Hi All, Just wondering if anyone knows of a website that may have the Official numbers of each Port at all, please. I have the Ticket Number of my Austin POWER in the Series Two (1845-54) which besides giving his birth date and description, etc gives a heap of numbers. According to Tracing Your Ancestors in the Public Record Office (Page 60) those numbers indicate the Port the ship was registered in; and also what Ports he sailed from and to. In Austin's case there is a number 186 78 6 at the top, which I suppose to indicate where the ship was registered. On the next line are the Port Number and the date he left or arrived. I think it is referring to 1845 as it says he is 27 then and this is when the Ticket was issued in Plymouth. He first went to sea as a Boy in 1833. The first number is 96 8 8. Indicating the Port Number the ship left from on the 8 August. Arrived at Port 60 on the 11 November. Numbers of Port I am interested in are 96, 60, 78, and 18....I think. J I also have another set of numbers.... 403 78. Below that it has 6 and 45. Whether this is another Port I do not know. 186 786 186 786 403 78 186 786 186 78 6 186 78 6 96 8 8 60 11 11 6 45 78 1 8 60 5 18 18 3 4 Thanking you for any help you can give me with this. Hooray, Warren in West Melton 3337 Australia.

Hi Warren, I can't help you with Port numbers, but I do have the Place Name Index of Habitations in Cumberland. There is no Pargate at all, but I wonder whether it is a corruption of Parkgate? There are several of those in Cumberland: Parkgate, parish of Irton, grid reference NY 11 00 Parkgate, parish of Matterdale, grid reference NY 39 21 Parkgate, parish of Wigton, NY 21 46 Parkgate Cottage, Lanercost parish, NY 55 70 None of them is close to Whitehaven. However, the Place Name Index is not entirely complete - particularly places that no longer exist are sometimes missing. Hope this helps. Petra ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:07:11 +1000 > From: "Mokurai" <mokurai@powercrt.com> > Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] : : Port Official Numbers. > > PS: Also..... I have a Joseph Robert RAILTON, ticket number 10278. He was > born in Pargate in November 1839. Can SKS tell me if Pargate is near > Whitehaven by any chance please. > > Thanking you for any help you can give me with this. > > Hooray, > > Warren in West Melton 3337 Australia.

I have a book Tracing Your Ancestors by Marylyn Yurdan. Used to be a Library book but I expect they have updated to a newer version...cost 20 cents eh. Under the heading Birth and Baptism, page 90, is a few paragraphs on Illegitimacy. Here it tells how the Vicars used various methods of revealing or concealing the parents names. Some were called bastards or spurious; fatherless child or husbandless mother. Sometimes they wrote it in, in Latin. Some referred to it as a love child; but it would appear they also wrote it up using the word alias indicating the mother's surname and the fathers surname with the word Alias inbetween. For instance he would be known as John Jones alias Smith. This alias however, could also imply an adoption or where the mother has remarried. And of course it became a habit of using the mother's maiden name with the children of a normal (for want of another word) family. For instance my great grandfather was Hiram Alfred Jeffery POWER. His mother had been a JEFFERY. In New Zealand there is another POWER family where they all carry the middle name of Wilson. At present I am attempting to help an ex Navy mate trace his family in Whitehaven. We are having a wee bit of trouble with William being eight years old in the Census of 1871; whilst George married Sarah in 1867; and then he arrives in New Zealand and marries....saying he is 27 in 1894. Seems we are looking at two Churches...St James and St Nicholas. Really need to get a heap of RAILTONs to do their Y-DNA to compare with as Rails only has himself in the whole of the various DNA Labs. Only then can we decide whether William was really a son of George or from another surname. RTegards, Warren C. O. Power in West Melton 3337 Australia (ex Kiwi). http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dnapower -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of I Baig Sent: Tuesday, 13 April 2010 10:12 AM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Re parish register entries re single mums Morning, I was searching parish registers yesterday in the early 1700s and came across a few entries saying: ......., son of Mary ....... who affirmed in her labour that .John........was the father. Does anyone know if this actually mean that they literally interrogated the mother while she was giving birth about who the father was? Regards, Natalie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I am searching for any family of David & Elaine (nee BROOKER) TURNER who lived in Cumbria. Thanks Helen McNamara New Zealand No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2806 - Release Date: 04/12/10 18:32:00

