Hello, On another list they are transcribing "Magna Britannia-Parochial History". I would appreciate if someone would clarify an entry for this very confused American. I know I should have read up on jurisdictional levels but I thought that as long as I knew parish I was all right. Until I read this stunner - "The inhabitants [of Flimby], till of late years, buried their dead at the mother-church of Camerton." Would someone explain the relationships of the following example? The book lists these levels - Ward of Allerdale below Derwent .....Camerton ..........Township of Camerton ..........Township of Seaton Diocese of Carlisle .....Deanery of Wigton .........."Church of Camerton" ..............."Chapelry of Flimby (has been sometimes esteemed extra-parochial...)" .........."Chapelry of Flimby (...and sometimes a separate parish)". Is "Camerton" a name for both a political jurisdiction and a religious one? When they say "Church of Camerton" is that the same as parish? I know CofE is Established so there will be overlap. But what is the relationship between "Ward of Allerdale below Derwent" and "Deanery of Wigton" ; both of which appear next up from Camerton? And most important, does anyone know how frequent this ("buried their dead at the mother-church") was? Regards, David Knowles

David Knowles writes: <snip> >Would someone explain the relationships of the following example? The book >lists these levels - >Ward of Allerdale below Derwent >.....Camerton >..........Township of Camerton >..........Township of Seaton > >Diocese of Carlisle >.....Deanery of Wigton >.........."Church of Camerton" >..............."Chapelry of Flimby (has been sometimes esteemed extra-parochial...)" >.........."Chapelry of Flimby (...and sometimes a separate parish)". <snip> I'll give it a shot - but I don't know anything about Camerton and Flimby so my shot will be general. What you have above is two different jurisdictions. There is the 'civil' jurisdiction - ward and township - and there is the 'ecclesiastical' jurisdiction - diocese, deanery, parish and chapelry. These are hierarchical - the diocese is bigger and more important than a deanery, a ward a bigger unit than a township. The two systems cover the same area but are independent of each other. There was also a manorial system - this was 'civil' but operated at local level. As the same family often controlled the manor and the parish, there's plenty of room for confusion. Ecclesiastical jurisdiction was much more significant in the past than it is now for two reasons. First, it managed probate. All old wills you read were processed by ecclesiastical courts and officials. Second, the most important tax you paid was a local one paid to the church - tithes. At local level, too, the parish priest (rector or curate) could exercise considerable authority. And many local functions were exercised by officials (from local yeoman families) appointed at parish and manorial level. The term 'parish' is confusing in Cumberland becausee of chapelries. The original parishes (for instance, St Bees) could be very, very large, covering vast swathes of thinly populated land. People obviously couldn't easily get to the parish church. So chapels-of-ease emerged - they provided a limited number of functions for the local population, but they were subordinate to the 'mother' parish church. As the centuries passed, chapelries came to be seen more and more as independent parishes in their own right. Some small areas were extra-parochial. That is, they weren't part of any parish (they might , for instance, have been areas of land held directly under Crown ownership) and any residents would have used the services of neighbouring parishes. One of the reasons that this is all quite confusing is that power and money get involved. Chapelries had a natural urge to be independent, mother churches had a natural urge to keep control and to exact taxes. Local families wanted to control the advowson to the local church (the right of appointing the priest). And all sides employed lawyers to argue and strengthen their case. So we now are not just looking at what happened - we are looking at past interpretations of what happened. Was Flimby a chapelry or extra-parochial? Well, I expect the lawyers were arguing about that in the seventeenth century! Chris