Further to Guy's reply I understand that there are proposals underway to stop you obtaining certificates for other than legal purposes or immediate relatives if these certificates are less than 100 years old! So order certificates now rather than later. Pat in dreary wet Morden Surrey

Hi Everybody, Am I allowed to obtain a copy of a birth certificate of a living person without their knowledge or is this totally taboo? I fear the latter but would like your comments on the matter. Bryan

This was on LANCSGEN list today. Looks as though it's worth another look at 1901 census site if there was anyone you thought should be there but failed to find. Handy that you can look at just the amendments. Keep sending the corrections in folks! Malcolm Borrowdale (Swinton, Lancs.) ----- Original Message ----- From: John Burns <john@johnburns.com> To: <LANCSGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 2:08 AM Subject: [LAN] PRO Website Transcription Amendments > HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ONE AND ALL. > > Just for info. looks like the PRO are taking notice of amendments to > transcription errors made on their website. All of the errors I have > notified them about in last 3-4 months have now been corrected. It would > be worthwhile to us all that if you do notice an error in the > transcription based upon either interpreting the image directly or using > other information you already have (e.g. birth certificates etc) that > you do submit them to the PRO using the relevant (Contact Us) page on > their website: > > http://www.census.pro.gov.uk > > One of my relatives was named ZACK but on the website was transcribed as > ZACK. Sure the image was a bit difficult to read but I quoted the birth > certificate I already had and they have now changed to the correct name. > > A list of amendments already made can be viewed from the webpages > starting at: > http://www.census.pro.gov.uk/changes_index.html > > Rgds John > > Lancashire Surname List at http://lancslist.com > BMD Certificates and Census Request Forums at > http://lancslist.com/forums > Free 1901 England/Wales Census Decoder Software from > http://lancslist.info > MLFHS membership number: 6259 > Old Books Available On CD from http://www.archivecdbooks.org > > ______________________________

Does anyone have an email address for Colchester Essex please? David

where in Colchester Essex!! Patricia ----- Original Message ----- From: David Wylie <julius@tech2u.com.au> To: <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 5:39 AM Subject: [CUL-COP] help > > Does anyone have an email address for Colchester Essex please? > David > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

I love a puzzle such as the one that you presented. I have a few old wills with a very similar hand. This is not the original will, of course, but the copy that is registered -- thus the similarity of handwriting styles. I made out several letters of the surname (including the 'hett' ending) and "End" as the second word in the town name. I then went to www.oldmaps.com and looked up the counties and checked all of the towns in Essex as of the 1860s. I had thought that the word started with a "D" and had a "d" in the middle and an "r" at the end. I saw Duddenhoe End in Crishall Parish, but thought the word too long. The alternative Dudnor or Dudner would fit the letters. I believe it ends "er". Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Tanner" <rtanner@trump.net.au> To: <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 5:13 PM Subject: [CUL-COP] Old Hand Writing > Hello Listers! > > This is not strictly a Cumbria matter, but there seem to be some pretty > expert people on this list, and I'm hoping one of them can help me. It is > genealogy, even if not directly Cumbria! > > Recently I was given a copy of the will of one of my wife's > ancestors. Unfortunately there are two words I can't decipher. Are there > any old hand writing experts out there? (Or should I say, "experts in old > handwriting"?) If so, could you have a look at > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~robtan/will.html > and tell me what you think? > > Thank you in anticipation, > Robert. > > > Robert Tanner In Aus, phone (03) 6231 0794 > PO Box 539 From OS, phone +61 3 6231 0794 > North Hobart > Tasmania 7002 rtanner@trump.net.au > Australia > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~robtan/home.html > > ______________________________

Since my last message I have been able to confirm the IGI reference. I now accept Hanchet(t) as the surname. Would you believe that the place is Duddenhoe End? Thank you Paula Patterson who wrote - "Just south of Elmdon is a hamlet/large farm called Duddenhoe End which shows up in parish records and census returns under many different spellings. One common spelling is Dudnoe/Dudnor End which would fit well with the handwritten entry. Just along the road (a matter of a hundred yards or so) is another hamlet called Wenden Lofts. Census returns usually show both Wenden Lofts and Duddenhoe End as part of Elmdon. Wenden Lofts had a small church called St Dunstans where some B M and D took place but most people seemed to use St Nicholas Church in Elmdon. Duddenhoe End didn't have a church of it's own." ( If you missed my earlier mail, here's what I am talking about - http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~robtan/will.html ) Regards, Robert. Robert Tanner In Aus, phone (03) 6231 0794 PO Box 539 From OS, phone +61 3 6231 0794 North Hobart Tasmania 7002 rtanner@trump.net.au Australia http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~robtan/home.html

