See below, In a message dated 12/13/02 1:27:08 PM Central Standard Time, chris@dickinson.uk.net writes: > David Henwood wrote (not in this order): > <snip> > > >He had one son, William Thomas who was baptised at Stoke > >Damerel, Devon, on 2/8/1787 - we are descended from him > <snip> > > Interesting that William Thomas was baptised so long after the > marriage. Was that simply because, er, conjugal bliss was > intermittent with Thomas being away at sea. Or, maybe, was she > sailing with him and this was the first chance to have the boy > baptised at home? > Any comments,anyone? I've done a couple of small sampling studies in small Cumberland parishes at the turn of the 19th century. I'm still trying to find my notes on the second one, but I remember the oldest there was a 14 year old girl. Here's one that I posted on "the other list." (ps That "other list" is getting hit with emails with attachments that look to be viruses ; be careful) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A while back I had ordered a film of "Bishops Transcripts, Diocese of Carlisle, Ireby Parish 1666-1812." Found what I needed very quickly and had time to study it. As a lot know just before registries were standardized (ordered c.1812 to be completed by c.1820) the priests in smaller parishes added a lot of great detail. Like ages ! So, at least for a small period in time, in a small Cumberland Parish, in the Church of England, we can get a sense of when children were baptized. I could deduce a number of factors going into the timing, so I don't believe a "standard" can be determined. The one that was most obvious was easiest, and saddest, to prove. I didn't include this in my notes, but as I remember for every child baptized under 14 days old I could also find a burial before the year was out. The extremes ranged from 14 hours to 5 years. Eliminating the skew the average worked out to roughly 2 or 3 weeks. In 1807 3 of 10 were listed as a "fortnight". Sometimes they were listed as "aged" and others the birth date was given. 1803 (excluding #10 average = 26.7 days) 1. 4 weeks 2. 29 days 3. 3 weeks 4. 33 days 5. 4 weeks 6. 22 days 7. 4 weeks 8. no age given 9. 13 days 10. 1 day 11. 20 days 12. 37 days 13. 5 weeks 1804 (excluding # 9 average = 23.8 days) 1. 8 days 2. 27 days 3. 4 weeks 4. 4 weeks 5. 4 weeks 6. 28 days 7. 3 days 8. 32 days 9. 14 hours 10. 1 month 11. 27 days 1805 9 total baptisms but only one with an age - 5 years. 1806 excluding #3 & #4 average = 32.8 days) 1. 94 days 2. 28 days 3. 155 days 4. 408 days 5. 7 days 6. 2 days 1807 (excluding #4 average = 16.2 days) 1. 1 month 2. a fortnight 3. a fortnight 4. 359 days (born such and such last year) 5. a fortnight 6. 3 weeks 7. no age given 8. 4 days 9. no age given 10. no age given Did not find any listings for 1808 (?) and after 1809 they stopped adding ages or birth dates. And no I apologize but I didn't write down names ( I was just another statistical census). David

