Hi, Patricia > Could someone tell me what a Post boy was I may be quite wrong, but the only definition I have come across is that of the chap who sat guard on the mail coach (often not a "boy" at all, and quite a responsible job) . Several are mentioned in Tom Bradley's book "The Old Coaching Days in Yorkshire" who worked on the mail coaches until quite an advanced age, or until the system was superseded by the advent of the railways. Sometimes the job seems to have been handed down from father to son, and postboy were employed by the post houses (inns) along the route of the mail coach. However, I stand to be corrected! Best wishes, Roz

I wrote: >guess that family and estate papers would have survived >and could give you quite a lot of info. Check the National >Register of Archives at: I've now checked. Yes, the papers do survive: GB/NNAF/F6148 Browne family, Tallentire estate 1662-1912 : deeds 1662-1895, estate papers 1662-1912, family papers 1807-1908, legal papers 1792-1840 Cumbria Record Office and Local Studies Library, Whitehaven Reference : D/WM NRA 23770 Waugh & Musgrave If you are in London, you should also be able to consult the archive catalogue at the Public Search Room in Chancery Lane. Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

I wrote: >But to do this generation after generation? Oops! I'm completely wrong. Guy Etchells has enlightened me about the meaning of 'from time to time' and will, I hope, post in due course. I like to demonstrate my fallibility from time to time :-) Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

I have now received the will of William Dickinson died 1832 at Rothersyke. Listers may recall that he was unmarried and his nephew Joseph took over the farm. I will post more details when I return from a week's holiday. William left the freehold of the farm to his brother Joseph who lived in the Isle of Man and was father of the Joseph who came and farmed it. However, amongst his bequests he leaves his brother Richard and sister Mary Dixon £450 each. His nephew John Moor and niece Mary (Moor) wife of Robert Fleming each £150. To his nephew William Moor however he leaves £100 when he reaches the age of 55. When William died, Mary Dixon was aged 39 and John Moor 33 and they had their inheritances straight away. William Moor was aged 30 and so had to wait another 25 years to receive his. Any precedence for the age 55 or can anyone shed any light on this? Did the two William's have a bet as to how long William Moor would live? William Dickinson was aged 66 when he died so it cannot have been a case of WM only inheriting him when he managed to survive more years. If William Moor was considered irresponsible at age 30 would he be any better equipped to inherit £100 in 25 years time? I would be interested in any suggestions. Jill Coulthard

Hi All this site may be useful for anyone trying to trace family who have been in the war pension schemes and veterans. Or if you are trying to find which regiment they belong to. Pam xx

Can anybody tell me about Black Ling on the (has i know it, probably a different name) Shore road, Egremont. On the 1881 census just one dwelling, but the Row of cottages I am interested in, I take it they where farm cottages! Always used to call in there on our way to the Shore to see a friend of the family, my Aunt lived there during the 1940's then my Uncle in the 1950's Patricia Clews

Could someone tell me what a Post boy was, I think it has something to do with the weaving trade and not someone who delivers mail. Also has any body done any research into the weaving trade in Cockermouth I know they had a Flax mill, but is there anywhere I can find out about it!! Just want to say also, how much I am enjoying all the resent discussions on the Churches etc in Whitehaven Thank you Patricia Clews BROCKLEBANK/BROCKBANK, MURPHY (Not the shipping family)

I have obtained several family trees for the family of Dr Adam Askew b1696 of Newcastle. Adam's father, Dr Anthony Askew b1680, was a second son of John Askew but I have not been able to find the name of the first son or any other siblings. Can anyone provide this information? Ivan Gregory

Heather, I read it more as if it was to look after his unmarried daughters and presumably as each was married her husband would take care of her and father's goods including that silver ticket for the theatre would go to provide for the remaining unmarried daughters etc. presumably until they all had husbands or one or some were left without. I would be interested to hear any other interpretations. Jill >Heather wrote> > Being a long time 'typer' of Wills, I find this one interesting in that the girls could only inherit if they were unmarried......brings up a whole lot of questions........then it passes to their children, so long as they do not marry......hmmmm. And Dad didn't specify why??>

