Very many thanks to Ernie Shield for doing me two lookups so promptly and so willingly. Jennifer from Leeds.

When looking through the 1851 census books in George Street, Whitehaven I came across the following. No. 67. Edward France, Master Mariner, wife and two children No. 67 and a half. Aquilla Keene, Minister of Whitehaven Methodist Chapel and Lady of Fortune Chapel, wife, two children and servant No. 67 and three-quarters. John Kitchen, Corn Factor, wife, three children and servant Now if these three families were occupying separate floors in a Georgian town house, why not conventionally label them 67, 67a and 67b? What happened to 67 and a quarter? Did Edward France and family occupy two floors? These were obviously people of some substance and not poor families crammed into a hovel. Presumably they were leasehold or rented properties. In Scotch Street at No. 87 were separate families living in Nos. 87, 87a, 87b and two different households in 87 and a half. All around were other families living one to a house though two elderly ladies were occupying a cellar or part of one each. Presumably nowadays these would be more kindly termed basement flats. Since this area of Whitehaven was a planned town, presumably a set amount of frontage and land was allocated to each building plot. As one cannot see through to the rear from the street I wonder if extensions and annexes were allowed to be built on at the rear and if so in what era. This might account for some of the multiple occupancies as well as the division of the principal rooms. Jill

Dear Jennifer, I have looked through the index of the four Whitehaven 1851 census books published by Cumbria FHS plus the adjacent Hensingham and Preston Quarter. There were very few Coopers and the only Robert I could find was living in Kelsick Lane, Whitehaven ROBERT COOPER, Head, Married, 48, Labourer, born Maryport SARAH COOPER, Wife, Married, 49, born Maryport JOHN COOPER, Son, 13, Scholar I presume this relates to the family who according to IGI had the following children baptised at Maryport of Robert and Sarah JANE 26 July 1829 SARAH 28 Aug 1831 ANN 4 Jan 1835 JOHN 22 April 1838 A SARAH COOPER died in Q3 1851 in Whitehaven Registration District according to Free BMD. There is no indication as to her age. I note, however, also from IGI that a ROBERT and ISABELLA COOPER had a son Samuel baptised 24 March 1850 at Whitehaven Holy Trinity. This appears to rule out a second marriage for the Robert above unless the baptism date has been wrongly recorded on IGI (as has been known). At 73 George Street in 1851 was living JAMES CALLANDER aged 50, Bookseller, born Dumfries with his wife and servant. This may not help in a positive fashion but at least gives the position in 1851. Regards, Jill > Is there SKS with the 1851 census for Whitehaven who could do me a lookup, please? ROBERT COOPER and wife ISABELLA. Afraid I don't know their dob. In 1856 they were living at 73 George Street, though that may not hold good for 1851, of course.> > Thanks in anticipation, > Jennifer from Leeds.>

Hi Jill Crockford's was first published in 1858 and at intervals ever since. Now it is published by the Church Commissioners and the Central Board of Finance of the Church of England. The directory lists all clergy who hold current appointments in the Church or who have retired recently from them. it also includes an index of churches and other places of worhip in the C of E with the benefice to which they relate and an index to benefices in Eng, Wales, and Ireland together with Scottish incumbencies and their assistant clergy. Before 1982 it was a directory of all the clergy of the Anglican Communion with the exception of the episcopal church in the USA. (From 'The Dictionary of Genealogy', Terrick Fitzhugh) This is probably more than you wanted to know, Jill, but I thought others on the list might be interested in the detail. :-) Dorothy G New Zealand - rom: John & Jill Coulthard [mailto:jjcoulthard@btinternet.com] bject: Re: [CUL-COP] Schoolboy Parson . Does anyone know when Crockford's Clerical Directory began? No doubt copies will be in the Society of Genealogists as well as other reference libraries. These give a potted history of the career of Church of England clergymen and so may provide some answers to the "Kitchen" question.

