The Lifeboat is a pub in Maryport, still exists today Barbara Maryport ----- Original Message ---- From: Jane Houghton <jane@janehoughton.co.uk> To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com; jancoleman57@talktalk.net Sent: Monday, 7 July, 2008 4:18:36 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] FULTON/MARYPORT Name of the house? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Coleman" <jancoleman57@talktalk.net> To: <ENG-CUMBRIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] FULTON/MARYPORT > Please can anyone help me with the following entry from the 1881 census:- > > John Fulton c1847, born Carlisle, Shipbrokers Clerk, lived "Life Boat, 9 > Senhouse Street, Maryport." > > I don't understand the "Life Boat" part - any information about John or > his circumstances would be received with many thanks. > > Jan Coleman > Kinver, West Midlands > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________________ Not happy with your email address?. Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html

Please can anyone help me with the following entry from the 1881 census:- John Fulton c1847, born Carlisle, Shipbrokers Clerk, lived "Life Boat, 9 Senhouse Street, Maryport." I don't understand the "Life Boat" part - any information about John or his circumstances would be received with many thanks. Jan Coleman Kinver, West Midlands

Hello list, I wonder if someone could point me in the right direction. I am helping a friend research his family. In 1901 Gladys Dixon aged 1 b 1900 Kirby in Furness is listed in Keswick with her mother Elizabeth b 1855 Keswick and 2 siblings Sarah b 1892 Keswick and Elizabeth b 1893 in Keswick. There is no sign of a father (who may be called Robert) although Elizabeth senior is listed as married but head. Elizabeth Dixon senior does not appear to be listed in the 1891 census so may not have been married by then.Is there any online resource, other than applying for a birth certificate, I can access that might help me find Elizabeth's marriage to identify her husband and find out her maiden name? (there may be an italian link somewhere)

Hello to all, this is my first time on your list. I have a Percy (Percival) CROSSLEY b 1876 and a cousin Herbert CROSSLEY b ? both mentioned as yacht designers in the net site of the Royal Windermere Yacht Club, I believe Percy lived in the Southampton area. I am searching for anything after the 1901 cenus on these two, family ? children ?, Paercy's wife Annie Winifred d. 1958, and hopefully parents of Herbert, the only info I have does not match as the one I have died bef 1891. Regards Toni

Is it possible that anyone on the list has a copy of the TV show "Songs of Praise" episode that was in Wreay Church? It was shown on TV in Queensland last Sunday but the family member who watched it did not think to tape it or ring anyone else to tell them it was on - he has been cut off everyone's Birthday and Christmas list for his sins. Fingers crossed Marie McCulloch Australia

Hi Peter, thanks for this will certainly check it out. Kind regards Gill -----Original Message----- From: Peter Freshwater <peter@hillfoot.demon.co.uk> To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 7:02 Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] SARAH ANNA BELLA JOHNSTONE Hello Gill Have you looked at the Free BMD database at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/? There are plenty of Sarah JOHNSTONs born in Cumberland between 1870 and 1875; none listed at present with the exact forenames that you are seeking, but full names did not always appear on birth records. These records give you the exact references with which you can order certificates, and do not, unfortunately record parents' names. One of my GG Grandmothers was a Margaret JOHNSTONE (1821-1907) who married a William HAUGHAN of Pattenside in 1839 and moved with him to Consett, Co Durham in about 1870. I am still working on this branch of my mother's family, and cannot see any direct connection with your family, but we can explore further if you like. Best wishes Peter Peter B Freshwater MA MCLIP FSAScot Edinburgh, Scotland peter@hillfoot.demon.co.uk Researching BRUCE, FOLWELL, FOX, FRESHWATER, PERKINS, SWINGLER (Beds, Leics, Northants) HAUGHAN, JOHNSTONE, RICHARDSON (Annandale, Cumberland, Durham) DOW, FINDLAY, GRAY, JACK(SON), KENNEDY (Angus, Glasgow, Perth) ----- Original Message ----- From: <GILLIAN52@aol.com> To: <ENG-CUMBRIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] SARAH ANNA BELLA JOHNSTONE > Can anyone help me please I am looking for a Sarah Anna Bella Johnston b > around 1872ish father was William I know in 1893 she was in St John's the Vale > and maybe the Kings Arms. > > Kind regards > Gill ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL's new homepage has launched. Take a tour at http://info.aol.co.uk/homepage/ now.

Hello Gill Have you looked at the Free BMD database at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/? There are plenty of Sarah JOHNSTONs born in Cumberland between 1870 and 1875; none listed at present with the exact forenames that you are seeking, but full names did not always appear on birth records. These records give you the exact references with which you can order certificates, and do not, unfortunately record parents' names. One of my GG Grandmothers was a Margaret JOHNSTONE (1821-1907) who married a William HAUGHAN of Pattenside in 1839 and moved with him to Consett, Co Durham in about 1870. I am still working on this branch of my mother's family, and cannot see any direct connection with your family, but we can explore further if you like. Best wishes Peter Peter B Freshwater MA MCLIP FSAScot Edinburgh, Scotland peter@hillfoot.demon.co.uk Researching BRUCE, FOLWELL, FOX, FRESHWATER, PERKINS, SWINGLER (Beds, Leics, Northants) HAUGHAN, JOHNSTONE, RICHARDSON (Annandale, Cumberland, Durham) DOW, FINDLAY, GRAY, JACK(SON), KENNEDY (Angus, Glasgow, Perth) ----- Original Message ----- From: <GILLIAN52@aol.com> To: <ENG-CUMBRIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] SARAH ANNA BELLA JOHNSTONE > Can anyone help me please I am looking for a Sarah Anna Bella Johnston b > around 1872ish father was William I know in 1893 she was in St John's the Vale > and maybe the Kings Arms. > > Kind regards > Gill