Letter to the Rev. Robert Coulthard at Sulhamstead Rectory, Reading, Berks, Executor of the late Miss Ann Bell of Whitehaven from James Bell of Whitehaven (her nephew) dated 20 September 1850. "Dear Sir, The repairs of Mr. Lamin's House being now compleated, I have on the otherside given a list of the Workmen with the amount of their Bills £23.0.8 for which sum have the goodness to send me a Check on the Bank, for I find that the money is wanted. I believe Mr. Lamin has no Lease would it not be better to have one made out, and get him to sign it. I think he would have no objection now that the House is put into good repair. I have not been able to either let or sell the Seat in Church, nor even to get any person to take it for the dues. I have received Interest from Mr. Barker for the Slaughter House 10/- which being deducted from the above sum will make the Amount due me £22.10.8. The Bills I shall send you after I get them paid. I have inquiry of Messrs. Armistead and Brockbank respecting the insurance from fire, but they say that they have no Orders to that effect, nor do they know that it was Insured but it certainly should be done and if you will say what sum should be put upon it, I will get it insured. ......................" The Bills included 3/- (three shillings) for painting the Headstone and 3/- (three shillings) dues on Seat in St. James Church. Miss Ann Bell was also a cousin of the Executor and daughter of Captain Isaac Bell a Whitehaven shipowner and master mariner. Miss Bell lived at 43 Duke Street and owned considerable property at her death which she put into Trust for her nieces and nephew much to the chagrin of their father (her brother Abraham) who had hoped to inherit the capital but was only left a life interest. She was buried at St. James with other members of her family. I do not know at present where Mr. Lamin's house was but no doubt he was on the 1851 census if he took on the Lease. Later information states that Mr. Lamin agreed to a Lease for Seven Years but would not pay any part of the expenses. Messrs. Armistead & Brockbank drew up the Lease and attended to other legal matters. Their bill when presented included answering certain enquiries made by Mr. A. Bell as to the Estate. This is no doubt a polite way of saying they had brother Abraham constantly on their doorstep trying to change the terms of the will. on 28 May 1853 Abraham Bell wrote to Rev. Robert Coulthard and contained in the letter is "Your letter of the 24th inst. duly received and note your remarks respecting the charges for House and as Regards the Shop he may paint and paper as often as it pleases himself but certainly not at my expense, neither the interior of the House, having an Lease he can keep it in such order as best suits his own taste." "When in Whitehaven I enquired of Lammin respecting the Seat, his being a Churchwarden a short time again and he told my by paying no Rates (last three words underlined) the Churchwardens would take the Pew as a thing in common." I hope this sheds a little more light on the custom of paying for pews in church as well as other things going on in Whitehaven at the time. Jill Coulthard

Roz writes: <snip> >George JAMES, butler at Tallantire Hall from at least 1851-1861 <snip> Can't comment on the questions you asked, but I can throw in a bit of (probably unwanted) Tallantire/Tallentire history. The Hall was originally associated with the Fletcher family, who were very wealthy and powerful in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. It then descended through Ann Fletcher to her husband, Mathew Partis, both of whom were leading members of the Congregational Church of Cockermouth. The Partis family were Newcastle tobacco merchants. In 1776 it was sold to William Browne (died 1802). Presumably your George James would have been butler to William Browne (who died in 1861), and maybe to his son William Browne (died 1894). I would guess that family and estate papers would have survived and could give you quite a lot of info. Check the National Register of Archives at: http://www.hmc.gov.uk/nra/nra2.htm Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

I think you have read that incorrectly Heather rather than it passing to any children it reads that if any of the sisters died her/their share would pass to her/their siblings.. Cheers Guy Heather Figueroa wrote: > Being a long time 'typer' of Wills, I find this one interesting in that > the girls could only inherit if they were unmarried......brings up a > whole lot of questions........then it passes to their children, so long > as they do not marry......hmmmm. And Dad didn't specify why?? > > Heather > > > This is the actual will language that I have been referring to. I > find it interesting for many reasons and I share it without further > comment. > > ...and I give and bequeath all my Household Goods and furniture > Linen China Wines and Spirits books and other utensils and things which > may happen to be in or about my dwellinghouse at the time of my decease > and also my Carriage and such horses as I may possessed of at the time > of my death with all my hay corn and provender for horses saddles > bridles harness and together also with my seat or pew in Saint Nicholas > Chapel in Whitehaven aforesaid and my Mortgage upon a share of the > Whitehaven Theatre with the Silver Ticket attached to it unto such of my > Daughters as may be living unmarried at the time of my decease so long > as they shall respectively remain unmarried and to the survivors or > survivor of such of them as may from time to time continue to > unmarried... > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Melville Cowin" <mel_cowin@btopenworld.com> > > To: "Tim & Una Anderson" <timuna@starpower.net>; > <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 3:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [CUL-COP] Whitehaven Churches: Holy Trinity vs. Saint > Nicholas vs. Saint James > > > > > > > Tim, > > > The old St. Nicholas' church built in 1693 was enlarged in 1745-6 by > two > > > wings - the south, used later as a choir vestry, the north as a > > SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > The Old Theatre Royal, Whitehaven was in Roper Street and dates back > to > > > 1769. It was closed in the 1930s and demolished in the 1960's. > > SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 -- Wakefield England I use Archive CD Books in my research http://www.archivecdbooks.org http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~framland/dh/ Whitefield Transcripts, Etch/ells Transcripts http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells Transcripts, Parish Records, Calendar, Abbreviations, Returns of Owners of Lands etc. etc.