There has just been an excellent programme on British TV about the activities of the Barbary Pirates in the seventeenth century. Barbary describes the northern coast of Africa from Morocco to Libya and was, in the seventeenth century, famous for its 'pirates'. They were a significant force in the Western Mediterranean - and by the 1630s were active in the English Channel and the coastlines of SW England and southern Ireland. I was already aware of such activity because the Journal of the Cumbrian Quaker, James Dickinson, mentions his ship being chased by 'Turkish pirates' when sailing from Gravesend to Holland in the late seventeenth century; but I hadn't realised that many of the Barbary corsairs were actually Dutch who had settled in N. Africa and converted. Nor had I realised the extent of the white slave trade that was the main incentive for their piracy. The suggestion made in the programme was that about 35000 European white slaves reached the markets of North Africa each year - so the actual numbers taken must have been much greater. If the majority of these came from raids on shipping or on the coastal populations of Italy, Spain, France, Ireland and Britain, then that becomes a significant factor in our genealogical research. How much impact did this have on our Cumbrian ancestors and their families? Presumably at least some Cumbrian mariners ended up as galley slaves; but maybe too some of your female (or male, come to think of it) relatives found themselves in the harems of Morocco and the Ottoman Empire! Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Heather Figueroa wrote: >They were not married, but that was either because of two >reasons......he really was married in England to this >Lady......or the fact that Elizabeth was 'a free woman of >colour'......slavery had not been abolished at that time. >So they could not be married as he was white. There was an interesting article in the June 2000 edition of the 'Genealogist's Magazine' - 'Hidden from history: black people in parish records' - by Kathy Chater. A significant black population in eighteenth century Britain (maybe 20000) doesn't get much of a mention in parish records. Why? The author argued that baptism, marriage and burial happened but ethnic origin simply wasn't considered significant enough to mention (unless there were poor law issues involved). The author suggested that some things point towards non-white ethnic origin - adult baptism, birthplace in a British colony, service (especially with a titled person or officer), absence of a surname, a classical name used as a surname, West African forenames as a surname (Cuffay, Quarshley, Narrangue), and Mungo/Mingo as a surname. Kathy Chater is (or at least was) collecting all reference to resident black people pre-1900. Her address is in the magazine and I can supply it if you want to write to her. Considering the number of Cumbrians with connections in eighteenth century America, I would think it likely that Cumberland had a resident black population, even if only a small one. Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

An online clerical database should become available before too long. A brief description is available at: http://www.personal.rdg.ac.uk/~lhstalrs/cced.htm Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Hi Chris..... Interesting and I would like to write this woman. As the West Indies, and Jamaica in particular, was largely populated by the English, it is quite likely that 'servants' were brought back on their return trips. And you just mentioned pirates...I was in Henry Morgan's quarters many years ago in Kingston. I don't think he was terribly 'couth'. He used the silver chalice and communion plate from the nearby church for his dinnerware. The British Governor on the Island made him the Commander of the Militia and he was eventually knighted in England. He already was an English Vice-Admiral of a Fleet of 15 ships. Not bad for the most bloodthirsty pirate of his time. Jamaican research is a genealogist's dream. Same church (C of E), but the detail is wonderful. A marriage in the 1800's for instance, would tell me their ages, their status (spinster, etc), their fathers and whether the fathers were alive or dead, their colour, their occupations, where they lived until day of marriage and more......... So when I started in on the English records, I was frankly disappointed in the paucity of the records. For John Bowness' burial in 1787, all I got was a name and date.....no wonder Dad missed it......no next of kin......nothing. But that's life. I have seen the odd person of colour identified in the Whitehaven records......but not often. There are about 10 levels of colour in the West Indies, but the earlier Spanish had 156!!! So it is quite a help when you are pretty sure that you are looking for someone who is white.....not many on a page. There are a couple of areas in Jamaica (Trelawny and Port Royal) where the British military had garrisons and I have found MI inscriptions there for a few from Cumberland and northern areas of England.. Slavery was officially abolished in Jamaica in 1834 and the 'slaves' immediately became 'apprentices'. But I have found a large number of 'free people of colour' back in the 1700's and the reasons are varied Slaves usually had no last names in the 1700's. I saw Slave Journals in glass cases, in a place called Devon House in Kingston, Jamaica about 25 years ago and was utterly fascinated. Like "Ole Tom"......had a bad leg.....gave his age and what was paid for him. These are just ordinary ledger books........remember, slaves were chattels. They were willed to family members as well as sold. Not pretty, but it is the way it was. These plantation owners had to be very wealthy.....slaves were often 500 to 1500 British pounds each. But they are no longer to be found......seems they 'disappeared' from Devon House and I have my suspicions who took them. All the staff looked horrified when I asked about the 10 years ago and denied they existed.....but, dammit, they did!! They were an invaluable record for these poor slaves. They often gave their tribe or African name. > The author suggested that some things point towards non-white > ethnic origin - adult baptism, birthplace in a British colony, > service (especially with a titled person or officer), absence of > a surname, a classical name used as a surname, West African > forenames as a surname (Cuffay, Quarshley, Narrangue), and > Mungo/Mingo as a surname. Yes.....all of the above are indications of slavery (which was not legal in Cumberland at that time, I believe). It certainly wasn't in France. Oh.....and Mungo is one surname that someone is searching for on the Carib List at the moment. I was typing the history of Jamaica from the day Columbus discovered it (1493) and I do have it here on my hard drive.....fascinating. And the English were a bloodthirsty lot....grin. The most bloody slaughters of say, the Spanish......or people from Hispaniola (Haiti and Dominican Republic). But that was life in those days. Considering the length of time it must have taken to sail from England to the West Indies, I was astounded at the politics and the constant exile of Brits from Jamaica. Sent back to England on trumped up charges by their Governor or Commanding Officer. Venables and Penn were two of the top men. > > Considering the number of Cumbrians with connections in > eighteenth century America, I would think it likely that > Cumberland had a resident black population, even if only a small > one. I would bet that there were more 'blacks' there than you realize. Look at Sally Heming (slave/concubine of Thomas Jefferson)......she was light skinned. Her son passed for white. And I have found Jamaican ancestors for Cumberland people and they always thought that it was perhaps Spanish or Italian blood. Not so. Very few took their wives out to the tropics.......too darn hot. And I will leave the rest to your imagination......grin. Sorry to go on so long.......but it is so interesting to learn all this Island history and see it tie back to Cumberland and surrounding areas...... Many of them probably came out from Whitehaven.......I should imagine. Plus they also went to Barbados and several other islands. Mostly English names in those places. Cheers.......Heather Researching BOWNESS & ALLANBY

