>From Caesar Caine: 'A History of the Rural Dean of Whitehaven' [1916] John GARNER, the Anabaptist pastor in Cleator, was buried in the dissenters' graveyard, at Cleator, December 2nd 1706, aged 75 years. His tombstone is affixed to the railway bridge which crosses the main road from Gutterby to Moor Row. The old burial ground is now largely covered by the railway embankment, though an adjoining field goes by the name of 'Sepulchre Meadow'. John Garner, the Anabaptist preacher, owned 'The Hollins' which was part of Row Foot estate, Cleator. Anyone care to comment on any of these places today? Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

A contributor to the New Brunswick Canada List (NewBrunswick-L@rootsweb.com) , a Mr. Tom Moffat, sent us a reminder concerning continuing updates to PRO on-line data. With Tom's permission to relay his thoughts and rather than mess up his good message with my own edits, here is what he says: "The PRO now has an incredible database, searchable free online, for soldiers who received pensions from about 1785 onwards. Thus it covers veterans of the NAPOLEONIC WARS and the CRIMEAN WAR. Some of these veterans emigrated to Canada and elsewhere, while others did not. However the database can be a bit confusing. Here are some guidelines: Go to: http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ put the NAME you want in the appropriate box - and if you add AND you can also put in a target location, like FERMANAGH or anywhere else. But be careful of towns or parishes, as names are often mis-spelled on the documents. put dates 1750 to 1870 in the next box put WO in the series box - this is for the War Office series. A clickable list with amazing details of regiment, dates of signup and release, age at release, and birithplace! The way to order copies is obscure on their site. Best to go to a helpful second site that provides the easiest links for ordering the documents from the PRO in paper form. (Beware high cost of ordering digital copies): http://bps.freehosting.net/about.html " ************ I found that simply entering my family name will bring up many names from many wars and will show their place of birth, regiment, etc. This could be a triggering key for some fresh starts if you are stuck. Even if you are not particularly interested in the military, the association of names and towns may give some guidance. I would caution against use of military records to prove anything. I know in my own case, several of my relatives lied about their age to join the army (this was common) but in times of war everything was accepted into the records as written. Try it, you will find it interesting. Best Gene

If you really want to know what Bugbear is/does, look at - http://www3.ca.com/solutions/collateral.asp?CT=65&ID=2602 I was unlucky enough to get infected (or at least my computer was) and my antivirus application completely cleared it up for me. Another tip - I use "Mailwasher" to look at mail on the server before downloading it. Bugbear mail is obvious from its size of about 69.5 K. I delete it before downloading. I know we shouldn't be discussing viruses on-list, so please contact me off-list if you want more info. Regards, Robert. Robert Tanner In Aus, phone (03) 6231 0794 PO Box 539 From OS, phone +61 3 6231 0794 North Hobart Tasmania 7002 rtanner@trump.net.au Australia http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~robtan/home.html

Hi All...... Went over to the FHC for a break yesterday and while looking for my Bowness people, noticed the following......only wrote one of each down, but there were more.......these were in the early to mid 1700's. Baptisms in Holy Trinity Church, Whitehaven....... 18 Dec 1732 - Anne to George & Anne Bewly 21 Jan 1732 - Isabel to Thomas & Jane Beeby St. James Church.......the minister in 1754 and for many years was a Thomas Spedding.......there are many of his offspring listed in the baptismal records......and marriages and so on. Hope this helps...... Heather

Sorry for the delay in posting. Jacob FLETCHER born abt 1807 Pardshaw, Blacksmith. Parents; Isaac FLETCHER(Landed Proprieter,born Pardshaw 1762) and Sarah MvKVEY born Scotland 1775. Wife; Elizabeth (GARRETT?) Born Workington. Children;Sarah,Mary Ann,Isaac,John,Elizabeth - all born Whitehaven. In 1851 Jacob and his family were living at Bransty. With them were Jacobs 91 year old father and sister in law Elizabeth GARRETT age 48 formerly a launderess,born Workington. Isaacs first wife Frances BATTEY died age 28 after the birth of her 6th child and Isaac married Sarah 2 years later. Regards, Sue.

