunter about 1723 of Swalwell. Is there any other way I can try or is this indeed the end of the line? Help please Derek

I am looking for information on an artiste [ singer]whose stage name was Madame De Rose. Her real name is Hilda ? I was told she appeared at the Empire Theatre in Sunderland. I have'nt been able to confirm this. Apparently she was the step sister of my grandfather Thomas Stanley Fairless. he was the son of Thomas Fairless and Frances Ullithorne. I have been unable to find Frances on the 1891 census. Thomas is listed as being at the home of his parents at this time. The only Thomas Stanley I can find is living as an adopted son of Cuthbert and Eleanor Robson. At first I thought maybe Frances had died in childbirth in 1890 but the reg office have no death record for her in years 1890 - 1892. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Julia

In a message dated 29/01/2008 14:30:12 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Apparently she was the step sister of my grandfather Thomas Stanley Fairless. _______________________________________________________________________ A Thomas Fairless married an Eleanor Thompson in Sunderland in 1883, and Thomas Fairless married Frances Mary Ullithorne in March ¼ 1889 in Tynemouth. I wonder if Madame De Rose was a child of the first marriage? The birth of Thomas Stanley Fairless was registered in Sunderland March ¼ 1890. Stan

Just to say that the legal process of adoption was introduced in 1927, before which there was no formal adoption process, although the term adoption was often applied to what we call guardianship or fostering, which were primarily private arrangements. Stan

In a message dated 29/01/2008 14:30:12 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Thomas is listed as being at the home of his parents at this time. ___________________________________________________________________ Hi Julia, Which time is this? Have you found him in the 1901 Census? I can't see him. Stan

Hi Mark No connections with the names you have listed but does the name Daly come from Sunderland connections My Grandfather was born William Daly ( Deeley ) in Middlesborough wondered if there might be any connection -his parents were Margaret Lovett and Edward Deeley ( who subsequently disappeared from view ! ) Cheers Pat Phillips ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ryan-Daly" <[email protected]> To: "Sunderland" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: [ENG-DUR-SUNDERLAND] BARRACLOUGH, LISTER, ORD, THOMPSON > Hello - looking for anyone with links to the any of the following > families: > > > > BARRACLOUGH: John BARRACLOUGH, born c1790 in Co Durham. John married > Hannah > CHICKEN (b1795 Newcastle upon Tyne) in 1809. They had five children, all > born in Sunderland: Frances (1814), William John (1817), Hannah (1819), > John > (1821) and Thomas (1823-1908). William John BARRACLOUGH (1817) went onto > marry Bridget AILEY on 23/10/1842 in Sunderland. Their children are: > Hannah > (1845), Maria Ann (1846) and Ellen (c1849). > > > > LISTER: William, born c1700, married Margaret TURPIN (b1700) and had four > children: Ann (1725), Stephen (1728), Matthais (1730) and Isabel (1733). > Stephen LISTER (1728) went on to marry in 1755 to Ann ARCHBOLD (1735). > Their four children are: Isabel (1755), William (1757), Stephen (1767) and > Stephen (1770). > > > > ORD: John ORD, born c1775 married Ann Camsey (1771-1832) in 1797. Their > children are: Samuel (1799), John (1801), Edward (1806-1838), Hannah > (1808-1893), James (1811), Dorothy (1813) and Margaret (1815). John ORD > (1801) married in 1823 to Elizabeth WILSON (1804) and had two children > Sarah > Jane (1832) and Edward (1835). Edward ORD (1835) married Eliza Elizabeth > HENDERSON (1839) and had nine children: Elizabeth Sarah (1858-1905), Grace > Fay (1861-1898), John William (1866), James (1866), Henry (1866), Eliza > (1868), Mary (1871), Susanna (1873) and Edward (1876). > > > > THOMPSON: John THOMPSON (1813-1886) married in 1833 to Mary LAFFERTY > (1817-1880) and had eight children: Jane (1834), John (1836), Ann (1838), > Mary Isabella (1839-1856), Sarah Daniels (1846), Luke (1848-1849), Daniel > (1849), and James Sutherland (1859). John THOMPSON (1836) married Mary > Ann > SANDERSON in 1862. Their children are: Elizabeth Greenwood (1862), > Margaret > (c1865), John (1870), Daniel (c1872), and Mary (1875). > > > > Thanks, Mark > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Mark Re Margaret Ann Allan(Allen) on the off chance she may be from my line, have you her date of birth? Regards Allan 20/01/08 14:44pm