Hello all, I love to help and monitor boards to answer questions. Recently helped someone on the Boulder County, Colorado board and they said they lived in Boulder and if I needed anything feel free to ask. I answered "Thank you but I have all my Boulder research done." Both lists may feel free to email me and call me STUPID and/or ARROGANT (or anything else but please don't question my parents marital status). Not long after that, I bumped into a connection that has opened multiple doors. Only problem is we can't connect it all. She has many (30 or more) old photos that are family. I can positively identify 4 as my line with ties to the Carltons of Cumberland ; in fact 2 could only be through the Carltons. I believe because of these all the others must be related to the Carltons (Sarah Isabella (Carlton) Birkett seems to be the focal point of it all). I can make a very strong (but circumstantial) case for the rest being Carltons, Birketts, Irvings and others from Cumberland. Steve Bulman has very graciously agreed to post them on his site - ( http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/ ) and I would greatly appreciate if you all would review them to see if you recognize a face. I just tonight sent him the first set so it will be a while before they are posted. But if I may recommend, go there now anyway - great site ! Especially for those of us who have never "been back" home to Cumberland - breathtaking photos of a beautiful place. David

Hello Dorothy, Thanks for this. It is good to have the full description of what Crockford's Directory contains. Strangely enough I was reading another FHS Journal this evening when lo and behold one of the pieces of information given was that Crockford's began in 1858. I was about to come in and say this to the List when I received your much more informative piece. It is a very useful aid to those with clerical relatives in that it often details moves to a completely different area of the country and also, I believe, says where their ordinations took place. As you can gather, it is some years since I last consulted one so my recollection is rather hazy. >From its information, however, I have obtained ordination papers from the relevant Record Offices which give added detail. Like you, I hope this information will be of interest to others on the List. Does anyone know of any similar directories which could be used to find others whose profession found them frequently on the move? Another resource I have found useful is apprenticeship indentures, where these still exist. They give the name of the parent or sponsor and also the trade. I once found this invaluable in sorting out two similarly named and aged cousins as they followed their respective professions. Jill

For those interested in Pubs and Inns I see there is a message board on the National Pub and Brewery History Website www.btinternet.com/~steven.williams1/pubgintro A message last year mentions a collection of photos of pub signs some of which are Cumbrian. Regards, Sue.