I know this isn't Carlisle or Cumbria, but thought it may be of interest to any of you looking elsewhere, and if you were interested in purchasing census details. <A HREF="http://www.rod-neep.co.uk/acatalog/Archive_CD_Books_Census_129.html">Archive CD Books Ltd</A> Pam

No virus discussion onlist, please. Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net ENG-CUL-CARLISLE-admin@rootsweb.com ENG-CUL-COPELAND-admin@rootsweb.com

Please reply to Pat at Patricia@jervaulx.demon.co.uk, not to me. My name is Pat Lord (nee IREDALE) and I am carrying out a ONE NAME STUDY on the name IREDALE/IREDELL/IREDALL, which is registered with the GUILD This involves collecting together any data that I can find regarding people bearing this name. Obviously if this helps to put them into family groups, so much the better. As there were more people bearing this name in Cumberland in the 17th & early 18th century than in other regions, I am interested in hearing from anyone with any information, however small. The number of Iredales in Cumberland did not increase in line with the population increases of the 19th century but I understand there are still Iredales in Cumbria and more recent data or information will be equally welcome Hoping that someone , somewhere, has something for me Best wishes to your List Pat -- Patricia Anne Lord (nee IREDALE) Searching for IREDALES, IREDELLS (and other variants) worldwide Registered with the Guild Of One Name Studies

Hi All BUGBEAR As probably all of you will be aware, we've been under siege from the Bugbear virus over the last 72 hours. I've only had one in my mail this morning, so maybe the worst is over. Bugbear forges 'subject' and 'from' headings, so that you don't know who the e-mail is coming from. As always, make sure that you have an updated anti-virus program (I actually got round to upgrading to NAV 2003 during this bombardment), that you don't open unknown attachments and, if relevant, that you apply Microsoft critical updates. HOTMAIL, MSN, EARTHLINK, ETC. Throughout the short existence of this list, there have been problems for subscribers using the above services. Sometimes Rootsweb mail has been refused (bounced) as spam or for other reasons. Rootsweb automatically unsubscribes you after a fixed number of bounces. Rootsweb has received this message from MSN Hotmail: >We received your message concerning the problem you are >experiencing using MSN Hotmail. Our Technical Support Staff >is aware of this situation and is currently working on a fix to >the problem. Unfortunately, we can not give you a specific >time on when a solution will be determined, but please >be aware that our staff is working diligently on the matter. > > Hotmail is continually looking for ways to improve our service. >We strive to make positive changes to our product, based on >feedback we receive from our customers. We apologize for >any inconveniences this may have caused you and appreciate >your continued patience. > > Remember that MSN Hotmail also has comprehensive online >help available--just click "Help" in the upper right corner. Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net ENG-CUL-CARLISLE-admin@rootsweb.com ENG-CUL-COPELAND-admin@rootsweb.com

My computer is now clear of Bugbear worm - thanks to Heather. Apologies again to anyone who received one of its false e-mails claiming to be from me and sympathy to those who were infected before me and passed it on to the rest of us - I was unlucky, PC-cillin wasn't as quick as some other AVs to send the new definition. While it's still doing the rounds I'll try to remember to put the date in the subject line of e-mails that are not via lists. Malcolm Borrowdale (Swinton, Lancs)

unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <ENG-CUL-COPELAND-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:02 AM Subject: ENG-CUL-COPELAND-D Digest V02 #22