Can anyone help me please I am looking for a Sarah Anna Bella Johnston b around 1872ish father was William I know in 1893 she was in St John's the Vale and maybe the Kings Arms. Kind regards Gill

Thank you Dorothy for giving me an idea of when I J Priest was in business. Magdalen > I have a baby picture of my father taken in 1895 at the Priest studio. > Not much but at least some time frame. > > Dorothy > >

Hello I have a photograph taken by what looks like I. J. PRIEST, 22 Paxton Rerrace, Barrow-in-Furness. Could anyone tell me please when this photographer was in business? Thank you very much. Magdalen in South Africa

Hello, I have a baby picture of my father taken in 1895 at the Priest studio. Not much but at least some time frame. Dorothy

Hi Sue Thankyou for answering my E.mail. The photo was of my Dad as a young man taken with his siblings which you very kindly said you could scan for me , I would really appreciate it. I did reply to your original e.mail which I was really pleased to have & learn your husband was a family member etc but then being a bit old in the tooth to play with computers wondered if perhaps I had done something wrong and the letter did'nt reach you for some reason Anyway look forward to hearing from you when you have the time Kind regards Edna

Sorry Edna but I cannot remember the offer of a photo to send you please can you remind me. Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edna Leopold" <ednal@absamail.co.za> To: <ENG-CUMBRIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:52 AM Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Lyall family photo > Hi Sue > I keep logging on in anticipation of the photograph which you > offered to send me and don't want to pressure you at all but can't help > but wonder if there is a problem somewhere as I was expecting another > letter from Cumbria some time ago now which also has not come which is a > bit strange .Hope all is well > Regards > Edna > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.9/1417 - Release Date: > 06/05/2008 08:07 > >

Hi Sue I keep logging on in anticipation of the photograph which you offered to send me and don't want to pressure you at all but can't help but wonder if there is a problem somewhere as I was expecting another letter from Cumbria some time ago now which also has not come which is a bit strange .Hope all is well Regards Edna