This is about as 'far out' as one could get in genealogy, grin.......but I have a brick wall in Jamaica with an Englishman by name of "Wilkin COOPER".......who was allegedly married to a Lady Usherwood or Isherwood......according to Grandmother Cooper. And so far, her handwritten notes back to the early 1800's have been 100% right!!!! Wilkin had 5 children with an Elizabeth Evans and the name Evans was carried on down. However the names WILKIN & WILLIAM were always carried down into each generation. But I do realize how common William Cooper is. (G) They were not married, but that was either because of two reasons......he really was married in England to this Lady......or the fact that Elizabeth was 'a free woman of colour'......slavery had not been abolished at that time. So they could not be married as he was white. This was the early 1800's in Trelawney, Jamaica and Wilkin Cooper was a planter, a soldier and eventually a Coroner (but no medical background). I believe Coroner was purely a political 'award'. He was modestly well to do....but at a guess, was probably a second son. I got a lead from the CUL group once before and this kind soul found a Wilkins (note 'S') Cooper in Lincolnshire, but he was one generation back of my Wilkin (who was born 1877/78)......so you can see why the date rang a bell. To flip this around....could this Wilkins Cooper that I found tie into your family? He was from Halton Holgate in Lincoln. I have absolutely exhausted all avenues. Lady Usherwood, if she existed, would not be the name under which she was baptized.....and the IGI has not found me a Wilkin Cooper in England or Scotland. Grandma said they were from Dover......but they probably sailed from there. And that one is even harder than my mysterious John Bowness!! Cheers.....Heather Researching BOWNESS & ALLANBY in Cumberland. And FIGUEROA, COOPER & RITCHIE in Jamaica. > She married William Cooper in 1878 in the Primitive Methodist > Chapel in Whitehaven. The marriage certificate states her father was > deceased. > > Any help most appreciated. > > Jennifer from snowy Leeds. >

Dear Mel, Many thanks for this. However, I think what was discussed may have been a bit misleading. I was telling Dorothy that the only Kitchens mentioned in the book were in the 1880s and therefore much too late to be attached to this tale. The story relates to the years about 1807-1808 when from the book the Headmaster of St. Bees/Vicar of Haile would have been Rev. John Barnes (Headmaster 1791-1811) or even possibly Rev. William Wilson (1811-1816). If the future curate "Kitchen" was at that time in the upper class of the school then one would presume that after a university education his reported curacy would have been about 1812 onwards. One of our relatives Rev. John Fox was Headmaster of St. Bees from 1830-1841 and also through that office Vicar of Haile. He was a nephew of Rev. John Fox, Provost of Queen's College, Oxford. My husband's great-grandparents Robert Coulthard (nephew of the Headmaster and great-nephew of the Provost) and his wife Annie (Brocklebank) had all their eight children baptised at Haile, even after they moved to Egremont and it was said by one of the family that all were held by the same local old lady for good luck. During this period Rev. Robert Coulthard of Sulhamstead, Berks (another Cumbrian graduate and Fellow of Queen's) said that he baptised his namesake, their second child Robert, at Haile on 8 October 1863. However, I believe it was the then Vicar who signed the register for this event. Regarding Haile being too small to have a curate, I suppose you are right unless the then Incumbent paid for one. I am just reporting the story as told in the book. Rev. Robert kept a diary of his life in Berkshire and visits to and from his Cumrian relations as well as some letters. He had about three parishes to look after but refused to employ a curate until the very last months/weeks of his life after his relatives begged him to get one and take life a little easier. He bowed to their pressure but continued with his "duty" up until the end, even after collapsing in church to the concern and consternation of his parishioners. Does anyone know when Crockford's Clerical Directory began? No doubt copies will be in the Society of Genealogists as well as other reference libraries. These give a potted history of the career of Church of England clergymen and so may provide some answers to the "Kitchen" question. Jill >Subject: Re: [CUL-COP] Schoolboy Parson> > I have checked out the entries the Haile Registers in the 1880s and all, with the exception of a couple, have been signed either by the Vicar of Haile or by other local vicars (such as the Vicar of Beckermet). The odd ones out were signed by a Samuel Barber in 1883 and he does not qualify his name with a title. I rather suspect Haile was too small a parish to have a curate. > > Mel>

My thanks, Mel for the interesting explanation. And I would like to also thank those that wrote me at home.....explaining where this was. It is so hard to visualize a town you have never seen......(G) Heather > Hi Heather, > The Ginns is a district on the south side of Whitehaven. There were at > least three potteries there and also a copperas works. It was the site > of some of the earliest coal mining activity in the Whitehaven area. I > takes its name from the water ginn that Sir John Lowther established > circa 1663 to convey water from the Bannock coal seam into Pow Beck. > The "Newhouses" built by the Earl of Lonsdale to house his miners stood > on the high ground above the Ginns. > > Mel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Figueroa" <heatherfig@rogers.com> > To: <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:07 AM > Subject: [CUL-COP] 'Nuggets' from Whitehaven > > > cut.............. > > > > Where is 'Ginns'? It > > was the 'abode' of Thomas Bowness and wife Mary. > cut........... > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