Morning, I was searching parish registers yesterday in the early 1700s and came across a few entries saying: ......., son of Mary ....... who affirmed in her labour that .John........was the father. Does anyone know if this actually mean that they literally interrogated the mother while she was giving birth about who the father was? Regards, Natalie

Posted with the kind permission of the Listowner. You are cordially invited to visit www.familynotices.org, a totally non-commercial & privately-owned site. Following the death of a close family member, I was surprised at the charges levied by the local newspaper for posting just a small obituary. The same applies to birth, engagement, marriages notices et al. It made me think through the whole 'public notices' thing and I created FamilyNotices.org which is an on-line repository for all such, with no fees or charges to view, search or post. Unlike a newspaper this has the advantage of being world-wide, free and doesn't get thrown away! Please feel free to help yourself and post anything which is relevant and appropriate - and it doesn't have to be current. Details of 'Auntie Millie born in 1896' is just as relevant as a modern-day wedding notice. If you like it, please tell your friends, for anyone is welcome to post good news or sad news. .........& if you don't, just tell me! Cheers for now, Nigel ______________________________________________ FamilyNotices.org - the free online repository for all notices of Births, Deaths, Marriages, Engagements, Anniversaries and Missing Persons Doing it for free - unlike the newspapers ! Visit www.familynotices.org Follow us on Twitter www.twitter.com/familynotices ______________________________________________

Many thanks Chris - it's very helpful to see some examples, especially the early ones. frances -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of eng-cumbria-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 3 April 2010 6:00 PM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: ENG-CUMBRIA Digest, Vol 5, Issue 21 Today's Topics: 1. BMD (Chris Dickinson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 11:29:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Chris Dickinson <chris@dickinson.uk.net> Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] BMD To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <203840.53739.qm@web86004.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Frances Some examples of what you might expect to find : (actual records, from a Cumberland parish) : Baptisms 1702 April John bastard s. of Elisabeth Gasket 1705 Jan 1 Elizabeth d. of Henry [and Jane] Wood of Hole-dale [in the above case, January 1 is actually in 1705/6. The modern year would be 1706. The [and Jane] comes from the BT - the register, presumably copied out neatly after the BT was made,?didn't mention the mother] 1803 Feb 10 William s. of William and Joice Irvin, miller at Kelton Mill, born 26 Jan 1804 Marriages 1704 June 13 John Stainton and Frances Fleeming 1705 Dec Henry Wright and Rebekah Jackson, 2 qkers married but not be me 1762 May 16 Daniel Pearson, whitesmith?and Isabel Wilkinson, spr. both of this parish Burials 1704 April 21 Joseph Dixon 1707 Feb 24 (Magdalene) wife of?John Jackson or Redhow? [in the above case the year would be the modern 1708. Magdalene is missed from the BT, but is in the register] 1708 July 17 Mary d. of John Littledale, dyed on 16th about 6 morn 1804 April 30 John s. of William and Frances Bowman of Birkdike; he died of a short illness Apr. 28, aged 18 So, as you can see, lots of variations in the detail. Just depends on what the local clerk, curate or rector decided to include. You should be able to see films of at least the BT from your local LDS FHC or local Cumbrian RO.? Chris ------------------------------ To contact the ENG-CUMBRIA list administrator, send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the ENG-CUMBRIA mailing list, send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ENG-CUMBRIA Digest, Vol 5, Issue 21 ****************************************** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.800 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2784 - Release Date: 04/03/10 05:32:00

