I don't recall where I read the tip about using Google Books to search for ancestral clues, but if it was on this mailing list - many, many thanks to the poster.  For those of you who have not tried the Google Book search, I encourage you to do so.  The results for me have cleared up a long-time mystery regarding my 2nd greatgrandfather, John Fletcher GREENIP (born Crosthwaite 1814). I knew that John F. Greenip had married Maria ELGAR (born Cheriton, Kent) in 1845 in West Tarring, Sussex.   What puzzled me was why and/or how the son of a schoolmaster at Appleby and later the first headmaster of Keswick High School (3nd greatgrandfather, John GREENIP sometimes GREENOP) moved to Sussex and worked as a servant.  In later years he was a solicitor's clerk in London - an occupation which I felt was more suited to what I would have expected his education to have been.    The Google Book search solved part of my mystery.  John Fletcher Greenip was mentioned in a book written by a vicar, John Wood WARTER.  He referred to JFG as his faithful servant.  The extract I read went on to describe how JFG would fall back into the broadest of Cumberland accents when he talked about 'home' i.e., the lakes, villages and fells.  He went on to write that only his wife (vicar's wife) could understand him when he lapsed into the dialect of his childhood and growing years.  Armed with that piece of information, I googled the vicar's name and found that he was married to Edith SOUTHEY, the eldest daughter of the poet laureate, Robert SOUTHEY.  A few more clicks and googles and it all came together.  Robert Southey and other Southey family members are buried in Crosthwaite, the long time village of my GREENIP ancestors.  The poet laureate lived at Greta Hall, as did Wordsworth at some time, I believe.  While I cannot prove it at the moment, I would like to think that my Greenips knew the Southey family and that is how and why my 2nd greatgrandfather ended up serving them in West Tarring, Sussex.  Sorry for the long e-mail, but I just wanted to share the information and encourage you all to try Google Book search.  I've also found important information on it regarding some of my Huguenot ancestors...but that's not a story for this mailing list. Regards and good hunting, Jan Isobel

Hi Russell, thanks for your reply... The answer to your request for more information as follows. 1...I have not seen the attestation papers, I received the information second hand 2...Emily's parents were... James Robinson born 1 Jun 1823 Lane House, Ulverston, died 17 Apr 1888 Cockermouth Mary Fleming born11 Jul 1816 Rydal, Loughrigg, Westmorland, . They married on 30 Apr 1850 in the Parish of Grasmere, Rydal. Children of these were Charles, Emily, Flemming, Richard. I don't know if Charles had any brothers or sisters. Do you know where I can see records for the Scotland side of the Cheviot Hills? I know it's not much to go on, I appreciate any help/ideas I can get...Regards...Shaun

Thank you Isabel, that was a nice memory lane. njp ----- Original Message ----- From: "isabel adams" <isabel.adams@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] A Barnes > hello > The diary of A Barnes is nicely written in dip pen. > I would say he is late teens,, early 20s , probably early 20s because he > has > the odd drink, and he writes about going to work, and to the Palace > [Theatre,?] and many bicycle rides of some length, so he was fit > He made a note of a race horse at 400-1 Fra Diavolo [Cam] and Prince W > [Ceasarewich] > Names of ladies -Molly Forsyth 71 Ashby St > Miss Nellie Hall c/o Dr Livingstone Corney House Penrith > Miss Mary Westmorland Duke St Penrith > Miss Dora Eddy c/o Mr Glasson PenrithMr Geo Middlewiss 40 Hunter St > Wallsend > Miss J Nixon 57a Scotch St Carlisle > Miss Lizzie Holt 26 Brunswick Rd Penrith > I am sure he was a real gent, and a hard working, steady lad > best wishes from > Isabel Adams > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "NJP" <njp@sbcglobal.net> > To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:56 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] A Barnes > > >> Isabell, tell us more about what is in the diary, you can change the >> names >> to protect of course. njp >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "isabel adams" <isabel.adams@ntlworld.com> >> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 5:10 AM >> Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] A Barnes >> >> >>> Hi If anyone is interestedin A Barnes 84 aglionby St Carlisle I have his >>> 1907 diary which cost him 1/- and also contains the names and addresses >>> of >>> some lady >>> acquaintances >>> I got it at a car boot for 25p and it is priceless to someone who I am >>> very >>> happy to give it to ,free >>> best wishes from >>> Isabel Adams >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