As this will mentions a lot of names, it may be of interest to some of you; and, maybe, if you've never looked at a 17th century will, it may be of interest anyway. In the name of God, Amen. The Eighteenth day of April Anno Domini 1694 I Ellinor Hamilton of Whitehaven in the Parish of St Bees & County of Cumberland being sick & weak of body but of perfect mind & memory thanks be given unto Almighty God therefore calling unto mind the mortality of my body and knowing that it is appointed for all men once to die, doo make & ordain this my last will & Testament in Manner & form following, that is to say, first & principly I give my soul into the hands of Almighty God who gave it hoping to receive full remision for all my sins through the alone meritts of our blessed Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ, And for my body I comend to the Earth to be buried in Christian & decent manner nothing doubting but at the generall resurrection I shall receive the same again by the almighty power of God. And as touching such Worldly Estate as it hath pleased God to bless me with, I do give devise bequeath & dispose the same in Manner & form following. Imprimis I do order & appoint that the Hundred Pound that is in Mr Tho: Addison hand & Bonds I bequeath to my Goddaughter Mrs Jane Addison [probably the clerk missed out an & here] the summ of Tenn pounds. Item I give to my Goddaughter Mrs Bridget Addison the sum of Tenn Pounds Item I give to my son in law Mr Tho: Addison & Frances his now wife the Sum of Thirty pounds as also to the said Frances my best Scarfe which she was pleased to give me & a silver spoon to her daughter Bridget. Item I give to my nephew Mr Richard Senhouse the sum of fifty pounds [squeezed above: 'to be paid ye hundred pounds in Mr Addisons hand'] with fourteen pounds in John Inmans hand. Item I give to my niece Ann Johnson by Bond in Henry Myrehouse hand the Sum of Tenn pounds. Item I give & bestow on my niece Elizabeth Dickinson the four pound that she owes me, And also her two children to each of them the sum of five pounds or if the one dye to be given to ye other, and if they both dye in their Minority to be given to their Mother. Item I give to my niece Mary Benns three youngest children the sum of Tenn ppounds equally to be divided amongst them share & share like, & to my Goddaughter Ellinor Benn one Pound Silver Cupp & one Silver Spoon Item I give to my niece Barbara Barrows children the Sum of four pound that she owes me & five pounds more to be equally divided amongst them share & share alike. Item I give my nephew Richard Grayson towards eddorning his house the sum of Tenn pounds, & if he live till he enjoy the age of one & twenty years he shall pay to his two sisters the sum of fifty shillings a piece, & if he dye in his Minority it shall befall to his said two sisters. Item I give to my Kinsman & Godson John Hamilton the sum of four shillings. Item I give to Tho: Coates the Sum of Twenty Shillings. Item I give to my servant Mary Richardson one pair of Sheets & one silver spoon. Item I give to my cousin Susanna Senhouse the sum of Twenty shillings to buy her a ring & a pair of sheets. Item I give to Margaret Woodold the sum of Tenn Shillings. Item I give to my Kinsman & Nephew Mr Richd Senhouse one Silver Tankerd one Silver Spoon Mrkd C.G. and a Counter pair that is wrought. Item I give to my niece Elizabeth Dickinson one Cubbard. Item I give to my Coz: William Woodold late of Holehouse a Bill of forty shillings payable to myself I do really bestow it on him & Twenty shillings more in Money. Item I give to my little nephew Henry Johnson the sum of five shillings. Item I do give to Ann Sharp the sum of six shillings. Item I do devise order & appoint Mr Richard Senhouse & Mr Thomas Addison to be my joynt Executors to see this will performed. And when my Legacies are paid & my funerall Charges & other Expenses are defraid out of my personall Estate, & if any left to be equally devided betwixt them two, As also the Legacies to be pd within three Months. And I do hereby utterly disallow revoke and annull all & every other former Testaments Wills Legacies Bequeathes & Executors by me in any way before this time named willed & bequeathed ratifying & confirming this & none other to be my last Will & Testament. In Witness whereof I have hereunto sett my hand & seal the day & year before written. Sealed Signed published pronounced & declared by the Ellinor Hamilton said Ellinor Hamilton to be her mark E & Seal last Will & Testament in the presence of Md before sealing that these words (to be pd out of the Hundred pound in Mr Addison's hand) being first interlind Tho. Gale Saml Bowerbanke jur Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

To: Sue Horsman, The following may or may not interest you: Elizabeth DIXON, (dau. of Martin Dixon), married Francis Magson; she was born Feb. 18, 1582, Hawshead Church Stile, Lancs. (One of my connections). While looking at the Whitehaven Brownriggs I was sturck at how often the Dixon name crops us: 1672 Isabella Dixon's house licensed as a Presbyterian meeting house. 1702-22 Thomas Dixon the non-conformist Minister. 1763 George Brownrigg marries Jas, Dixon (unrelated to my lot, so far). Late C18th Joshua Dixon is William Brownrigg's medical colleague and obituarist (this B. is one of ours). But also, in 1798 Captain Dixon is the skipper of the ship in which Isabell Brownrigg and other women and children are confined at Wexford. Since the ship was a collier, maybe it operated on the Whitehaven run. A William Dixon in 1680, among others, appraises the goods and chattles of Rev. John Tubman of Whicham (another distant Brownrigg connection). Regards, Ann Brownrigg

----- Original Message ----- From: ashpat To: CUMBERLAND-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 1:56 PM Subject: even more Peil/Piels/Peill/Peile BMD of Cockermouth 1830 Burial 8th September, Robert Peil, 19, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett. 1831 Baptism 3rd July, Mary Ann dau of Joseph and Jane Peil, Cabinet maker, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett. 1831 Burial 10th March, Jonathan Peil, 79, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett. 25th August, Benjamin Peil, 23, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett. Patricia Clews

Hi All.....resending this because it hasn't turned up yet on the Lists......not quite sure what is happening here, but I think I have an idea why. We will see if this one arrives. ------------------------------ Found these the other day when looking up a Dickenson for Trudy. As usual, just recognized the names as ones that are often mentioned. Again, these are all from LDS film #90658 for St. Bees & St. Nicholas. Baptism, 25 Dec 1835 - Tyson, son of Joseph and Isabella Dickenson, abode Rothersyke, farmer, performed by Wm. Singer, Perpetual Curate. Also.....burial of Henry Dickenson of Rothersyke 15 Nov 1834, 3 months old.....by Thomas Stone. Also found...... Baptism, 14 Apr 1695 of Mary, daughter of George Brownrigge of Howman. Burial, 7 Oct 1695 of Edward Twentyman of Whitehaven Baptism 20 Nov 1836 of Elizabeth, daughter of James & Mary Borrowdale, abode St. Bees, Blacksmith, performed by Thomas Stone. Baptism 18 Dec. 1836 of Eleanor, daughter of Daniel & Mary Pattinson, abode Braystones, Husbandman, by Thomas Stone. Cheers....Heather (Bowness)