In 1708 Dr Roger ASKEW married Bridget HUDLESTON, daughter of Andrew Hudleston of Hutton John. There appears to be a possibility that this couple had an earlier marriage in Dublin, Ireland in 1700. I have been trying to decide why this should have happened and it occurs to me that the Hudlestons may have been Catholics at that time and perhaps the earlier marriage was not in a Catholic church and the Hudleston family insisted on a second marriage acceptable to the family. I will apply for the films to check this out. While I am waiting, does anyone know if the Hutton John Hudlestons were Catholics? I note in a Cumbrian Genealogy list which I found on the internet, that the Hudlestons were excommunicated several times in the early 17th century for contumacie. Anyone able to provide additional information? Ivan Gregory

Roz writes: >> the survivors or survivor of such of them as may from time to >>time continue to unmarried... >Surely this means that the pews etc. are left to whichever >daughter or daughters survive longest. Ah yes. you could well be right. I was reading 'survivor', without thinking, as meaning progeny - otherwise what does 'from time to time' have to do with it? Probably, anyway, the estate got consumed in fees as the lawyers argued! :-) Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Tim Anderson quotes : >...and I give and bequeath all my Household Goods ... and also >my Carriage ... also with my seat or pew in Saint Nicholas >Chapel in Whitehaven aforesaid and my Mortgage upon a >share of the Whitehaven Theatre with the Silver Ticket >attached to it unto such of my Daughters as may be living >unmarried at the time of my decease so long as they shall >respectively remain unmarried and to the survivors or survivor >of such of them as may from time to time continue to unmarried... Very interesting. I don't think I've seen anything quite like it before. I understand the principle of giving the ice on the cake to the unmarried daughters. After all, the married ones have probably already had their 'dowry' and are now tied to the financial fortunes of their husbands. What you now want is to marry off the younger ones; and how better than to show them off in a carriage, a pew and a theatre box? But to do this generation after generation? That seems excessively thoughtful and not very practical. It would surely require some sort of Trustee arrangement? Unless ... hmm ... could it be that he had some specific grandchildren in mind? Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Hopefully one of them left a Will passing on the family pew to their nieces or nephews.....grin. Guess he didn't think that far ahead. Now, if he had had a female lawyer..........LOL!! Ducking for cover!! Heather > Heather, > > > the survivors or survivor of such of them as may from time to time continue > > to unmarried... > > > Surely this means that the pews etc. are left to whichever daughter or > daughters survive longest. What Dad doesn't say is what happens to this > bequest if/when all his unmarried daughters have either married or died! > > Roz > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Sorry people.......of course you are right. I had a nasty migraine and was thinking 'issue' of the daughters.......which didn't exactly make sense, but then figured that Dad thought if they got married, then the contents of the Will passed to their unmarried daughters.......duh!! But believe me, stranger things have happened. But.......it is interesting to note that he was looking out for the daughters as we do in these modern times. I have it in my Will that everything goes to our daughter, after Ron........but that it cannot be touched by any spouse or common-law partner of hers.......on the off chance that she got divorced and the ex-husband went after her inheritance. I would suspect that Tim's Thomas in the Will was either a bit of a black sheep or perhaps not entirely capable of handling a lot of money......but in that case, there would have been a Trustee to dole out the money as he saw fit. Often the Wills that we got a giggle out of were the ones where Dad disliked his wife or one of his offspring enough that he would leave them a dollar (shilling)......and all sorts of crazy things......TV isn't half as funny as real life <bg> Even my Dad had an 'odd' clause in his Will that kind of blew us away......hadn't seen one like that for a long time and had a devil of a time explaining it to my sister. And that one is a family secret (grin). So, my apologies......I hereby doth swear that I shall not reply to any questions when I have a migraine headache, lol. Heather > I think you have read that incorrectly Heather rather than it passing to any > children it reads that if any of the sisters died her/their share would pass to > her/their siblings.. > Cheers > Guy > > Heather Figueroa wrote: > > > Being a long time 'typer' of Wills, I find this one interesting in that > > the girls could only inherit if they were unmarried......brings up a > > whole lot of questions........then it passes to their children, so long > > as they do not marry......hmmmm. And Dad didn't specify why?? > > > > Heather > > > > > This is the actual will language that I have been referring to. I > > find it interesting for many reasons and I share it without further > > comment. > > > ...and I give and bequeath all my Household Goods and furniture > > Linen China Wines and Spirits books and other utensils and things which > > may happen to be in or about my dwellinghouse at the time of my decease > > and also my Carriage and such horses as I may possessed of at the time > > of my death with all my hay corn and provender for horses saddles > > bridles harness and together also with my seat or pew in Saint Nicholas > > Chapel in Whitehaven aforesaid and my Mortgage upon a share of the > > Whitehaven Theatre with the Silver Ticket attached to it unto such of my > > Daughters as may be living unmarried at the time of my decease so long > > as they shall respectively remain unmarried and to the survivors or > > survivor of such of them as may from time to time continue to > > unmarried... > > > Tim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Melville Cowin" <mel_cowin@btopenworld.com> > > > To: "Tim & Una Anderson" <timuna@starpower.net>; > > <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 3:02 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CUL-COP] Whitehaven Churches: Holy Trinity vs. Saint > > Nicholas vs. Saint James > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > The old St. Nicholas' church built in 1693 was enlarged in 1745-6 by > > two > > > > wings - the south, used later as a choir vestry, the north as a > > > SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > The Old Theatre Royal, Whitehaven was in Roper Street and dates back > > to > > > > 1769. It was closed in the 1930s and demolished in the 1960's. > > > SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > records, go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > -- > Wakefield England > I use Archive CD Books in my research http://www.archivecdbooks.org > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~framland/dh/ Whitefield Transcripts, > Etch/ells Transcripts > http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells Transcripts, Parish Records, Calendar, > Abbreviations, Returns of Owners of Lands etc. etc. > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