hello The diary of A Barnes is nicely written in dip pen. I would say he is late teens,, early 20s , probably early 20s because he has the odd drink, and he writes about going to work, and to the Palace [Theatre,?] and many bicycle rides of some length, so he was fit He made a note of a race horse at 400-1 Fra Diavolo [Cam] and Prince W [Ceasarewich] Names of ladies -Molly Forsyth 71 Ashby St Miss Nellie Hall c/o Dr Livingstone Corney House Penrith Miss Mary Westmorland Duke St Penrith Miss Dora Eddy c/o Mr Glasson PenrithMr Geo Middlewiss 40 Hunter St Wallsend Miss J Nixon 57a Scotch St Carlisle Miss Lizzie Holt 26 Brunswick Rd Penrith I am sure he was a real gent, and a hard working, steady lad best wishes from Isabel Adams ----- Original Message ----- From: "NJP" <njp@sbcglobal.net> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] A Barnes > Isabell, tell us more about what is in the diary, you can change the names > to protect of course. njp > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "isabel adams" <isabel.adams@ntlworld.com> > To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 5:10 AM > Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] A Barnes > > >> Hi If anyone is interestedin A Barnes 84 aglionby St Carlisle I have his >> 1907 diary which cost him 1/- and also contains the names and addresses >> of >> some lady >> acquaintances >> I got it at a car boot for 25p and it is priceless to someone who I am >> very >> happy to give it to ,free >> best wishes from >> Isabel Adams >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi If anyone is interestedin A Barnes 84 aglionby St Carlisle I have his 1907 diary which cost him 1/- and also contains the names and addresses of some lady acquaintances I got it at a car boot for 25p and it is priceless to someone who I am very happy to give it to ,free best wishes from Isabel Adams

Isabell, tell us more about what is in the diary, you can change the names to protect of course. njp ----- Original Message ----- From: "isabel adams" <isabel.adams@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 5:10 AM Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] A Barnes > Hi If anyone is interestedin A Barnes 84 aglionby St Carlisle I have his > 1907 diary which cost him 1/- and also contains the names and addresses of > some lady > acquaintances > I got it at a car boot for 25p and it is priceless to someone who I am > very > happy to give it to ,free > best wishes from > Isabel Adams > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi folks, I am trying to find birth details of Charles Hunt (maybe the name Henry is also used). >From his attestation papers, if the information he gave was true, he would have been born on the 18 July 1833 and his parents would have been John and Ann. Family story has be being born in the "Cheviot Hills", there is also a belief that he had connections in the Grasmere area. He married Emily Robinson born 9 Sept 1851 in Grasmere. ( they married in Canada) Charles worked in Canada as a Miner. Anyone any ideas as to how I may make progress with finding his birth or anything about his parents. Hope you can help...Regards...Shaun

Hi folks, I know that Jame ROBINSON was buried in Bridekirk churchyard on 20th April 1888. I have a couple of queries you may be able to help me with.....Does anyone know... 1...Is this church and churchyard still in use? 2...Are there any records anywhere that would tell me if his grave has a headstone? 3...If there is a gravestone, is there anyway I could get a copy of the inscription on it, or better still a photograph of it? Hoping you can help...Regards...Shaun

I'm working on getting my family tree straightened out, and properly documented, so if anyone wishe's to offer to help, i would be most grateful, as alot of the information i have is incorrect, or is missing.