Wow, Rene, I just love complex families!! I had a bit of a look into the background of Ann STOGDALE/HARDISTY/REAY - what a woman!! (Or should I say - breeding machine??) Not only did she have the two marriages, but she also had children before the first and between the two marriages! First of all, I found the birth of Florence by searching in Penrith District 1871-1873 by first name only. She was registered as HARDESTY: Birth Dec 1871 HARDESTY, Florence Penrith 10b 402 As she was born about a year before Ann HARDISTY nee STOGDALE's marriage to William REAY, but well after William HARDISTY's death, you can't even be sure who her father is - unless he is named on the birth certificate. Florence could of course have been a premarital child to William REAY. Which would explain why she used the REAY surname. As her mother's surname was HARDISTY at the time Florence was born, it is quite correct that her birth was registered under that surname. Maybe the priest/registrar at her marriage insisted that she used the name she had at birth. Maybe she was not a REAY at all but usually just used her stepfather's surname, as many illegitimate children did. Initially I could not find William HARDISTY's death, calculating that he must have died between Charles Henry's conception and the 1871 census. No luck anywhere in the country. And then I thought - if Ann had one child between her marriages, why not another one? And I checked the deaths between the 1861 and 1871 censuses and found: Death Dec 1867 HARDESTY, William 29 Penrith 10b 262 So Charles Henry was another illegitimate one, and it is anybody's guess who the father was! Now to the premarital children: On the 1861 census there is a 5-year-old son called Isaac HARDISTY born in Temple Sowerby. As William HARDISTY and Ann STOGDALE did not get married until June Quarter 1859, he must have been either Ann's illegitimate son, or William HARDISTY's son from a previous relationship/marriage. Searching births in East Ward District (which contains Temple Sowerby) 1854-1857 for the first name Isaac brought up this birth: Birth Mar 1856 STOCKDALE, Isaac E Ward 10b 522 Then there was Elizabeth born about 1857/58, who was called HARDISTY in 1861 but STOGDALE in 1871. She clearly must have been an illegitimate child of Ann's. FreeBMD did not come up with any Elizabeth with a suitable surname in East Ward at the right time. However there was a baptism on the IGI: Bap. 31 Aug 1857 Temple Sowerby: Elizabeth, daur. of Thomas HUTCHINSON & Ann STOCKDALE. So I checked the original birth index images for September Quarter 1857 and found: Birth Sep 1857 STOCKDALE, Betsy East Ward 10b 485 And indeed, it was on FreeBMD as well. Interestingly, the IGI also threw up this baptism: Bap. 07 May 1859 Temple Sowerby: Elizabeth, daur. of William HUTCHINSON & Ann STOCKDALE What?? Another baptism of the same child? But the father's first name has changed! And also, it is just around the time when Ann's daughter Esther was born - she was aged 1 in the 1861 census, so could have been born between April 1859 and around April 1860. There wasn't a baptism for an Esther STOCKDALE or HARDISTY around the right time, nor a birth registration! The only girls called Esther registered in East Ward District between 1858 and 1860 were called DALTON (Mar 1858), BIRTLE (Sep 1858) and HARRISON (Dec 1860), so neither surnames nor timing fit. What if Esther started life as Elizabeth? That would fit the baptism. Searching FreeBMD for the birth of an Elizabeth in East Ward District in March or June Quarter 1859 did not bring up anything useful, in fact I even brought up ALL births in East Ward in those two quarters without success. Very strange. I still think the baptism of the second Elizabeth in 1859 refers to Esther, but why her birth does not appear to have been registered I do not understand. Incidentally, that baptism took place in the same quarter as Ann's marriage to William HARDISTY. So it seems Elizabeth did use the surname STOGDALE, and Esther was also "entitled" to it, although she doesn't appear to have used it. Baby James STOGDALE could have belonged to either of them. However, it seems Esther HARDISTY married in June Quarter 1882, and Elizabeth STOCKDALE married John ALLINSON also in June Quarter 1882 (I found the couple with children in Penrith in 1891), so they would not have had an illegitimate baby called STOGDALE in 1901. Incidentally, the 1861 census page for Temple Sowerby with the HARDISTY family is incredible! Two households before the HARDISTYs are Isaac and Mary STOGDALE, Ann's parents. In the next household after the HARDISTYs is a widowed 72-year-old Margaret HARDISTY, who could be William's mother or more likely grandmother. Four households further down is William STOGDALE, Ann's brother, with wife and daughter. And I haven't checked the adjacent pages, there may be more there! Of the other illegitimate children, Charles Henry appears to have stuck to the surname HARDISTY. He lived in Penrith in 1901 with wife Ellen and three children aged 7, 5 and 2. Isaac born in 1855/56 called himself HARDISTY in 1861 (when he was with his stepfather William HARDISTY and mother Ann in Temple Sowerby), in 1871 (when he was a Farm Servant in Edenhall, CUL) and 1881 (when he was unmarried and a Joiner in Barton, WES). But in 1891 and 1901 he reverted to the surname STOCKDALE. This may have had something to do with him getting married - he was a Joiner lodging in Patterdale in 1891 and said to be married, but not with his family. In 1901, he was at 3 Friar Street in Penrith, a widower, Joiner and Carpenter, with numerous children, all born in Penrith: Albert (16), Emily (14), Tom (11), William (9), Mary A. (4) and Maud (2). Marriage Dec 1882 Penrith 10b 604 Isaac STOGDALE matches Sarah Ann/Sarah Annie FAIRER, Annie JOHNSTON and James NICHOLSON