WOW! I sent out my old hand writing request to the Cambridge, Carlyle, Copeland, Essex, Hertfordshire, Tasmania, and UK Census Helpers lists at 9:15 am this morning (Eastern Australian Summer Time) and now - 12:15, three hours later - I have 17 replies. What a wonderful bunch you genies are! I will reply to all individually as soon as I can, but in the meantime, thank you all very much! A special thanks to David Hawley who wrote "Don't know if this will help, but a Sarah Greenhill married Samuel Hanchet(t) on 4.11.1799 at Wendon Lofts in Essex (IGI)" Yes David - it certainly does help! I haven't been able to verify this for myself yet as I don't seem to be able to get into IGI search at present. But there have been many suggestions for the place. I am working my way through them. But - please keep sending any thoughts you may have. ( If you missed my earlier mail, here's what I am talking about - http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~robtan/will.html ) Regards, Robert. Robert Tanner In Aus, phone (03) 6231 0794 PO Box 539 From OS, phone +61 3 6231 0794 North Hobart Tasmania 7002 rtanner@trump.net.au Australia http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~robtan/home.html

Hello Listers! This is not strictly a Cumbria matter, but there seem to be some pretty expert people on this list, and I'm hoping one of them can help me. It is genealogy, even if not directly Cumbria! Recently I was given a copy of the will of one of my wife's ancestors. Unfortunately there are two words I can't decipher. Are there any old hand writing experts out there? (Or should I say, "experts in old handwriting"?) If so, could you have a look at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~robtan/will.html and tell me what you think? Thank you in anticipation, Robert. Robert Tanner In Aus, phone (03) 6231 0794 PO Box 539 From OS, phone +61 3 6231 0794 North Hobart Tasmania 7002 rtanner@trump.net.au Australia http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~robtan/home.html

1819 Burial 6th Nov, Pearson Younghusband ?86/16 Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett 1825 Burial 17th Feb., Deborah Younghusband, infant, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett 1826 baptism 5th February, Thomas son of Thomas and Ruth Younghusband, labourer, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett 1826 burial 3rd March, Joyce Younghusband, 89, Cockermouth, Ed Fawcett hope these help some one, i have no conection to the name, just came across them in my research Patricia Clews

To all, Family, friends, coworkers & acquaintances, A very merry holidays and, please, a SAFE and Happy NewYear. David

I just wanted to wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. And may you all break through those brick walls, or find those missing ancestors (from Planet Zarg, as Malcolm says).......in 2003!! It is a beautiful sunny, cold afternoon here in Brampton, Ontario and I just wanted to send my best wishes to all before I jump back into all the preparations for our family dinner tomorrow. And also wanted to say that our best present and dearest wish came true. Our daughter just became 'officially engaged' and we are ecstatic for her. Jim flew for 20 hours from NZ to be with her at Christmas and to make it official with a 'band of gold'. May your Christmas be as happy as ours!! Ron and Heather

Jill Thanks for posting this extract. Do you know the name of Dean Kitchin's father? I ask because I have an ancestor, Rev Thomas Kitchin(g) whose origins are still a mystery to me. Dorothy G New Zealand - An Extract from "The Story of St. Bees" 1583-1939 SCHOOLBOY PARSON In a book by Dean Kitchin entitled "Ruskin in Oxford, and other Studies", occurs the following passage:- "In the beginning of the 19th century, about 1807-1808, the Head Master of the St. Bees Grammar school was also in charge of Haile, a little village in the upper country behind St. Bees. My father was educated under him at the Grammar School, and rose to the head of the top form. Not unfrequently I have heard him tell, the Master would come in on a Saturday, and speaking in his broad Cumbrian would say: 'Laads, I'm let from going up to Haile t'morrow,' and then turning to the two head boys he would add: 'and so you, Kitchin, and you, ---------, will go up for me to-morrow, and here is t' prayer book for Kitchin and t' sermon for you, --------, and mind ye dinna laff.' And the two boys went off gleefully, and took duty again and again. I believe it set my father thinking about Orders, for he went that way as soon as he could, and after a few years began clerical life as Curate at this very Church of Haile at which he had sometimes officiated as a schoolboy." Jill ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Dear Dorothy, Unfortunately the only two Kitchins mentioned in the Famous Old Boys, Finlay Lorimer and Charles, attended in the 1880s and so are much too recent to be attached to this story. Tantalisingly, the extract gives no further details of Dean Kitchin or his father but it would be interesting to know who they were. Perhaps somebody has access to the Haile registers which might contain the name of the curate at that time. Best wishes, Jill > Do you know the name of Dean Kitchin's father? I ask because I have an ancestor, Rev Thomas Kitchin(g) whose origins are still a mystery to me. > > Dorothy G > New Zealand>