Looking for a connection between the Barnes Family & Peascod Family in early 1830s ++. Hodgen Barnes was born in Nov 1823 to William & Mary Barnes. He moved to the US in @ 1837 after the death of his father at an early age. His mother remarried to a Joseph Peascod who later changed his name to Prescot. In @ 1868 someone connected with the Barnes family died in the UK and an inheritance was given to Hodgen Barnes & to 2 of the Peascod brothers, Joseph & John, aka Prescot-tt. It could have been Mrs Barnes Peascod Prescot' mother or father who died. Her maiden name was Steele, father was William Steele. Is there any on-line search engines for wills from England in this time period? njp

I think you'll find that English wills from 1858 to 1943 are now accessible at the Family Records Centre in Myddleton Street, London and at The National Archives at Kew. The TNS website is helpful - www.nationalarchives.gov.uk - click on WILLS under Family History on the home page. The FRC is due to move to TNS at Kew later this year or next - I forget which. Across the Border in Scotland, wills can mostly be downloaded for a flat rate of £5.00 from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (you can search the index free of charge). What you get is a digitised set of frames from actual manuscript volumes. Deciphering clerical handwriting brings hours of innocent entertainment intermingled with total frustration - until the breakthrough comes! I hope this helps. Good hunting! Peter Peter B Freshwater MA MCLIP FSAScot Edinburgh, Scotland peter@hillfoot.demon.co.uk Researching BRUCE, FOLWELL, FOX, FRESHWATER, PERKINS, SWINGLER (Beds, Leics, Northants) HAUGHAN, JOHNSTONE, RICHARDSON (Cumberland, Durham) DOW, FINDLAY, GRAY, JACK(SON), KENNEDY (Angus, Glasgow, Perth) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Lengkeek" <artandhanna@shaw.ca> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:54 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Wills in Cumbria 1868-69 > >From the booklet Cumbrian Ancestors published by Cumbria Archive Service, > 1998:"Indexes and copies of all wills proved in England and Wales since 1858 > may be found at the Principal Probate Registry, now known as the Principal > Registry of the Family Division at Somerset House, Strand, London WC2R 1LP > (telephone )171 936 6960). However Somerset House will only deal with > enquiries made in person. Postal enquiries and requests for photocopies > should be directed to York Probate Registry, Duncombe Place, York, YO1 2EA" > I hope this helps and good luck to you both, Art in Canada >

Looking for a connection between the Barnes Family & Peascod Family in early 1830s ++. Hodgen Barnes was born in Nov 1823 to William & Mary Barnes. He moved to the US in @ 1837 after the death of his father at an early age. His mother remarried to a Joseph Peascod. In 1868 (@) someone with the Barnes name died in the UK and an inheritance was given to Hodgen Barnes & some of the Peascod brothers. njp

My grandmother, Annie Mary Elizabeth Donovan, (father, James, a farmer) was born in High Ireby in 1862, but I cannot locate her family. Hope this article may be of help to you. Rene/USA Hi Rene, Looking through old messages, could this be your family?: 1871 census Wigton, Cumberland. RG10/5227, Page 22, Schedule 113 Coupland. James Donovan, H, M, 59, Labourer, Ireland. Margaret " , W, M, 53, Ireland. Thomas , S, UM, 18, Labourer, Yorkshire, Sheffield. John , S, UM, 15, Durham, Hartlepool. Catherine , D, UM, 12, Durham, Hartlepool. Hannah , D, UM, 8, Cumberland, Ireby. Plus 4 lodgers. Regards, Tom. P.S. Also using this as a test as I haven't seen anything from the Cumbria list for some time. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have often wished to find a will from my ancestor that was left during the same period that you mention. I have asked this same question from time-to-time on Lancashire and Ulverston lists and have yet to receive any clues of how to search for this will that I KNOW exists. I will be watching to see if you get an answer that will also be helpful to me. .Charlotte ----- Original Message ----- From: NJP To: Eng-Cumbria Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:22 PM Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Wills in Cumbria 1868-69 How would one go about finding the principals in a will from 1868-69. I know the names of the people who received the inheritance but I would like to get a copy of it. NJP