The 1891 census has at 23 West Lane in Penrith: Annie STOCKDALE (married, age 30, born Penrith) with children Elizabeth (8), Albert (6), Emily (4) and Tom (1). So it is likely that her maiden name was JOHNSTON. And then to clinch it all, there is: Death Mar 1901 STOCKDALE, Annie 39 Penrith 10b 315 So she died giving birth to baby James - her widower Isaac could look after the older children but obviously could not cope with a newborn baby, so he asked his younger halfsister Florence to look after baby James. As I said in my last email, James STOCKDALE's birth was also registered in Penrith District in March Quarter 1901. So there you are - mystery solved! Little James was Charles GRISDALE's half-nephew-in-law, if you want to be pedantic - but nephew pretty much fits the bill! Petra (very pleased with herself) ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:34:30 -0400 > From: "Rene Smith" <terryrene@bellsouth.net> > Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] STOGDALE/REAY/HARDISTY > > Hi Petra, thank you for spending so much time looking for me. I have felt it all quite "strange" also. Another friend of mine who has been helping me just sent me an e mail a couple of hours before yours and it seems to answer a few questions and another "path" to maybe search. I will try to make it consise below..... > > William HARDISTY married 1859 Ann STOGDALE b. 1835 in Temple Sowerby. Then Ann must have been widowed and she married William REAY in 1872. The REAY and HARDISTY family is on the 1881 census with William REAY head of the household and living at 25 Burrowgate, Penrith....pc. 5141/7 pg 7. Then in 1901, Charles Grisdale and Forence lived at this address with James STOGDALE, the baby. (The Grisdale family all lived in the areas of Burrowgate, Middlegate, etc., in Penrith, so this would link in) > > YES, to answer your question, Petra, Florence does have a sister named Margaret REAY on the 1881 census aged 5 years, but she is a younger sister. > > I am now wondering whether the Margaret Reay you found who married a James STOCKDALE in 1874 could have been the sister of William Reay, the stepfather of Florence Reay/Hardisty? and the transcribers have gone between STOCKDALE/ > STOGDALE/ and SLOGDALE......have I totally confused you now, Petra. > > Florence uses her name REAY in the 1881 census, but when she married Charles Jefferson Grisdale, she used the name Florence HARDISTY. On the 1891 census James Stogdale is listed as a nephew of Charles J. Grisdale head of the household and that appears to be through his mother in law's maiden name STOGDALE. > > We still cannot find a birth for James STOGDALE (guess the "t" was written as an "L". I can understand where the name STOGDALE came in now, with that being the maiden name of Florence's mother, but still do not understand who the > parents could be of James STOGDALE b. 1901 in Penrith and aged one month on the 1901 census. > > On top of all that, I can never find a birth certificate for FLORENCE REAY or HARDISTY b. 1872 according to the census in 1881 and 1891 (when she was Florence Grisdale). > > If you have any ideas, Petra, I will welcome them with open arms. Thank you again for trying to help me with this mystery. I do hope you are feeling much better. > Rene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Petra Mitchinson" <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk> > To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Surname SLOGDALE > >> Hi Rene, >> >> Now this is all rather strange. >> >> I cannot find this census entry on Ancestry. Have they not filmed/transcribed that page??? Can you tell us the Piece, folio and page number to check? >> >> I then tried to find ANY event for the surname of SLOGDALE on FreeBMD between 1870 and 1911 - and there wasn't a SINGLE one, in particular not the birth of James in March or June Quarter 1901! >> >> I suspect SLOGDALE is either a transcription error, or was badly misspelt by the enumerator in the first place. >> >> I then looked for all births with the first name James in Penrith Registration District in March and June Quarter 1901. There were 6 in March, and none in June (which in itself is rather strange). >> >> Amongst those in March Quarter, there was: >> >> Birth March 1901 STOCKDALE, James Penrith 10b 520 >> >> That seems like quite a likely error - someone left out the cross bar on the t, and wrote g for ck. >> >> I then looked for female GRISDALE marriages between 1881 and 1905 in Penrith District - none of them matched a STOCKDALE, SLOGDALE or anything remotely like it. Neither was there a GRISDALE or a GRISEDALE marriage matching a STOCKDALE between 1871 and 1905 countrywide. Neither was there a STOCKDALE/HARDISTY marriage in that timespan. >> >> There was one marriage of a male STOCKDALE matching a female REAY (but there are two couples on the page): >> >> Marriage Dec 1874 Carlisle 10b 880 >> Robert STOCKDALE matches Margaret REAY >> >> Did Florence have an older sister called Margaret? >> >> It eez a mystery!! >> >> Petra >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:36:41 -0400 >>> From: "Rene Smith" <terryrene@bellsouth.net> >>> Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Surname SLOGDALE >>> >>> Is there anyone on the list researching the family named SLOGDALE. I am trying to determine which family a James SLOGDALE b. 1901 belonged to and the connection to my family. This is the 1901 census >>> Living at 25 Burrowgate, Penrith, Cumbria >>> Charles Jefferson Grisdale head age 30 b. Penrith >>> Florence (nee Reay/Hardisty) wife aged 29 b. Penrith >>> William Grisdale son age 8 b. Penrith >>> JAMES SLOGDALE nephew age one month b. Penrith >>> Mary Ann (nee ROBSON) Grisdale mother age 67 b. Ainstable (my gr. grandmother) >>> Thank you for any help or suggestions >>> Rene, North Carolina/USA