I have checked out the entries the Haile Registers in the 1880s and all, with the exception of a couple, have been signed either by the Vicar of Haile or by other local vicars (such as the Vicar of Beckermet). The odd ones out were signed by a Samuel Barber in 1883 and he does not qualify his name with a title. I rather suspect Haile was too small a parish to have a curate. Mel ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Jill Coulthard" <jjcoulthard@btinternet.com> To: <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [CUL-COP] Schoolboy Parson > Dear Dorothy, > > Unfortunately the only two Kitchins mentioned in the Famous Old Boys, Finlay > Lorimer and Charles, attended in the 1880s and so are much too recent to be > attached to this story. Tantalisingly, the extract gives no further > details of Dean Kitchin or his father but it would be interesting to know > who they were. Perhaps somebody has access to the Haile registers which > might contain the name of the curate at that time. > > Best wishes, > > Jill > > Do you know the name of Dean Kitchin's father? I ask because I have an > ancestor, Rev Thomas Kitchin(g) whose origins are still a mystery to me. > > > > Dorothy G > > New Zealand> > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Hi Heather, The Ginns is a district on the south side of Whitehaven. There were at least three potteries there and also a copperas works. It was the site of some of the earliest coal mining activity in the Whitehaven area. I takes its name from the water ginn that Sir John Lowther established circa 1663 to convey water from the Bannock coal seam into Pow Beck. The "Newhouses" built by the Earl of Lonsdale to house his miners stood on the high ground above the Ginns. Mel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Figueroa" <heatherfig@rogers.com> To: <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:07 AM Subject: [CUL-COP] 'Nuggets' from Whitehaven cut.............. > > Where is 'Ginns'? It > was the 'abode' of Thomas Bowness and wife Mary. cut...........

Hi everyone, Is there SKS with the 1851 census for Whitehaven who could do me a lookup, please? ROBERT COOPER and wife ISABELLA. Afraid I don't know their dob. In 1856 they were living at 73 George Street, though that may not hold good for 1851, of course. Thanks in anticipation, Jennifer from Leeds.

Hi All..... I was over at the FHC today, trying to get my head back into parish records after the Xmas break. As usual, didn't find much for myself, but got a few names I recognized for these Lists. No particular order, and they are all (but one) from LDS film #90678, Holy Trinity Chapel BT's 1. 11 Feb 1719 - Jonathan TIFFIN of Innerdale, yeoman, married Abigail DICKINSON, spinster. 2. 31 Oct 1791 - Samuel BROWNRIGG, yeoman, married Jane WILSON, spinster, both of Whitehaven. 3. 17 May 1807 - baptism of James, son of Charles and Ann DICKINSON (born April 15th) In the St. James film #90680, burial of Sarah, wife of John TWENTYMAN, 4 March 1802. I did find 4 Bownesses......but had 3 of them. Where is 'Ginns'? It was the 'abode' of Thomas Bowness and wife Mary. Hope these help someone.......Heather.

The PRO has a useful online database called E179. http://www.pro.gov.uk/catalogues/e179.htm and http://www.records.pro.gov.uk/e179/search_new.asp " The database provides detailed information about over 25,000 documents in the E 179 series, including the date and function of each document, the tax to which it relates, and the names of the places used as headings within it. It does not include the names of individual taxpayers, but can be used to locate those documents in which lists of individual taxpayers appear. " If you type in a Cumberland placename, you'll get a comprehensive list of all relevant tax records. If you click each record, you'll also get a detailed description of what it is, its condition, and a very few names. You can, of course, order copies of any of these records. Apparently, the project has been part funded by the Cumberland and Westmorland Antiquarian and Archaeological Society! Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

re information from Chris on the above Thanks, this establishes a relationship between the Patrickson and Ponsonby families although the places are not the same as on the children's bond. I have William Patrickson of Great Longthwaite [hard to read but I think this is correct] parish of Millom and John Ponsonby younger? of Kirksanton, same parish and county, yeoman. I note there are no Askews in the information you posted so I still cannot establish a relationship between the Ponsonbys/Patricksons with my Askews. I note the surname Braithwaite. On many IGI entries I have noted the source as Hannah A Braithwaite. There is a whole film of entries on Askews submitted by her but they relate back to the 1930s so there is no point in following these up. Ivan