----- Original Message ----- From: H Todd To: ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 8:03 PM Subject: haughin (help needed) Hi All I have mailed other Cumbland lists, and they have been very helpful, but I am trying to find anyone that is related to Haughin/Hoffins I have a death certificate for a George Haughin (my wife g/father) died 1956, aged 75, he was a sampler in a steelworks, and lived at 26 Harcourt St His wife name was Wilhelmina Haughin nee Edgar.she died 1958 aged 72. When I look on the 1901 census for George Haughin age 20 , non show up ( if I am doing it right). Any help would be appreciated Thanks Bert

I am in need of a geography lesson....and pehaps it will benefit others.... could sks please tell me what/when parts of Scotland became part of England? what they were called then and what they are called now? Thanks Jan researching: SHAW, BOADLE, DIXON, NEILL, CONKEY, TOPPING - cumbria BROCKBANK, HERBERT, PARKER - cumbria SHEDD, SPEARS, STICKNEY, JEWETT BURCH - usa

Tim, The old St. Nicholas' church built in 1693 was enlarged in 1745-6 by two wings - the south, used later as a choir vestry, the north as a baptistry. It was demolished in 1891 and a new church was built and consecrated in 1893. The stone doorway of the old church was preserved as the inner door of the new church. On August 31, 1971 St. Nicholas' church was burned down and only the tower was saved. It is now used as a chapel. Holy Trinity was demolished in 1949 because it was considered unsafe. The Old Theatre Royal, Whitehaven was in Roper Street and dates back to 1769. It was closed in the 1930s and demolished in the 1960's. Mel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim & Una Anderson" <timuna@starpower.net> To: "Melville Cowin" <mel_cowin@btopenworld.com>; <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [CUL-COP] Whitehaven Churches: Holy Trinity vs. Saint Nicholas vs. Saint James > Mel -- > This was very helpful. I thank you. I am still trying to get an idea about > the pew at St. Nicholas as transferable property and why Henry Jefferson > would have owned it. He did have a philanthropic leaning. Another item in > the will was a subscription to the building of the Whitehaven theatre with a > silver ticket attached. So possibly, this pew had been in the family since > St. Nicholas was rebuilt. Although my information is that in the early > 1700s the family was still in Aikton. St. Nicholas apparently has the > largest grounds of the 4 EC churches (I am now including Christ Church). > Was it re-built or expanded again around 1825? > Tim