Hi All..... Found these the other day when looking up a Dickenson for Trudy. As usual, just recognized the names as ones that are often mentioned. Again, these are all from LDS film #90658 for St. Bees & St. Nicholas. Baptism, 25 Dec 1835 - Tyson, son of Joseph and Isabella Dickenson, abode Rothersyke, farmer, performed by Wm. Singer, Perpetual Curate. Also.....burial of Henry Dickenson of Rothersyke 15 Nov 1834, 3 months old.....by Thomas Stone. Also found...... Baptism, 14 Apr 1695 of Mary, daughter of George Brownrigge of Howman. Burial, 7 Oct 1695 of Edward Twentyman of Whitehaven Baptism 20 Nov 1836 of Elizabeth, daughter of James & Mary Borrowdale, abode St. Bees, Blacksmith, performed by Thomas Stone. Baptism 18 Dec. 1836 of Eleanor, daughter of Daniel & Mary Pattinson, abode Braystones, Husbandman, by Thomas Stone. Cheers....Heather (Bowness)

I have one very early John PEILE who married Frances (Francy) ALLANBY of Flimby. I have him marked down as being of Flimby as well. Would have been born in the early 1730's at a guess. Francy was born 31 Dec. 1735 (source is LDS film 90620 for Flimby Parish), and she married John PEILE on 28 August, 1760 in Dearham, Cumberland. I show the source for the wedding as Bill Reay's website for Dearham. Francy's sister married my John BOWNESS. That is the connection. Heather

----- Original Message ----- From: "H Todd" <bert@todd88.freeserve.co.uk> To: <CUMBERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 10:24 AM Subject: [CUL] thanks for the info > Hi All > Thanks to everyone that sent information about the Haughins, and fishing fleet. I am now in contact with a Haughin's g/son in Workington, and I have sent him the info, and we are now both trying to unravel the tree. > If anyone comes across any more information, it would be most well come. > Cheers Bert > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 21/08/2002 > > > ==== CUMBERLAND Mailing List ==== > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 21/08/2002

----- Original Message ----- From: "H Todd" <bert@todd88.freeserve.co.uk> To: <CUMBERLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 10:36 AM Subject: [CUL] BLUE FUNNEL LINE > Hi > I have been ask by someone in Cumbria, to help with the question below . Has anyone any information > Cheers > Bert > > . I also had a thought, it is said that one of our grandfathers sailed on a ships belonging to the Blue Funnel line. This Blue Funnel line had it's origins in Maryport then moved to Liverpool. They may have crew lists so if we can contact them we may obtain some info that we could use. That's if they still exist > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 21/08/2002 > > > ==== CUMBERLAND Mailing List ==== > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 21/08/2002

----- Original Message ----- From: "H Todd" <bert@todd88.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-LIVERPOOL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 10:24 AM Subject: [ENG-LIV] thanks for the info > Hi All > Thanks to everyone that sent information about the Haughins, and fishing fleet. I am now in contact with a Haughin's g/son in Workington, and I have sent him the info, and we are now both trying to unravel the tree. > If anyone comes across any more information, it would be most well come. > Cheers Bert > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 21/08/2002 > > > ==== ENG-LIVERPOOL Mailing List ==== > Have you used Tree Tops? > The Free FAMILY TREE & WE'LL MEET AGAIN SERVICE > http://freespace.virgin.net/tree.tops > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 21/08/2002

Hi All....... Just wanted to give you my new email address. The old one is still on here to catch any strays, but finally got cable and enjoying it immensely. The speed amazes me!! New address is heatherfig@rogers.com Only 'down' side is trying to remember all the places that my Sprint address is re genealogy......8-(( Cheers......Heather

Can anyone provide me with any information about a family named STARK that ran a fish and chip shop on Buccleuch Street in Barrow in the 1920s? They had a son named Neville and I would really like to know the first name of both parents. Thanks, Roger Park