Frances Some examples of what you might expect to find : (actual records, from a Cumberland parish) : Baptisms 1702 April John bastard s. of Elisabeth Gasket 1705 Jan 1 Elizabeth d. of Henry [and Jane] Wood of Hole-dale [in the above case, January 1 is actually in 1705/6. The modern year would be 1706. The [and Jane] comes from the BT - the register, presumably copied out neatly after the BT was made, didn't mention the mother] 1803 Feb 10 William s. of William and Joice Irvin, miller at Kelton Mill, born 26 Jan 1804 Marriages 1704 June 13 John Stainton and Frances Fleeming 1705 Dec Henry Wright and Rebekah Jackson, 2 qkers married but not be me 1762 May 16 Daniel Pearson, whitesmith and Isabel Wilkinson, spr. both of this parish Burials 1704 April 21 Joseph Dixon 1707 Feb 24 (Magdalene) wife of John Jackson or Redhow  [in the above case the year would be the modern 1708. Magdalene is missed from the BT, but is in the register] 1708 July 17 Mary d. of John Littledale, dyed on 16th about 6 morn 1804 April 30 John s. of William and Frances Bowman of Birkdike; he died of a short illness Apr. 28, aged 18 So, as you can see, lots of variations in the detail. Just depends on what the local clerk, curate or rector decided to include. You should be able to see films of at least the BT from your local LDS FHC or local Cumbrian RO.  Chris

Many thanks Michael, appreciate your advice. frances -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of eng-cumbria-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 31 March 2010 6:00 PM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: ENG-CUMBRIA Digest, Vol 5, Issue 19 Today's Topics: 1. Parish records in Westmorland (Frances) 2. Re: Parish records in Westmorland (Michael Lightfoot) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:06:51 +1100 From: "Frances" <fparker@bigpond.com> Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Parish records in Westmorland To: <ENG-CUMBRIA@rootsweb.com>, <ENG-WESTMORLAND@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <D12E10A8204A41D5B7C868A9A69CB0F0@owner3db3c1193> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone As yet, I haven't seen any original parish records or Bishops Transcripts from Westmorland - apart from a marriage record for 1780s - and would appreciate some advice before I seek copies. The records of most of my Westmorland ancestors who are on IGI come from Bishops Transcripts. Do the BTs contain more details than IGI? Does the info on Westmorland BTs tend to differ from parish records? What is listed on parish birth/christening records and death/burial records for the early 1700s to mid 1800s? Is it the same as other counties? (eg. baptism: date, name, both parents, abode, occupation. burial: name, abode, date, age). And does it vary between parishes? Many thanks Frances Parker Sydney Australia ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:20:41 +1100 From: Michael Lightfoot <michael.lightfoot@pcug.org.au> Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Parish records in Westmorland To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com, ENG-WESTMORLAND@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <201003310920.41990.michael.lightfoot@pcug.org.au> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Wednesday 31 March 2010 09:06:51 Frances wrote: > > The records of most of my Westmorland ancestors who are on IGI come from > Bishops Transcripts. Do the BTs contain more details than IGI? Probably. It depends on what type of record and what period. > Does the > info on Westmorland BTs tend to differ from parish records? Theoretically no. They are meant to be copies of the parish record. That said, they do contain transcription errors and they might leave out the little comments vicars or parish clerks sometimes add. > What is listed > on parish birth/christening records and death/burial records for the early > 1700s to mid 1800s? Early reocrds were whatever the person recording it felt like putting in the record. After 1812 or so there was a printed proforma so the records are somewhat standardised. What is in the various record types varies with the record type and the date as the proforma changed over time. > Is it the same as other counties? (eg. baptism: > date, name, both parents, abode, occupation. burial: name, abode, date, > age). And does it vary between parishes? > See above. After 1812 the entries should be standardised throughout the U.K. -- ==== Michael Lightfoot Canberra, Australia OPC Merther, St Breock & Egloshayle, Cornwall see http://www.cornwall-opc.org michael.lightfoot@pcug.org.au ==== ------------------------------ To contact the ENG-CUMBRIA list administrator, send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the ENG-CUMBRIA mailing list, send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ENG-CUMBRIA Digest, Vol 5, Issue 19 ****************************************** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2780 - Release Date: 03/31/10 05:32:00