Thank you, Tom, for this information. I have wondered also whether that could be my grandmother (it is the only birth close in age (from her marriage and death certificates, she always said she was five years younger...but that wouldn't be unusual....and Hannah and Ann, I notice are often interchangeable. Did the record you found give the name of the four lodgers? I have not seen that and wonder if it could help me. Thank you so much for sending the information. Are you researching Donovan's from that area? Rene, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom mercer" <tjmercer@talktalk.net> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Prior Hall, Ireby > > > > My grandmother, Annie Mary Elizabeth Donovan, (father, James, a > farmer) was born in High Ireby in 1862, but I cannot locate her family. > > Hope this article may be of help to you. > Rene/USA > > > Hi Rene, > Looking through old messages, could this be your family?: > > 1871 census Wigton, Cumberland. RG10/5227, Page 22, Schedule 113 > Coupland. > > James Donovan, H, M, 59, Labourer, Ireland. > Margaret " , W, M, 53, Ireland. > Thomas , S, UM, 18, Labourer, Yorkshire, Sheffield. > John , S, UM, 15, Durham, Hartlepool. > Catherine , D, UM, 12, Durham, Hartlepool. > Hannah , D, UM, 8, Cumberland, Ireby. > Plus 4 lodgers. > > Regards, Tom. > > P.S. Also using this as a test as I haven't seen anything from the > Cumbria list for some time. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From the booklet Cumbrian Ancestors published by Cumbria Archive Service, 1998:"Indexes and copies of all wills proved in England and Wales since 1858 may be found at the Principal Probate Registry, now known as the Principal Registry of the Family Division at Somerset House, Strand, London WC2R 1LP (telephone )171 936 6960). However Somerset House will only deal with enquiries made in person. Postal enquiries and requests for photocopies should be directed to York Probate Registry, Duncombe Place, York, YO1 2EA" I hope this helps and good luck to you both, Art in Canada -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Morrison Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:41 PM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Wills in Cumbria 1868-69 I have often wished to find a will from my ancestor that was left during the same period that you mention. I have asked this same question from time-to-time on Lancashire and Ulverston lists and have yet to receive any clues of how to search for this will that I KNOW exists. I will be watching to see if you get an answer that will also be helpful to me. .Charlotte ----- Original Message ----- From: NJP To: Eng-Cumbria Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:22 PM Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Wills in Cumbria 1868-69 How would one go about finding the principals in a will from 1868-69. I know the names of the people who received the inheritance but I would like to get a copy of it. NJP ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How would one go about finding the principals in a will from 1868-69. I know the names of the people who received the inheritance but I would like to get a copy of it. NJP

Hello, Petra, Many thanks for going to so much trouble for me. I really appreciate your efforts. I have since realised that David Tuton was born in Whitehaven(1861 Census) so you are probably correct in your theory in that David Tuton the elder was the father of my David.It could possibly explain the "Scottish" connection if it ever existed. When I get chance I am going to contact the John Rylands Library in Manchester. They hold a lot of information about Primitive Methodist Ministers, etc. I do have most of the information you have discovered but don't let that detract from my gratitude. When I find more I will let you know. Best wishes, Bob Hartley.