Peil, Piel ,Peill,Peile BMDs Cockermouth Hope they help some one, I have no connection with this name( well not at the moment) just jot them down when I see them. This is the first instalment, lots of them. 1786 Marriage 23rd November John Peill, Surgeon Sarah Antrobus, Spinster Licence 12th or 22 December 1786 Joseph Harrison, Husbandman Fanny Peill , Spinster Licence 1788 Baptism 3rd January, John son of John Peile and his wife Sarah; born November 1787 1789 Baptism 28th June, Ann dau of John Peile and his wife Sarah; born 15th June 1792 Burial 3rd February Mary wife of Peter Peill; 75 1795 Baptism 30th November, Joseph son of Joseph Peill and his wife Fanny 1813 Baptism 2nd May, Henry so of Benjamin and Elizabeth Peil, Waller, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett 1813 Burial 29th September, John Peil, 54, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett 1814 Baptism 27th March, William son of John and Bridget Peil, Cabinet Maker, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett 1815 Burial 2nd November, Mary Peil, 70, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett 1820 Marriage 27th April John Peil,Butcher Betsy Robinson, her mark Banns published March 26th, April 2nd and 9th Ed Fawcett in the presence of William Wilson 1821Burial 10th April, Mary Peil, 68, Cockermouth, S Sherren off Minister 24th April, Michael Peil, 38, Workington, S Sherren off Minister 17th May, Michael Peil, 61, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett Patricia Clews

The consecrated ground is normally for Church of England burials and the unconsecrated ground for non-conformist religions who consecrate the plot prior to the burial if desired by the particular religion. Cheers Guy Les Morris wrote: > I have recently received details of the whereabouts of my gg grandfathers > grave. The particular section that he is buried in is unconsecrated. I would > be grateful is somebody could please enlighten me as to why the land would > be unconsecrated. > > Thanks > > Les > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.393 / Virus Database: 223 - Release Date: 30/09/2002 > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 -- Wakefield England Have no fear Archive CD Books is here http://www.archivecdbooks.org http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~framland/dh/ Whitefield Transcripts, Etch/ells Transcripts http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells Transcripts, Parish Records, Calendar, Abbreviations, Returns of Owners of Lands etc. etc.

I have recently received details of the whereabouts of my gg grandfathers grave. The particular section that he is buried in is unconsecrated. I would be grateful is somebody could please enlighten me as to why the land would be unconsecrated. Thanks Les --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.393 / Virus Database: 223 - Release Date: 30/09/2002

Dear Mr Todd If you are satisfied that you have the right death certificate for George.why not try searching for the birthdate based on the information from the certificate. In this case from 1881,onwards in the GRO's I always cross check everything and only use the censuses as guidelines till everything agrees. It is quite possible that there have been transcription errors here judging by the difference in birth dates John ----- Original Message ----- From: "H Todd" <bert@todd88.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 7:37 PM Subject: [CUL-COP] Mad I will be soon > Help needed > To my cumbrian friends, trying to find HAUGHIN. > If you look at the 1881 census, you will find just 1 George Haughin in the UK aged 8. > If you look on the 1901 census you will find just 1 George HAUGHIN aged 14 so they are not the same George. > I have a death cert for a George Haughin died aged 75 in 1956, that makes him 20 in 1901 and born in1881. Where do this Georges disappear and and appear from? > From a Lancashire Lad > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

This request is a very long shot indeed. If there is anyone on the list who finds themselves searching through the graveyard at St. Michael's, Arlecdon, I wonder if they would mind keeping an eye out for an ANNE SUMPTON who was probably buried in a SEWELL (her maiden name) grave. She is not in her husband's family grave. She probably died between 1834 and 1844. Best wishes, Tony O'Grady Melbourne.

Les Morris writes: >Can anybody out there point me in the right direction to find >records of the Cleator Moor Cooperative Society? > >I have just discovered that my ggg grandfather Thomas MULLEN was >the Secretary in 1885. <snip> Always worth looking at the National Register of Archives for this sort of thing: http://www.hmc.gov.uk/nra/nra2.htm In this case it has: Cleator Moor Co-operative Society Cleator Moor, Cumberland 1858-1939 : rules, corresp, reports, balance sheets and papers, agreements and corresp with firms Cumbria Record Office and Local Studies Library, Whitehaven Reference : YDB 37 [link to online catalogue] see County Archivist's report 10 March 1975 The 'link to online catalogue' is a link to the A2A database: http://www.pro.gov.uk/catalogues/a2a.htm You may find that you get some specific hits by searching for Mullen on A2A (but I haven't checked this) - limit the online search to the Whitehaven record office. To see the records you need to get to Whitehaven. If you aren't within striking distance you can use the Cumbria Archive Service at: http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/archives/ Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Thank you very much to all those who replied about the First Fryits Office. I should have been more persistent when I googled, I guess...Google has heaps on it if it's spelled correctly! Fascinating. Again, many thanks. Dorothy G New Zealand

Can anybody out there point me in the right direction to find records of the Cleator Moor Cooperative Society? I have just discovered that my ggg grandfather Thomas MULLEN was the Secretary in 1885. Thomas is my brick wall at the moment so you can imagine how excited I was when my great Aunt provided me with this information. Les --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.393 / Virus Database: 223 - Release Date: 30/09/2002