Dear Mel, Many thanks for this. However, I think what was discussed may have been a bit misleading. I was telling Dorothy that the only Kitchens mentioned in the book were in the 1880s and therefore much too late to be attached to this tale. The story relates to the years about 1807-1808 when from the book the Headmaster of St. Bees/Vicar of Haile would have been Rev. John Barnes (Headmaster 1791-1811) or even possibly Rev. William Wilson (1811-1816). If the future curate "Kitchen" was at that time in the upper class of the school then one would presume that after a university education his reported curacy would have been about 1812 onwards. One of our relatives Rev. John Fox was Headmaster of St. Bees from 1830-1841 and also through that office Vicar of Haile. He was a nephew of Rev. John Fox, Provost of Queen's College, Oxford. My husband's great-grandparents Robert Coulthard (nephew of the Headmaster and great-nephew of the Provost) and his wife Annie (Brocklebank) had all their eight children baptised at Haile, even after they moved to Egremont and it was said by one of the family that all were held by the same local old lady for good luck. During this period Rev. Robert Coulthard of Sulhamstead, Berks (another Cumbrian graduate and Fellow of Queen's) said that he baptised his namesake, their second child Robert, at Haile on 8 October 1863. However, I believe it was the then Vicar who signed the register for this event. Regarding Haile being too small to have a curate, I suppose you are right unless the then Incumbent paid for one. I am just reporting the story as told in the book. Rev. Robert kept a diary of his life in Berkshire and visits to and from his Cumrian relations as well as some letters. He had about three parishes to look after but refused to employ a curate until the very last months/weeks of his life after his relatives begged him to get one and take life a little easier. He bowed to their pressure but continued with his "duty" up until the end, even after collapsing in church to the concern and consternation of his parishioners. Does anyone know when Crockford's Clerical Directory began? No doubt copies will be in the Society of Genealogists as well as other reference libraries. These give a potted history of the career of Church of England clergymen and so may provide some answers to the "Kitchen" question. Jill >Subject: Re: [CUL-COP] Schoolboy Parson> > I have checked out the entries the Haile Registers in the 1880s and all, with the exception of a couple, have been signed either by the Vicar of Haile or by other local vicars (such as the Vicar of Beckermet). The odd ones out were signed by a Samuel Barber in 1883 and he does not qualify his name with a title. I rather suspect Haile was too small a parish to have a curate. > > Mel>

Hi Jill Crockford's was first published in 1858 and at intervals ever since. Now it is published by the Church Commissioners and the Central Board of Finance of the Church of England. The directory lists all clergy who hold current appointments in the Church or who have retired recently from them. it also includes an index of churches and other places of worhip in the C of E with the benefice to which they relate and an index to benefices in Eng, Wales, and Ireland together with Scottish incumbencies and their assistant clergy. Before 1982 it was a directory of all the clergy of the Anglican Communion with the exception of the episcopal church in the USA. (From 'The Dictionary of Genealogy', Terrick Fitzhugh) This is probably more than you wanted to know, Jill, but I thought others on the list might be interested in the detail. :-) Dorothy G New Zealand - rom: John & Jill Coulthard [mailto:jjcoulthard@btinternet.com] bject: Re: [CUL-COP] Schoolboy Parson . Does anyone know when Crockford's Clerical Directory began? No doubt copies will be in the Society of Genealogists as well as other reference libraries. These give a potted history of the career of Church of England clergymen and so may provide some answers to the "Kitchen" question.

Hi, Further inspection of the Haile Parish Records shows that an Isaac Kitchen was the curate at Haile in the years 1814 to 1816 and he was succeeded by Abraham Brown in 1817. Mel ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Jill Coulthard" <jjcoulthard@btinternet.com> To: "Melville Cowin" <mel_cowin@btopenworld.com>; <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [CUL-COP] Schoolboy Parson > Dear Mel, > > Many thanks for this. However, I think what was discussed may have been a > bit misleading. I was telling Dorothy that the only Kitchens mentioned in > the book were in the 1880s and therefore much too late to be attached to > this tale. > > The story relates to the years about 1807-1808 when from the book the > Headmaster of St. Bees/Vicar of Haile would have been Rev. John Barnes > (Headmaster 1791-1811) or even possibly Rev. William Wilson (1811-1816). > If the future curate "Kitchen" was at that time in the upper class of the > school then one would presume that after a university education his reported > curacy would have been about 1812 onwards.