I regularly get asked how to find a will on LDS film and it's a while since I've posted instructions. So here goes. 1. Go to http://www.familysearch.org/ 2. Click on the SEARCH tab 3. Click on Family History Library Catalog 4. Click on PLACE SEARCH 5. Type in CUMBERLAND 6. Click England, Cumberland 7. Click England, Cumberland - probate records For Carlisle: 8. Click on Probate Records 1564-1858 9. Click on VIEW FILM NOTES. You now have 264 films to choose from. The first few films provide an index. Unlike Copeland, wills and administrations are held on separate films, so you may have to order 2 or more films to get the whole probate. Unfortunately, a year of wills can take up two films, and you may not know which to order for your particular needs. It may turn out cheaper to do this through Cumbria Archives Service. For Copeland: 8. Click on Probate Records 1466-1860 9. Click on VIEW FILM NOTES. You now have 664 films to choose from. 10. Put 394 in the search box and press GET RECORDS. This doesn't always work the first time. If you get the letter C rather than the letter A, try again. The first Copeland Film is No. 009875. Carry on till you have the film you need. Copeland films are well organised for early research. You can, for instance, get all A surnames 1540-1748 in three films. So very cheap and very easy. Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Norvill Jones writes: >As one new to the list, I hope that someone can help me in my >search for information about the family of Thomas Taylor (#2) >of Cumberland County in the late 1500s and early 1600s. <snip> >Does anyone have information about any Taylors who lived in this >area of Cumberland County during that time? <snip> Some time ago I did some look-ups for another person looking into this Taylor line. He was interested in a James Taylor of Lady Hall in Millom. For reasons that now escape me, I extracted the names of James and Francis Taylor from a printed transcript; but there were many others. I used the index rather than reading through the registers, and there could be omissions from the index. Taylors were at Lady Hall until at least the nineteenth century. Millom, Cumberland Baptisms 1599 March 25 Francis Tayler s. of James 1608 Jan 7 Jane Tayler d. of Francis de Ladihall 1610 Nov 1 James Tayler s. of Francis de Ladihall 1613 April 8 David Tayler s of Francis de Lady-hall 1617 July 20 Edward Tayler s. of Francis de Lady-hall 1634 Jan 13 Elizabeth d. of Francis Taylor de Lady-halle 1635 Feb 2 James s. of Francis Taylor de Laydy-Hale 1639 Jan 22 (blank) of Francis Taylor of Ladyhale 1641 Oct 3 Myles s. of Francis Taler de Ladyhale 1644 May 12 Thomas Tayler s. of Francis de Ladyhale 1650 Oct 27 Will. Tailor s. of Francis de Ladyhale 1656 June Francis Taylor d. of Francis de Ladihale Burials 1632 Aug 28 James Taylor de Ladyhale 1643 Nov 15 Elizabeth Taylor uxor Jacobi de Leadihall Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

When Joseph Dudley, ironmonger, of Whitehaven died in 1749, an extensive inventory of his possessions was made, stretching to some six pages and coming to the grand total of £1028 2s 1 1/4d Here are some items on the first page, to give you a flavour of what the Whitehaven middle class were buying. No 1 £/s/d Four thousand small Brass Nails -/9/- No 5 22 dozen and 2 pair of Steel shoe buckles 2/11/8 1/2 No 15 2 dozen and 3 pair of Knee buckles -/6/6 No 18 17 dozen of Boys Buckles -/14/2 No 23 Odd Buckles -/1/2 No 24 2 Dozen Combs -/1/4 No 27 21 pair of Compasses -/3/9 No 29 5 pair of Taylors Sheers -/2/1 No 32 1 Dozen and 7 pair of Scissors -/3/11 If this is of interest to anyone, I can look up the rest of the list when I'm next at the LDS and select a few other items. Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Jill Coulthard jjcoulthard@btinternet.com seems not to able to get through to the list at the moment. This is her message - please reply to her or to the list, not to me. *** Following a further dig through my files I have established which CLEMENT MOSSOP married Elizabeth Lowden and was presumably the one listed as the Landlord of the Sun Inn in 1897. He was a very distant cousin of your Clement Mossop who married Martha Sumpton and a grandson of the Clement Mossop who married Mary Watson. Interestingly though at their marriage on 26 January 1895 at Arlecdon it was ELIZABETH whose profession was given as a Publican at Arlecdon whilst Clement was a farmer of Frizington, Arlecdon. Elizabeth was about ten years older than Clement and their ages were given as 40 and 49. The witnesses were Alfred Robinson and Mary Robinson and Clement's father was given as John, farmer. Elizabeth had previously been married to Charles Lowden, an Iron Miner living at Winder, Arlecdon in an iron mining community. Clement died on 31st October 1903 at Skelscough, Arlecdon aged 45 years and was buried on 3rd November. He is recorded on an MI in Arlecdon Churchyard with his parents, a brother and a sister. His mother was presumably living at Skelscough where she died a couple of years later. Funnily enough I haven't been able to find Clement on the 1881 census nor 1901 census anywhere in the country. In 1881 his parents were living in Whitehaven with some of their children and two brothers were in Liverpool. It is confusing as the Clement Mossop who married Martha Sumpton also lived earlier at Skelscough where he died in December 1881. Elizabeth's maiden name was THOMPSON, daughter of John. I know nothing else about this family or why she should be the Publican in 1897. Mary Elliott nee Sumpton was a Publican in Arlecdon on the 1881 census. It definitely does not seem though that the transfer of the license was through family reasons unless the Thompsons can be connected in to the Sumpton line. The third Clement Mossop I suggested was married to Jane and farming in Warwickshire in 1901. I hope this might give you some leads as to when the Sumpton/Elliott line finished at the Sun Inn and when the Thompson/Lowden line started there. I do not have the 1891 census to check who was Publican there on that date. Best wishes, Jill Coulthard PS. My mail service has crashed so I am sending this from BT's website. I can only read mail without attachments from this so have been browsing the archives to keep up to date. I hope to have the problem sorted out very soon. - Famous last words!