Hi Bob, David TUTONs are very thin on the ground in the whole country! I found two in Whitehaven in 1841 who are not yours but may be connected somehow: HO107, Piece 177, Book 4, f.9, p.12 Parish or Township of Whitehaven Address: Banks Lane David TUTON, age 62, Rope Maker, born Scotland Peggy TUTON, age 62, Not born in CUL Margaret TUTON, age 29, born CUL HO107, Piece 177, Book 2, f.16, p.26 Borough of Whitehaven, Township of Whitehaven Address: Queen Street John TUTON, age 35, Rope m., born CUL Mary TUTON, age 35, born CUL David TUTON, age 15, born CUL Isabella TUTON, age 13, born CUL My theory would be that 62-year-old David TUTON is your David's father, as well as the father of 29-year-old Margaret and 35-year-old John TUTON. If that theory is correct, then it is likely that your David is also born in Cumberland because his two older siblings were, and the family is still living there in 1841. Also note that old David TUTON was born in Scotland, so maybe that's where the story of the Scottish connection comes from... The IGI has the following: Marriage 13 Dec 1802 St. James, Whitehaven: David TUTON & Margaret SCOTT Baptism 06 Aug 1826 St. James, Whitehaven: David, son of John & Mary TUTTON I found the following children of David and Margaret TUTON: Bap. 25 Mar 1804 St. James, Whitehaven: John, son of David & Margt. TUTON (born 25 Feb 1804) Bap. 01 Nov 1809 St. Bees: Betty, daur. of David & Margaret TUTTON (born 29 Oct 1809) Bap. 05 Jan 1812 Moresby: Margaret, daur. of Divid & Margaret TUTON (born 06 Dec 1811) However, no sign of your David's baptism! I could not find your David TUTON at all in 1841 or 1851, nor his wife in 1851. I made sure to look on the Isle of Man as well as all I could find about his Primitive Methodist Preacher career was from Douglas on the Isle of Man. Could he have gone abroad for some time? Or more likely, to sea? But if he was at sea, why then can I not find Lettice in 1851, nor their daughter Mary Jane? I found the family in 1861 and 1871, and widowed David staying with his married daughter Mary Jane HALL in 1881 and 1891 - have you got all those? Interestingly in 1891, they were on the Isle of Man. In all those censuses it only said David was a Primitive Methodist Minister, it never said anything about him being a ship's captain. So if he did go to sea, maybe that was in his younger years only? Hoe this helps a bit... Petra ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:31:59 -0000 > From: "Robert Hartley" <robert.hartley90@ntlworld.com> > Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Brocklebanks of Whitehaven. > > Hello everyone. > > I am researching the life of my 2*greatgrandfather, DAVID TUTON. Family legend > says that he was a ship's captain working for Brocklebanks of Whitehaven. I > know he was born in 1814 and in 1838 became a minister for the Primitive > Methodists staying in that capacity until his death in 1892. He married > LETTICE TATE in 1842 in West Derby(near Liverpool). She was born in > Whitehaven. > > Can someone help me to find any information which would prove or disprove the > claim that he was a ship's captain. > Many thanks in anticipation of a good result. > > Bob Hartley.

Your welcome But where is he on the 1841 and 51? let me know when you find him. regards Patricia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hartley" <robert.hartley90@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Brocklebanks of Whitehaven2. > Hello, Patricia, > Thank you for taking so much trouble for me. Why didn't I think to look at > the 1861 Census! I was going off a little note made on a family tree > researched some years ago which recently came into my possession. > > Again, many thanks. > Best wishes, > Bob Hartley. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Clews" <patricia_tree@tiscali.co.uk> > To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 11:25 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Brocklebanks of Whitehaven2. > > >> On the 1861 census it does say that David was born in Whitehaven, he is >> in >> Runcorn I can not find him on the 1851 or 1841 so far. I don't have any >> access to the Scottish Censuses at this time >> >> regards >> Patricia >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Hartley" <robert.hartley90@ntlworld.com> >> To: <ENG-CUMBRIA@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Brocklebanks of Whitehaven2. >> >> >>> Hello, Patricia, >>> Many thanks for your latest offer. I do subscribe to Ancestry myself but >>> I >>> have no access to Scottish Censuses. I am led to believe that David >>> Tuton >>> originated in Fife, Scotland but I have seen no real evidence to support >>> this, only hearsay. I would be grateful if you could look for any >>> Scottish >>> link if you have the necessary access. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Bob Hartley. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.13/726 - Release Date: >>> 18/03/2007 15:34 >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.15/728 - Release Date: > 20/03/2007 08:07 >