On Wednesday 31 March 2010 09:06:51 Frances wrote: > > The records of most of my Westmorland ancestors who are on IGI come from > Bishops Transcripts. Do the BTs contain more details than IGI? Probably. It depends on what type of record and what period. > Does the > info on Westmorland BTs tend to differ from parish records? Theoretically no. They are meant to be copies of the parish record. That said, they do contain transcription errors and they might leave out the little comments vicars or parish clerks sometimes add. > What is listed > on parish birth/christening records and death/burial records for the early > 1700s to mid 1800s? Early reocrds were whatever the person recording it felt like putting in the record. After 1812 or so there was a printed proforma so the records are somewhat standardised. What is in the various record types varies with the record type and the date as the proforma changed over time. > Is it the same as other counties? (eg. baptism: > date, name, both parents, abode, occupation. burial: name, abode, date, > age). And does it vary between parishes? > See above. After 1812 the entries should be standardised throughout the U.K. -- ==== Michael Lightfoot Canberra, Australia OPC Merther, St Breock & Egloshayle, Cornwall see http://www.cornwall-opc.org michael.lightfoot@pcug.org.au ====

Hello everyone As yet, I haven't seen any original parish records or Bishops Transcripts from Westmorland - apart from a marriage record for 1780s - and would appreciate some advice before I seek copies. The records of most of my Westmorland ancestors who are on IGI come from Bishops Transcripts. Do the BTs contain more details than IGI? Does the info on Westmorland BTs tend to differ from parish records? What is listed on parish birth/christening records and death/burial records for the early 1700s to mid 1800s? Is it the same as other counties? (eg. baptism: date, name, both parents, abode, occupation. burial: name, abode, date, age). And does it vary between parishes? Many thanks Frances Parker Sydney Australia

Hi All, Last weekend a brand, new site was launched. http://sites.google.com/a/cumberland-document.com/cumberland-document-transcriptions/home. If this link does not work, please copy and paste. This site has been made possible by a small group of Cumberland Listers, who have given their time, skills and donations towards the preservation of Original Documents referring to Cumberland Family History. We source these documents, prepare and transcribe them, post them on this site for everyone to have access to them, then the original document will be donated to be held in the Archives of the Cumberland Records Office, where they will be accessible for yourselves, your heirs and assigns. I hope you find something of interest on our site. Perhaps you may be interested in helping with our work, please get in contact in order to join our group, all are welcome. Please feel free to leave your comments, as it is a site in progress and we would like to know what you think. Anne