Dear Petra......YOU are an absolute GENIUS. You should be VERY proud of yourself. My mind is spinning from all the info below. You have done SO much work on my behalf and so many finds. What a "colorful" background I have inherited and as you said.....the lady was a "breeding machine" and I would say must have had quite a "reputation". No wonder this Stogdale/Hardisty/Reay family has given me so many brick walls and such a merry dance. But, you have knocked so many bricks down that I am thrilled and so appreciative, Petra. Now to write it all on paper and study it and try to find enough leaves for her branch. It is a wonder she hasn't toppled the tree!!!!!! Thank you, Thank you. Rene (nee Grisdale) Smith/USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Petra Mitchinson" <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] ENG-CUMBRIA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 22 > Wow, Rene, I just love complex families!! > > I had a bit of a look into the background of Ann STOGDALE/HARDISTY/REAY - > what a woman!! (Or should I say - breeding machine??) > > Not only did she have the two marriages, but she also had children before > the first and between the two marriages! > > First of all, I found the birth of Florence by searching in Penrith > District 1871-1873 by first name only. She was registered as HARDESTY: > > Birth Dec 1871 HARDESTY, Florence Penrith 10b 402 > > As she was born about a year before Ann HARDISTY nee STOGDALE's marriage > to William REAY, but well after William HARDISTY's death, you can't even > be sure who her father is - unless he is named on the birth certificate. > Florence could of course have been a premarital child to William REAY. > Which would explain why she used the REAY surname. As her mother's surname > was HARDISTY at the time Florence was born, it is quite correct that her > birth was registered under that surname. Maybe the priest/registrar at her > marriage insisted that she used the name she had at birth. Maybe she was > not a REAY at all but usually just used her stepfather's surname, as many > illegitimate children did. > > Initially I could not find William HARDISTY's death, calculating that he > must have died between Charles Henry's conception and the 1871 census. No > luck anywhere in the country. And then I thought - if Ann had one child > between her marriages, why not another one? And I checked the deaths > between the 1861 and 1871 censuses and found: > > Death Dec 1867 HARDESTY, William 29 Penrith 10b 262 > > So Charles Henry was another illegitimate one, and it is anybody's guess > who the father was! > > Now to the premarital children: > > On the 1861 census there is a 5-year-old son called Isaac HARDISTY born in > Temple Sowerby. As William HARDISTY and Ann STOGDALE did not get married > until June Quarter 1859, he must have been either Ann's illegitimate son, > or William HARDISTY's son from a previous relationship/marriage. > > Searching births in East Ward District (which contains Temple Sowerby) > 1854-1857 for the first name Isaac brought up this birth: > > Birth Mar 1856 STOCKDALE, Isaac E Ward 10b 522 > > Then there was Elizabeth born about 1857/58, who was called HARDISTY in > 1861 but STOGDALE in 1871. She clearly must have been an illegitimate > child of Ann's. FreeBMD did not come up with any Elizabeth with a suitable > surname in East Ward at the right time. However there was a baptism on the > IGI: > > Bap. 31 Aug 1857 Temple Sowerby: Elizabeth, daur. of Thomas HUTCHINSON & > Ann STOCKDALE. > > So I checked the original birth index images for September Quarter 1857 > and found: > > Birth Sep 1857 STOCKDALE, Betsy East Ward 10b 485 > > And indeed, it was on FreeBMD as well. > > Interestingly, the IGI also threw up this baptism: > > Bap. 07 May 1859 Temple Sowerby: Elizabeth, daur. of William HUTCHINSON & > Ann STOCKDALE > > What?? Another baptism of the same child? But the father's first name has > changed! And also, it is just around the time when Ann's daughter Esther > was born - she was aged 1 in the 1861 census, so could have been born > between April 1859 and around April 1860. > > There wasn't a baptism for an Esther STOCKDALE or HARDISTY around the > right time, nor a birth registration! The only girls called Esther > registered in East Ward District between 1858 and 1860 were called DALTON > (Mar 1858), BIRTLE (Sep 1858) and HARRISON (Dec 1860), so neither surnames > nor timing fit. > > What if Esther started life as Elizabeth? That would fit the baptism. > Searching FreeBMD for the birth of an Elizabeth in East Ward District in > March or June Quarter 1859 did not bring up anything useful, in fact I > even brought up ALL births in East Ward in those two quarters without > success. Very strange. > > I still think the baptism of the second Elizabeth in 1859 refers to > Esther, but why her birth does not appear to have been registered I do not > understand. Incidentally, that baptism took place in the same quarter as > Ann's marriage to William HARDISTY. > > So it seems Elizabeth did use the surname STOGDALE, and Esther was also > "entitled" to it, although she doesn't appear to have used it. Baby James > STOGDALE could have belonged to either of them. However, it seems Esther > HARDISTY married in June Quarter 1882, and Elizabeth STOCKDALE married > John ALLINSON also in June Quarter 1882 (I found the couple with children > in Penrith in 1891), so they would not have had an illegitimate baby > called STOGDALE in 1901. > > Incidentally, the 1861 census page for Temple Sowerby with the HARDISTY > family is incredible! Two households before the HARDISTYs are Isaac and > Mary STOGDALE, Ann's parents. In the next household after the HARDISTYs is > a widowed 72-year-old Margaret HARDISTY, who could be William's mother or > more likely grandmother. Four households further down is William STOGDALE, > Ann's brother, with wife and daughter. And I haven't checked the adjacent > pages, there may be more there! > > Of the other illegitimate children, Charles Henry appears to have stuck to > the surname HARDISTY. He lived in Penrith in 1901 with wife Ellen and > three children aged 7, 5 and 2. > > Isaac born in 1855/56 called himself HARDISTY in 1861 (when he was with > his stepfather William HARDISTY and mother Ann in Temple Sowerby), in 1871 > (when he was a Farm Servant in Edenhall, CUL) and 1881 (when he was > unmarried and a Joiner in Barton, WES). But in 1891 and 1901 he reverted > to the surname STOCKDALE. This may have had something to do with him > getting married - he was a Joiner lodging in Patterdale in 1891 and said > to be married, but not with his family. In 1901, he was at 3 Friar Street > in Penrith, a widower, Joiner and Carpenter, with numerous children, all > born in Penrith: Albert (16), Emily (14), Tom (11), William (9), Mary A. > (4) and Maud (2). > > Marriage Dec 1882 Penrith 10b 604 > Isaac STOGDALE matches Sarah Ann/Sarah Annie FAIRER, Annie JOHNSTON > and James NICHOLSON > > The 1891 census has at 23 West Lane in Penrith: Annie STOCKDALE (married, > age 30, born Penrith) with children Elizabeth (8), Albert (6), Emily (4) > and Tom (1). So it is likely that her maiden name was JOHNSTON. > > And then to clinch it all, there is: > > Death Mar 1901 STOCKDALE, Annie 39 Penrith 10b 315 > > So she died giving birth to baby James - her widower Isaac could look > after the older children but obviously could not cope with a newborn baby, > so he asked his younger halfsister Florence to look after baby James. As I > said in my last email, James STOCKDALE's birth was also registered in > Penrith District in March Quarter 1901. > > So there you are - mystery solved! Little James was Charles GRISDALE's > half-nephew-in-law, if you want to be pedantic - but nephew pretty much > fits the bill! > > Petra > (very pleased with herself) > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:34:30 -0400 >> From: "Rene Smith" <terryrene@bellsouth.net> >> Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] STOGDALE/REAY/HARDISTY >> >> Hi Petra, thank you for spending so much time looking for me. I have >> felt it all quite "strange" also. Another friend of mine who has been >> helping me just sent me an e mail a couple of hours before yours and it >> seems to answer a few questions and another "path" to maybe search. I >> will try to make it consise below..... >> >> William HARDISTY married 1859 Ann STOGDALE b. 1835 in Temple Sowerby. >> Then Ann must have been widowed and she married William REAY in 1872. >> The REAY and HARDISTY family is on the 1881 census with William REAY head >> of the household and living at 25 Burrowgate, Penrith....pc. 5141/7 pg 7. >> Then in 1901, Charles Grisdale and Forence lived at this address with >> James STOGDALE, the baby. (The Grisdale family all lived in the areas of >> Burrowgate, Middlegate, etc., in Penrith, so this would link in) >> >> YES, to answer your question, Petra, Florence does have a sister named >> Margaret REAY on the 1881 census aged 5 years, but she is a younger >> sister. >> >> I am now wondering whether the Margaret Reay you found who married a >> James STOCKDALE in 1874 could have been the sister of William Reay, the >> stepfather of Florence Reay/Hardisty? and the transcribers have gone >> between STOCKDALE/ >> STOGDALE/ and SLOGDALE......have I totally confused you now, Petra. >> >> Florence uses her name REAY in the 1881 census, but when she married >> Charles Jefferson Grisdale, she used the name Florence HARDISTY. On the >> 1891 census James Stogdale is listed as a nephew of Charles J. Grisdale >> head of the household and that appears to be through his mother in law's >> maiden name STOGDALE. >> >> We still cannot find a birth for James STOGDALE (guess the "t" was >> written as an "L". I can understand where the name STOGDALE came in now, >> with that being the maiden name of Florence's mother, but still do not >> understand who the >> parents could be of James STOGDALE b. 1901 in Penrith and aged one month >> on the 1901 census. >> >> On top of all that, I can never find a birth certificate for FLORENCE >> REAY or HARDISTY b. 1872 according to the census in 1881 and 1891 (when >> she was Florence Grisdale). >> >> If you have any ideas, Petra, I will welcome them with open arms. Thank >> you again for trying to help me with this mystery. I do hope you are >> feeling much better. > >> Rene >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Petra Mitchinson" <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk> >> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 5:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Surname SLOGDALE >> >>> Hi Rene, >>> >>> Now this is all rather strange. >>> >>> I cannot find this census entry on Ancestry. Have they not >>> filmed/transcribed that page??? Can you tell us the Piece, folio and >>> page number to check? >>> >>> I then tried to find ANY event for the surname of SLOGDALE on FreeBMD >>> between 1870 and 1911 - and there wasn't a SINGLE one, in particular not >>> the birth of James in March or June Quarter 1901! >>> >>> I suspect SLOGDALE is either a transcription error, or was badly >>> misspelt by the enumerator in the first place. >>> >>> I then looked for all births with the first name James in Penrith >>> Registration District in March and June Quarter 1901. There were 6 in >>> March, and none in June (which in itself is rather strange). >>> >>> Amongst those in March Quarter, there was: >>> >>> Birth March 1901 STOCKDALE, James Penrith 10b 520 >>> >>> That seems like quite a likely error - someone left out the cross bar on >>> the t, and wrote g for ck. >>> >>> I then looked for female GRISDALE marriages between 1881 and 1905 in >>> Penrith District - none of them matched a STOCKDALE, SLOGDALE or >>> anything remotely like it. Neither was there a GRISDALE or a GRISEDALE >>> marriage matching a STOCKDALE between 1871 and 1905 countrywide. Neither >>> was there a STOCKDALE/HARDISTY marriage in that timespan. >>> >>> There was one marriage of a male STOCKDALE matching a female REAY (but >>> there are two couples on the page): >>> >>> Marriage Dec 1874 Carlisle 10b 880 >>> Robert STOCKDALE matches Margaret REAY >>> >>> Did Florence have an older sister called Margaret? >>> >>> It eez a mystery!! >>> >>> Petra >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:36:41 -0400 >>>> From: "Rene Smith" <terryrene@bellsouth.net> >>>> Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Surname SLOGDALE >>>> >>>> Is there anyone on the list researching the family named SLOGDALE. I >>>> am trying to determine which family a James SLOGDALE b. 1901 belonged >>>> to and the connection to my family. This is the 1901 census >>>> Living at 25 Burrowgate, Penrith, Cumbria >>>> Charles Jefferson Grisdale head age 30 b. Penrith >>>> Florence (nee Reay/Hardisty) wife aged 29 b. Penrith >>>> William Grisdale son age 8 b. Penrith >>>> JAMES SLOGDALE nephew age one month b. Penrith >>>> Mary Ann (nee ROBSON) Grisdale mother age 67 b. Ainstable (my gr. >>>> grandmother) >>>> Thank you for any help or suggestions >>>> Rene, North Carolina/USA > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Rene, Now this is all rather strange. I cannot find this census entry on Ancestry. Have they not filmed/transcribed that page??? Can you tell us the Piece, folio and page number to check? I then tried to find ANY event for the surname of SLOGDALE on FreeBMD between 1870 and 1911 - and there wasn't a SINGLE one, in particular not the birth of James in March or June Quarter 1901! I suspect SLOGDALE is either a transcription error, or was badly misspelt by the enumerator in the first place. I then looked for all births with the first name James in Penrith Registration District in March and June Quarter 1901. There were 6 in March, and none in June (which in itself is rather strange). Amongst those in March Quarter, there was: Birth March 1901 STOCKDALE, James Penrith 10b 520 That seems like quite a likely error - someone left out the cross bar on the t, and wrote g for ck. I then looked for female GRISDALE marriages between 1881 and 1905 in Penrith District - none of them matched a STOCKDALE, SLOGDALE or anything remotely like it. Neither was there a GRISDALE or a GRISEDALE marriage matching a STOCKDALE between 1871 and 1905 countrywide. Neither was there a STOCKDALE/HARDISTY marriage in that timespan. There was one marriage of a male STOCKDALE matching a female REAY (but there are two couples on the page): Marriage Dec 1874 Carlisle 10b 880 Robert STOCKDALE matches Margaret REAY Did Florence have an older sister called Margaret? It eez a mystery!! Petra ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:36:41 -0400 > From: "Rene Smith" <terryrene@bellsouth.net> > Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Surname SLOGDALE > > Is there anyone on the list researching the family named SLOGDALE. > I am trying to determine which family a James SLOGDALE b. 1901 > belonged to and the connection to my family. This is the 1901 census > Living at 25 Burrowgate, Penrith, Cumbria > Charles Jefferson Grisdale head age 30 b. Penrith > Florence (nee Reay/Hardisty) wife aged 29 b. Penrith > William Grisdale son age 8 b. Penrith > JAMES SLOGDALE nephew age one month b. Penrith > Mary Ann (nee ROBSON) Grisdale mother age 67 b. Ainstable (my gr. grandmother) > Thank you for any help or suggestions > Rene, North Carolina/USA