An Extract from "The Story of St. Bees" 1583-1939 SCHOOLBOY PARSON In a book by Dean Kitchin entitled "Ruskin in Oxford, and other Studies", occurs the following passage:- "In the beginning of the 19th century, about 1807-1808, the Head Master of the St. Bees Grammar school was also in charge of Haile, a little village in the upper country behind St. Bees. My father was educated under him at the Grammar School, and rose to the head of the top form. Not unfrequently I have heard him tell, the Master would come in on a Saturday, and speaking in his broad Cumbrian would say: 'Laads, I'm let from going up to Haile t'morrow,' and then turning to the two head boys he would add: 'and so you, Kitchin, and you, ---------, will go up for me to-morrow, and here is t' prayer book for Kitchin and t' sermon for you, --------, and mind ye dinna laff.' And the two boys went off gleefully, and took duty again and again. I believe it set my father thinking about Orders, for he went that way as soon as he could, and after a few years began clerical life as Curate at this very Church of Haile at which he had sometimes officiated as a schoolboy." Jill

Thanks Chris for this site. There is a stained glass window in the library of Queen's College, I believe, to the memory of Revd. Dr. John Fox (1774-1855) who was Provost from 1827 until his death in 1855. Dr. Fox was the son of Henry Fox, a Yeoman Farmer of St. Bees, and his wife Catherine (Robinson) . Although several of the family were at Queen's "The Provost" was naturally the prized luminary. He is commemorated at Pamber End, Berkshire where he is buried and notably in St. Bees Church, together with numerous other monuments to the Fox family who have had continuous occupation of High House farm in the parish since the 1500s at least. Dr. Fox had been educated, naturally, at St. Bees School and Queen's College. He returned to his native village on several occasions, one being in 1827 when he married his niece Catherine to Alexander Coulthard in the parish church. He is included in the section "Some Famous Old St. Beghians" in the book entitled "The Story of St. Bees" (school) 1583-1939. This section includes Edward Christian (born 1758), son of Charles Christian of Ewanrigg, Dearham and brother of Fletcher Christian (born 1764) of "Bounty Mutiny" fame. Edward entered St. John's, Cambridge gaining his BA in 1779 and MA in 1782 and became a Fellow, Professor of Law 1788. He was the first Downing Professor of Law in 1800. Fletcher himself does not feature in the book and I understand that, despite some assertions, there is no proof he ever attended the school, the only likelihood being in his brother's known attendance. I stand corrected if anyone knows better from admission registers or other evidence. It appears to be assumed that he did. There are about 110 brief biographical details of notable Old Boys and if anyone has cause to believe a relative might be amongst them I am very willing to look it up. They range through churchmen, military, artists, doctors, authors, colonial adminstrators and the like. Queen's College graduates provided the Headmasters for St. Bees School at least from 1630 - 1916 with two exceptions. Jonathan Banks, B.A., Pembroke College, Cambridge 1681-1686 and Rev. William Taylor Newbold, M.A. St. John's College, Cambridge 1879-1903. It is quite likely though that they also had local connections. The book also contains a long Roll of Honour of 184 Old St. Beghians, including four masters, who gave their lives in the Great War 1914-1918. The book was published at the eve of the Second World War to coincide with the 350th Anniversary of the opening of the school. It then cost five shillings. I will append an interesting extract from the book as a separate post. Jill Coulthard

Hi All Thanks to every one that helped with me search for James Haughin, It seems that on the 1881 census, it was spelt wrong. But if any one can add to the Haughin family it would be welcome. Also thanks to everyone that sent in information on the merchant navy, The tale behind this is that James Haughin to ill in the 1800s on board ship and was buried at sea. Can this be confirmed in any way ? Thanks again Bert --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 17/12/2002

As some of you will be aware, Queen's College Oxford has very strong Cumbrian connections - especially Copeland. Bright Cumbrians were quite likely to find fame and fortune through St Bees, Westminster or Winchester, and Queen's. I've just come across this page, which may be of interest to you. http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1AC256D2 or http://www.gslis.utexas.edu/~landc/bookplates/23_3_QueensCollege. htm Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Hi Bert, I think what you are referring to is Lloyd's Captain's Register, held at the Guildhall Library in the City of London. This lists holders of Foreign-Trade Master's Certificates and covers the period 1851+ and includes not only Captains but those who only served thereafter as Mates on British vessels. For details of others who might have sailed in other capacities in the British Merchant Navy, the below website might be useful http://www.ihrinfo.ac.uk/gh/capreg.htm Hope this helps, Jill > looking for the record of someone who sailed in the merchant navy around 1880's > I have been told that a Guild Hall in Windsor, may have the records. Does anyone have more information > Bert>

Stamper's of Cockermouth 1827 marriage 25th June William Stamper: Brazier Mary Grave: Spinster Banns June 10th, 17th, 24th Edward Fawcett in the presence of William Stamper Jonathon Musgrave 1828 Baptism 5th April, Reuben son of William and Mary Stamper, Brazier, Cockermouth, Edward Fawcett 1829 Burial 6th June, John Stamper, 65, Cockermouth, Edward Fawcett 1830 Burial 14th march, Elizabeth Stamper, 49, Cockermouth, Edward Fawcett 1831 Marriage 14th June William Stamper: Brazier Mary Ann Stamper Licence Edward Fawcett in the presence of John Banks Mary Stamper Hope these help some one, i have no connection with this name. Patricia Clews