Hi Warren, The Victorian Public Records Office have shipping list indexes online for outward bound passengers to interstate as well as international destinations that can be accessed at http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide023/PROVguide02 3.jsp Of course, if you want to see the full record you would have to go there to view the list on microfilm. I also found movements from Tasmania to interstate destinations online at the Tasmanian Archives. http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/database The NSW archives also have interstate shipping records. Haven't had the occasion to check out those of the other states. Cheers, Andrea. In Diamond Creek (Melbourne Metro) -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mokurai Sent: Thursday, 18 March 2010 10:33 AM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] : Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Hi Andrea, I have the same problem with my Mathew POWER who came from Waterford...big County when you don't know the parents..... and even bigger when the surname is POWER. I have him already getting married on the 28 October 1807, in the Parish of Northam, North Devon. Actually you tell us in the Census your Lass was from Parish of Disiblane, County Derry. My paternal grandmother's mother came from County Derry....otherwise known as Londonderry I think....in the North. In my case I was lucky there as when they married in Wellington, New Zealand they had to write down their parents names and professions. These were the CAMPBELLs of Antrim and McATEERs of Londonderry. I am told I can take it further as each County in Ireland has Research Bodies that will look them up for you i.e. Waterford Heritage Services in Waterford City. Unfortunately I am out of luck with Mathew as the 29 Parishes I snail mailed told me there were no records back then. The truth according to the book "Was Your Ancestor a Mariner?" they had to keep records back then back they did not keep copies for themselves.....simply sending the originals off to Dublin Records Office. And that was burned down in 1922 leaving Ireland without any history eh. Even what Waterford Heritage Centre had was only from Waterford City Parishes themselves. A total of four names of that era.... 1781-87! Might I ask you where you looked for the movements of ancestors between Cities in Australia please? I have Austin POWER and Alfred POWER moving between Dunedin/Auckland and Melbourne/Sydney but can find nothing to date. Have looked at Our Stuff but have not found them there. What POWERs I did find do not give the first names. Thanks. Hooray, Warren in West Melton, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2010 10:28 PM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Thanks John, I thought there would be passenger lists from one place to another within the UK. We have these in Australia where I can find records of persons travelling from one Australian port to another (eg. Melbourne to Hobart or Sydney & vice versa). How then do I go about finding my forbears who came to England (or Scotland for that matter) from Ireland? The census returns only list "Ireland" as the place of birth for the two I'm currently trying to trace and, as I don't have their parents' names, I was hoping that the shipping lists might shed some light. I've found shipping lists invaluable for this purpose in the past. Unfortunately no parents are listed at the time of marriage and the death records for these people have the parents listed as "unknown". All I have is the information from the marriage saying that she was from the parish of Disiblane, County Derry and he was from Rockliff, Cumberland. I'll go back to the census returns to see if I can find family that could be his in Rockliff but for her I don't know where to look. Any suggestions? Thanks, Andrea. -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Hanson Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2010 7:36 PM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com; eng-cul-carlisle@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Andrea You will not find any as Ireland at that time was part of England. In fact there are no passenger lists kept of passengers arriving in England from Ireland or Europe Regards John Hanson -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Sent: 17 March 2010 07:59 To: eng-cul-carlisle@rootsweb.com; eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Can anyone tell me what resources are available to look up shipping lists of migrants from Ireland to England, particularly Cumberland, in the early 1800s. Is there anything online? Thanks, Andrea Fitzgerald. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Andrea, I have the same problem with my Mathew POWER who came from Waterford...big County when you don't know the parents..... and even bigger when the surname is POWER. I have him already getting married on the 28 October 1807, in the Parish of Northam, North Devon. Actually you tell us in the Census your Lass was from Parish of Disiblane, County Derry. My paternal grandmother's mother came from County Derry....otherwise known as Londonderry I think....in the North. In my case I was lucky there as when they married in Wellington, New Zealand they had to write down their parents names and professions. These were the CAMPBELLs of Antrim and McATEERs of Londonderry. I am told I can take it further as each County in Ireland has Research Bodies that will look them up for you i.e. Waterford Heritage Services in Waterford City. Unfortunately I am out of luck with Mathew as the 29 Parishes I snail mailed told me there were no records back then. The truth according to the book "Was Your Ancestor a Mariner?" they had to keep records back then back they did not keep copies for themselves.....simply sending the originals off to Dublin Records Office. And that was burned down in 1922 leaving Ireland without any history eh. Even what Waterford Heritage Centre had was only from Waterford City Parishes themselves. A total of four names of that era.... 1781-87! Might I ask you where you looked for the movements of ancestors between Cities in Australia please? I have Austin POWER and Alfred POWER moving between Dunedin/Auckland and Melbourne/Sydney but can find nothing to date. Have looked at Our Stuff but have not found them there. What POWERs I did find do not give the first names. Thanks. Hooray, Warren in West Melton, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2010 10:28 PM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Thanks John, I thought there would be passenger lists from one place to another within the UK. We have these in Australia where I can find records of persons travelling from one Australian port to another (eg. Melbourne to Hobart or Sydney & vice versa). How then do I go about finding my forbears who came to England (or Scotland for that matter) from Ireland? The census returns only list "Ireland" as the place of birth for the two I'm currently trying to trace and, as I don't have their parents' names, I was hoping that the shipping lists might shed some light. I've found shipping lists invaluable for this purpose in the past. Unfortunately no parents are listed at the time of marriage and the death records for these people have the parents listed as "unknown". All I have is the information from the marriage saying that she was from the parish of Disiblane, County Derry and he was from Rockliff, Cumberland. I'll go back to the census returns to see if I can find family that could be his in Rockliff but for her I don't know where to look. Any suggestions? Thanks, Andrea. -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Hanson Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2010 7:36 PM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com; eng-cul-carlisle@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Andrea You will not find any as Ireland at that time was part of England. In fact there are no passenger lists kept of passengers arriving in England from Ireland or Europe Regards John Hanson -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Sent: 17 March 2010 07:59 To: eng-cul-carlisle@rootsweb.com; eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Can anyone tell me what resources are available to look up shipping lists of migrants from Ireland to England, particularly Cumberland, in the early 1800s. Is there anything online? Thanks, Andrea Fitzgerald. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks John, I thought there would be passenger lists from one place to another within the UK. We have these in Australia where I can find records of persons travelling from one Australian port to another (eg. Melbourne to Hobart or Sydney & vice versa). How then do I go about finding my forbears who came to England (or Scotland for that matter) from Ireland? The census returns only list "Ireland" as the place of birth for the two I'm currently trying to trace and, as I don't have their parents' names, I was hoping that the shipping lists might shed some light. I've found shipping lists invaluable for this purpose in the past. Unfortunately no parents are listed at the time of marriage and the death records for these people have the parents listed as "unknown". All I have is the information from the marriage saying that she was from the parish of Disiblane, County Derry and he was from Rockliff, Cumberland. I'll go back to the census returns to see if I can find family that could be his in Rockliff but for her I don't know where to look. Any suggestions? Thanks, Andrea. -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Hanson Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2010 7:36 PM To: eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com; eng-cul-carlisle@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Andrea You will not find any as Ireland at that time was part of England. In fact there are no passenger lists kept of passengers arriving in England from Ireland or Europe Regards John Hanson -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Sent: 17 March 2010 07:59 To: eng-cul-carlisle@rootsweb.com; eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Can anyone tell me what resources are available to look up shipping lists of migrants from Ireland to England, particularly Cumberland, in the early 1800s. Is there anything online? Thanks, Andrea Fitzgerald. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can anyone tell me what resources are available to look up shipping lists of migrants from Ireland to England, particularly Cumberland, in the early 1800s. Is there anything online? Thanks, Andrea Fitzgerald.