Hi Petra, thank you for spending so much time looking for me. I have felt it all quite "strange" also. Another friend of mine who has been helping me just sent me an e mail a couple of hours before yours and it seems to answer a few questions and another "path" to maybe search. I will try to make it consise below..... William HARDISTY married 1859 Ann STOGDALE b. 1835 in Temple Sowerby. Then Ann must have been widowed and she married William REAY in 1872. The REAY and HARDISTY family is on the 1881 census with William REAY head of the household and living at 25 Burrowgate, Penrith....pc. 5141/7 pg 7. Then in 1901, Charles Grisdale and Forence lived at this address with James STOGDALE, the baby. (The Grisdale family all lived in the areas of Burrowgate, Middlegate, etc., in Penrith, so this would link in) YES, to answer your question, Petra, Florence does have a sister named Margaret REAY on the 1881 census aged 5 years, but she is a younger sister. I am now wondering whether the Margaret Reay you found who married a James STOCKDALE in 1874 could have been the sister of William Reay, the stepfather of Florence Reay/Hardisty? and the transcribers have gone between STOCKDALE/ STOGDALE/ and SLOGDALE......have I totally confused you now, Petra. Florence uses her name REAY in the 1881 census, but when she married Charles Jefferson Grisdale, she used the name Florence HARDISTY. On the 1891 census James Stogdale is listed as a nephew of Charles J. Grisdale head of the household and that appears to be through his mother in law's maiden name STOGDALE. We still cannot find a birth for James STOGDALE (guess the "t" was written as an "L". I can understand where the name STOGDALE came in now, with that being the maiden name of Florence's mother, but still do not understand who the parents could be of James STOGDALE b. 1901 in Penrith and aged one month on the 1901 census. On top of all that, I can never find a birth certificate for FLORENCE REAY or HARDISTY b. 1872 according to the census in 1881 and 1891 (when she was Florence Grisdale). If you have any ideas, Petra, I will welcome them with open arms. Thank you again for trying to help me with this mystery. I do hope you are feeling much better. Rene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Petra Mitchinson" <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Surname SLOGDALE > Hi Rene, > > Now this is all rather strange. > > I cannot find this census entry on Ancestry. Have they not > filmed/transcribed that page??? Can you tell us the Piece, folio and page > number to check? > > I then tried to find ANY event for the surname of SLOGDALE on FreeBMD > between 1870 and 1911 - and there wasn't a SINGLE one, in particular not > the birth of James in March or June Quarter 1901! > > I suspect SLOGDALE is either a transcription error, or was badly misspelt > by the enumerator in the first place. > > I then looked for all births with the first name James in Penrith > Registration District in March and June Quarter 1901. There were 6 in > March, and none in June (which in itself is rather strange). > > Amongst those in March Quarter, there was: > > Birth March 1901 STOCKDALE, James Penrith 10b 520 > > That seems like quite a likely error - someone left out the cross bar on > the t, and wrote g for ck. > > I then looked for female GRISDALE marriages between 1881 and 1905 in > Penrith District - none of them matched a STOCKDALE, SLOGDALE or anything > remotely like it. Neither was there a GRISDALE or a GRISEDALE marriage > matching a STOCKDALE between 1871 and 1905 countrywide. Neither was there > a STOCKDALE/HARDISTY marriage in that timespan. > > There was one marriage of a male STOCKDALE matching a female REAY (but > there are two couples on the page): > > Marriage Dec 1874 Carlisle 10b 880 > Robert STOCKDALE matches Margaret REAY > > Did Florence have an older sister called Margaret? > > It eez a mystery!! > > Petra > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:36:41 -0400 >> From: "Rene Smith" <terryrene@bellsouth.net> >> Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Surname SLOGDALE >> >> Is there anyone on the list researching the family named SLOGDALE. >> I am trying to determine which family a James SLOGDALE b. 1901 >> belonged to and the connection to my family. This is the 1901 census >> Living at 25 Burrowgate, Penrith, Cumbria >> Charles Jefferson Grisdale head age 30 b. Penrith >> Florence (nee Reay/Hardisty) wife aged 29 b. Penrith >> William Grisdale son age 8 b. Penrith >> JAMES SLOGDALE nephew age one month b. Penrith >> Mary Ann (nee ROBSON) Grisdale mother age 67 b. Ainstable (my gr. >> grandmother) >> Thank you for any help or suggestions >> Rene, North Carolina/USA > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Petra OOOPS shouldn't rely on memory when replying to emails. You are quite right, first one was 1889. And yes that second marriage is the most likely to George. Thank you for all that. Back to the drawing board. Regards Liz Vincent 02 4677 2044 / 0419 003 806 P.O. Box 111 Picton NSW 2571 Australia liz@lizvincenttours.com.au www.lizvincenttours.com.au You have now been added to my mailing list. If you don't wish to be there, please email me to remove you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Petra Mitchinson" <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] MCCULLOCH family from Bowness > Hi Liz (sorry I called you Vincent last time!), > > I still think the George Wilson McCULLOCH / Mary LAWSON marriage in September Quarter 1888 is the more likely one. The timing fits much better (the first child, according to your own original message, was born in 1889), as does the place. If she lived in Bowness before and after her marriage, surely that's where she would get married? Also, where would