I repeat - there is a virus doing the rounds at the moment. Don't open unknown attachments. Have a look at: http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.bugbe ar@mm.html Please do not reply to the list but to me. Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net ENG-CUL-CARLISLE-admin@rootsweb.com ENG-CUL-COPELAND-admin@rootsweb.com

Tim Anderson writes: <snip> >I am currently going with an explanation (a theory) that Sarah '87 died young. Either for the memory of the child or the memory of child's namesake another daughter in '93 was baptised with the same name -- also possibly a godparent's decision. This would mean that Sarah's sisters Elizabeth and Harriot also died young. <snip> >Any thoughts on these 2 Sarahs??? Some people write in to lists such as this to say that they have examples of parents naming two living children with the same name (not just Mary Ann & Mary Jane). I confess that I have never found an example, but I'd be interested if anyone here has any. I would automatically assume that a reused name meant that the first instance died. I wouldn't automatically assume that the lack of mention of a daughter's name in a will meant that she had died - another common reason was that she had already married. Unless you consider that marriage is close to death :-) I don't know that the choice of name was so much a godparent's decision - I've rather assumed that a child was named after a godparent???? Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Hi All There seems to be a Klez virus doing the rounds at the moments. It's stolen subject headings from at least the CUL, Quaker and Liverpool lists and comes with an attachment. No doubt a number of you will receive it over the next few hours. Please don't write any Virus warnings or messages to this list. If you have anything to say, write to me and I'll pass it on if it seems appropriate. Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net ENG-CUL-CARLISLE-admin@rootsweb.com ENG-CUL-COPELAND-admin@rootsweb.com

Hello Everybody, For those researching the Jackson families of Ennerdale, this may be of some interest: St.Bridget`s, Moresby John JACKSON, born in Ennerdale 4th July 1803, died at Ivy Cottage this parish 5th April 1883. Regards, Bryan

Hello Everybody, These may be of help to someone. Thomas Tinnion, Master Mariner, died April 11th 1881, aged 64, Ann his wife died September 2nd 1849, aged 26, Also Ann, his widow, died April 25th 1889, aged 70 (obviously his 2nd wife). And on the same stone, John Wilson, Master Mariner, who died at sea on board the ship "Hugh Ewing", May 19th 1877, aged 30. Robert Collier, late Commander of the Brig Manley of Whitehaven, died February 25th 1871, Elizabeth, his wife, died May 29th 1870, aged 57. Isaac Robinson died September 1836, aged 82, Mary, his wife, died November 1814, aged 49, Mary, 2nd daughter of above, died April 1958 aged 65. Mary, wife of Isaac Dixon, of Priest Gill, died December 5th 1873, aged 54. Also noticed Burnyeat, Dalzell, Ward, Thom, Waddinson, Cowman, Dowthwaite, Hewson, Rothery, Wandless, Neemes and Gill Regards, Bryan.