Andrea You will not find any as Ireland at that time was part of England. In fact there are no passenger lists kept of passengers arriving in England from Ireland or Europe Regards John Hanson -----Original Message----- From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Sent: 17 March 2010 07:59 To: eng-cul-carlisle@rootsweb.com; eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Migration from Ireland to England, early 1800s Can anyone tell me what resources are available to look up shipping lists of migrants from Ireland to England, particularly Cumberland, in the early 1800s. Is there anything online? Thanks, Andrea Fitzgerald. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email

Hi Warren, Thank you for your reply. It has given me some idea off what to actually look for. Thank you for your kindness Gisela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mokurai" <mokurai@powercrt.com> To: <eng-cumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:30 AM Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] : Nicholson & Armstrong > Hi Gisela, > > My workings suggest they were 20 and 17 in 1838 when they married. > Therefore > John would be 23 and Catherine would be 20 in the 1841 Census. I would > suggest you look for them as a married couple in the 1841 Census. And his > parents would not have him in their house except as part of the > family/boarders. Think you have the wrong family there if there is another > John of 19. Perhaps the family has moved away to another area. Maybe if > you > look for the parents in the 1851 Census, as that appears a better choice > in > locating families, and then using all the names of the children still at > home back track to the 1841 Census using the address given there. There is > a > difference between a Clothes Dealer and a Weaver. If he had been a weaver > in > the beginning and become a Clothes dealer later I think he would have > preferred to be known as that in the Census rather than as a weaver. > > Hooray, > > > Warren in West Melton 3337, Australia. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-cumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gisela > Sent: Monday, 15 March 2010 11:17 PM > To: ENG-CUMBRIA@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ENG-CUMBRIA] Nicholson & Armstrong > > Hi List, > > Does anyone have Nicolson & Armstrong in their family line? > > I have a marriage certificate of John ARMSTRONG and Catherine NICOLSON at > the Parish Church of Dalston by licence on 31st July 1838, > > For age both are down as minors, > > Address for John ARMSTRONG looks like Hawkesdale, Dalston. > Address for Catherine NICOLSON is Dalstron. > > Father off John is Matthew ARMSTRONG, occ. Clothes Dealer. > > Father off Catherine is Thomas NICHOLSON occ. Parish Clerk. > > Witnesses are Robert EMMERSON & Jane ARMSTRONG, > > The 1861 census (for Liverpool, all children born in Liverpool) has John > age > 43 and Catherine 40. > The 1851 census has John age 33 and Catherine age 30. > > I have an 1841 census for Parish off Stanwix town Houghton HO 107/170/4 > which has Matthew ARMSTRONG, weaver age 40 and wife Mary age 35. > The 1st 2 children are John age 19 and Catherine age 17. > I do not know if John & Catherine are brother & sister or if they are the > married couple that I am looking for? > > I would appreciate any advise for going back further and finding out about > the families that went before. > > Thanks in Advance for any further information. > Gisela > Australia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-CUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ian Roberts wrote in reply to my suggestions: > According to death and census records, Isabella Atkinson was born sometime between 1808-1810. She died in 1898, aged 89, in Croydon. > The birthdate through these records is consistent between these 3 years. Always either 1808, 1809, or 1810 (more often 1808 or 1809). > As far as I know, the Hattons did not have any blacksmith connections. They were plumbers, and "sanitary engineers", ie. garbagemen.... > I will continue with my research and see what I can find.... When looking at the name 'Isabella', it's always worth thinking about 'Elizabeth' as an alternative! The diminutives are similar (Ibby, Libby; Izzie, Lizzie; etc.), and so it's fairly easy for the name to transform, intentionally or accidentally. Your Atkinsons may simply have decided that Isabella sounded posher or more romantic as their girl grew older. I think it would be worth checking out, in the original registers, these two IGI baptisms and related entries: 24 October 1807 Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Atkinson & Jane, St Bees 24 June 1810 Elizabeth, daughter of Robert Atkinson & Jane, St Bees The most likely thing is that the first Elizabeth died and so they used the name again, so check burials for that. An alternative is that they decided to use Elizabeth again, say to flatter a relative as a godparent, and called the first Elizabeth Isabella from then on! OK, clutching at straws but worth pursuing maybe. The Whitehaven parishes had been carved out of St Bees. Whatever, there would be no problem about a girl being born in Whitehaven (the mother's family home) and being baptised at St Bees (the parental home). Chris

Hi All, I am still attempting to help my friend trace his family in Whitehaven. This time, though, I am wondering if SKS is able to locate any with the name of KINGSBURY .....about 1862. We have the RAILTONs in St James in Whitehaven, marrying on the 29 June 1867. At this stage they have a son who is about 5½ years old. Until we find other RAILTONs who have done their Y-DNA we cannot determine if he is indeed a RAILTON. We do know he matches a number of other surnames though ....KINGSBURY being one of them. It is said that if two people have an exact 25 marker match to another Y-DNA Participant then those two people had the exact same ancestor, sometime after 1066AD, regardless of surname as back then not everyone had surnames. Doing the 37 and 67 marker tests brings this ancestor forward in time, for when he was alive, depending on any mutations that have occurred after the 25 marker match. Thanking you for any assistance you can give us with this. Regards, Warren in West Melton 3337 Australia. Ps Other surnames of consideration are: HEGWER, EDWARDS, MARKHAM, ALMONY, and CUMMINS. Thank you, Over us no prince or barons known. We are all one of lordship alone. An equal and like life we share. Lord of himself is each man there. and each is faithful to the other.