Hi Mark What a great set of families you are describing! My only possible connection is with your Elizabeth Wilson who married John Ord. I have an Isabella Wilson who was born c 1805 in Sunderland and who married William Davison 20 April 1830 in Sunderland. I know nothing more about Isabella - could she be connected to your Elizabeth? I have no idea how common a name WILSON was in Sunderland at that time - no doubt originally from Scotland. Good luck - I hope you get some really helpful replies Mary in Torquay Devon Searching Davison Ferguson in Sunderland and Bishopswearmouth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ryan-Daly" > Hello - looking for anyone with links to the any of the following families: > ORD: John ORD, born c1775 married Ann Camsey (1771-1832) in 1797. Their > children are: Samuel (1799), John (1801), Edward (1806-1838), Hannah > (1808-1893), James (1811), Dorothy (1813) and Margaret (1815). John ORD > (1801) married in 1823 to Elizabeth WILSON (1804) and had two children > Sarah > Jane (1832) and Edward (1835).

Hello - looking for anyone with links to the any of the following families: HAY: Alexander HAY born c1755, married Jane MAINE in 1781. Their only son Robert HAY (born 1781), married Mary BRODIE and had five children: Grace (1801), Joseph (1803), Mary (1806-1876), Margaret (1808), Richard (1811). HENDERSON: William HENDERSON (1799) married in 1821 to Grace HAY (1801). Their children: Mary (1822), Joseph (1823), Hannah (1824), Elizabeth (1831), Margaret (1833), Eliza Elizabeth (1839) and Grace (1844-1884). 1770). SANDERSON: Joseph SANDERSON (born c1777) married Ann SANDAL (born 1779) and had four children: Robert (1810), Margaret (1810), Thomas (1812-1878) and John (1816). Thomas SANDERSON (1812-1878) married in 1854 to Mary WAYMAN (1820-1889) and had two children Thomas (1855-1908) and John (1863). Thomas SANDERSON (1855-1908) married in 1875 to Elizabeth Sarah ORD (1858-1905), their children are: Eliza (1877), Thomas (c1878), Edward (1879), Ernest (1882-1926), Mary (1884-1920) and Elizabeth (1888). WAYMAN: David WAYMAN (c1789) married to Frances TAYLOR (1789-1866), their children are: John Taylor (1816), Mary (1820-1866), Emma (1822), Robert (1829-1911) and Alice (1834-1840). Thanks, Mark

Hello - looking for anyone with links to the any of the following families: BARRACLOUGH: John BARRACLOUGH, born c1790 in Co Durham. John married Hannah CHICKEN (b1795 Newcastle upon Tyne) in 1809. They had five children, all born in Sunderland: Frances (1814), William John (1817), Hannah (1819), John (1821) and Thomas (1823-1908). William John BARRACLOUGH (1817) went onto marry Bridget AILEY on 23/10/1842 in Sunderland. Their children are: Hannah (1845), Maria Ann (1846) and Ellen (c1849). LISTER: William, born c1700, married Margaret TURPIN (b1700) and had four children: Ann (1725), Stephen (1728), Matthais (1730) and Isabel (1733). Stephen LISTER (1728) went on to marry in 1755 to Ann ARCHBOLD (1735). Their four children are: Isabel (1755), William (1757), Stephen (1767) and Stephen (1770). ORD: John ORD, born c1775 married Ann Camsey (1771-1832) in 1797. Their children are: Samuel (1799), John (1801), Edward (1806-1838), Hannah (1808-1893), James (1811), Dorothy (1813) and Margaret (1815). John ORD (1801) married in 1823 to Elizabeth WILSON (1804) and had two children Sarah Jane (1832) and Edward (1835). Edward ORD (1835) married Eliza Elizabeth HENDERSON (1839) and had nine children: Elizabeth Sarah (1858-1905), Grace Fay (1861-1898), John William (1866), James (1866), Henry (1866), Eliza (1868), Mary (1871), Susanna (1873) and Edward (1876). THOMPSON: John THOMPSON (1813-1886) married in 1833 to Mary LAFFERTY (1817-1880) and had eight children: Jane (1834), John (1836), Ann (1838), Mary Isabella (1839-1856), Sarah Daniels (1846), Luke (1848-1849), Daniel (1849), and James Sutherland (1859). John THOMPSON (1836) married Mary Ann SANDERSON in 1862. Their children are: Elizabeth Greenwood (1862), Margaret (c1865), John (1870), Daniel (c1872), and Mary (1875). Thanks, Mark