Mary's middle name Ann suddenly have come from? Your Mary LAWSON was baptised Mary, not Mary Ann. Also, Mary would have been barely 17 in 1882, which is jolly young to get married (although not impossible). I agree that the variations of spelling of the name do not prove or disprove anything. > > The people on the page of the marriage of John McCULLOUGH in 1882 include Eliza SKILLEN, Thomas CHAMBERS and Mary Ann LAWSON. In the 1901 census, I found a couple called John & Eliza McCULLOCH in Workington. They had children aged 17 downwards who were born in Maryport and Workington (both of which are in Cockermouth District). And the 1891 census has a Thomas CHAMBERS in Maryport with a wife called Mary A. and children aged 7 downwards, which would fit neatly with a marriage in late 1882 - so it seems that Mary Ann LAWSON married Thomas CHAMBERS, and John McCULLOUGH actually married Eliza SKILLEN, not Mary Ann LAWSON! > > I really think you should discount the marriage in 1882 and concentrate on the one in 1888. > > Petra > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:43:10 +1100 > > From: "Liz Vincent" <liz@lizvincenttours.com.au> > > Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] ENG-CUMBRIA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 19 > > > > Hi Petra > > > > Yes I found the one in Cockermouth yesterday, must be only new on. Pretty sure that is the one to a John as the first child was born in 1882. > > > > The census all have it spelt MCCULLOCH but it is MCCULLOGH on the Free BMD site. > > > > I certainly know this Mary MCCULLOCH is mine as two children had second names HALLIFAX and GRAHAM which are her mother's and grandmother's maiden names. > > > > I wonder where John was though in the census, not too far away as she is managing to have 4 children. > > > > Regards > > Liz Vincent 02 4677 2044 / 0419 003 806 > > P.O. Box 111 Picton NSW 2571 Australia > > liz@lizvincenttours.com.au www.lizvincenttours.com.au > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Petra Mitchinson" <Petra.Mitchinson@doctors.org.uk> > > To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 6:47 AM > > Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] ENG-CUMBRIA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 19 > > > > > >> Hi Vincent, > >> > >> I looked on FreeBMD for a marriage of a Mary LAWSON to someone with the > > surname McCULL*, and only one came up, which I doubt is the correct one > > because Mary would have been only about 16, and also Bowness is in Wigton > > District, not in Cockermouth. > >> > >> However, for what it's worth, here it is: > >> > >> Marriage Dec 1882 Cockermouth 10b 868 > >> Mary Ann LAWSON matches John McCULLOUGH (2 couples on page) > >> > >> They could of course have been married in Scotland. > >> > >> I then tried for all McCULL* marriages in Cumberland between 1881 and > > 1891. They were of course numerous, with a variety of spellings. However, > > there was only one in Wigton: > >> > >> Marriage Sep 1888 McCULLOCH, George Wilson Wigton 10b 645 > >> with no matches at all. > >> > >> I then searched for all Marys who were married in Wigton in that quarter, > > and there was indeed a Mary LAWSON, but her page number was 646. I looked > > her up on the original index images on Ancestry, and the page number was > > clearly 645 - so there you've got your couple! I have submitted the > > correction to FreeBMD. > >> > >> Trying to find him on the census is a completely different matter as we > > neither know his age, place of birth or occupation! > >> > >> There is a George W. McCULLOCH boarding in Annan, Dumfriesshire in 1891. > > He is aged 29, a Railway Pointsman and born in Liverpool, but it is not > > stated what his marital status is, and the Scottish original images are not > > available on Ancestry. But there are lots of George McCULLOCHs around, and I > > haven't even checked any other spellings... > >> > >> Getting the marriage certificate would be the next step, that would give > > his age, occupation and father's name, which will make it much easier to > > find him. > >> > >> I checked FreeBMD for the birth of any child with the first name George > > Wilson between 1851 and 1871 - there were oodles, but none of them with a > > surname resembling McCULLOCH! So just to add to your woes, I suspect that he > > was illegitimate and started life as George WILSON - the words needle and > > haystack spring to mind! Unless, of course, he was born in Scotland... > >> > >> Good luck! > >> > >> Petra > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:20:01 +1100 > >> > From: "Liz Vincent" <liz@lizvincenttours.com.au> > >> > Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] MCCULLOCH family from Bowness > >> > > >> > Hi all > >> > > >> > Is anyone researching the MCCULLOCH family from Bowness. Mother was Mary nee LAWSON b. 1866 and children Annie Hallifax b. 1889, Mary Josephine b. 1892, Jane Anne b. 1893 and Emily Graham b. 1900. > >> > > >> > In the 1891 and 1901 census husband isn't there so I don't have his name. In both census Mary's mother Jane Ann LAWSON is living with her. > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > Liz Vincent > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Is there anyone on the list researching the family named SLOGDALE. I am trying to determine which family a James SLOGDALE b. 1901 belonged to and the connection to my family. This is the 1901 census Living at 25 Burrowgate, Penrith, Cumbria Charles Jefferson Grisdale head age 30 b. Penrith Florence (nee Reay/Hardisty) wife aged 29 b. Penrith William Grisdale son age 8 b. Penrith JAMES SLOGDALE nephew age one month b. Penrith Mary Ann (nee ROBSON) Grisdale mother age 67 b. Ainstable (my gr. grandmother) Thank you for any help or suggestions Rene, North Carolina/USA