Trevor you folks are wonderful. That is the information I was looking for - but Helen Strickland beat you to it. You confirmed what she told me (after she phoned James) and she also gave me a link to the new businesses they operate there which included photos. It all seems like only yesterday. I attended the local school and the church there. But I see by the map there have been many changes. How different from viewing the 1868 map of the same area (old-maps.co.uk). There seemed to be only minimal changes between 1868 and 1941 when I lived there. Cheers Terry

David, The full reference consists of Quarter, Registration District, Volume and Page (plus the person's name of course). Presumably it's cheaper to quote the reference because it saves them searching for the right entry. Petra ----- Original Message ----- From: <CDKnow@aol.com> To: <ENG-CUL-CARLISLE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 2:27 AM Subject: [CUL-CAR] GRO Index Reference Number > When ordering from the GRO it is 3 pounds less if you supply the "GRO index > reference". > > I'm looking at the FreeBMD page - is "Vol Page" the same as "GRO index > reference" ? > > David >

The PRO has a useful online database called E179. http://www.pro.gov.uk/catalogues/e179.htm and http://www.records.pro.gov.uk/e179/search_new.asp " The database provides detailed information about over 25,000 documents in the E 179 series, including the date and function of each document, the tax to which it relates, and the names of the places used as headings within it. It does not include the names of individual taxpayers, but can be used to locate those documents in which lists of individual taxpayers appear. " If you type in a Cumberland placename, you'll get a comprehensive list of all relevant tax records. If you click each record, you'll also get a detailed description of what it is, its condition, and a very few names. You can, of course, order copies of any of these records. Apparently, the project has been part funded by the Cumberland and Westmorland Antiquarian and Archaeological Society! Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Hello Terry, I know Townend farm very well - we are neighbouring farmers. The Knox family still own the place, although Alec (the person you would know) died in the early 70's in his fifties I think. His only son Jimmy now has the place. They no longer farm there. The land is rented out to another neighbouring farmer and Jimmy has converted the farm buildings into overnight accommodation. When the M6 Motorway was built in the early 70's, a number of buildings were demolished which included all the clay dabbing ones. With the building of the M6 the farm is no longer accessable by driving past the church. A new road and Motorway bridge was built behind the church, so it is now quite isolated from the rest of the village. I will pass a copy of your E-mail on to Jimmy. Cheers, Trevor Littleton

When ordering from the GRO it is 3 pounds less if you supply the "GRO index reference". I'm looking at the FreeBMD page - is "Vol Page" the same as "GRO index reference" ? David

In 1940 or 41 my younger brother and I were evacuated from Newcastle to this farm which is located at the north end of Houghton (about 4 miles north of Carlisle). Is this still a working farm and is the very old building (12 cent.?) made of red clay, I seem to remember, still standing? I think the farmer was a Mr. knox. That year we spent in Cumberland gave us lots of memories and country experiences which have lasted to this day. Modern maps show the farm completely surrounded by modern roads now: the M6, A689, Houghton Rd North and the old Houghton road. Terry Jackson, USA

Hi All, could SKS look up the following family on the 1861 census; John Bowman age <64> Mary Bowman age <64> Catherine Bowman age <33> (she married Thomas Anderson) Elizabeth Bowman age <31 Sarah Bowman age <22> They were living in Scotch Street , Carlisle, in 1851. TIA K in Devon.

Ann Brownrigg wrote: <snip> >Inventory shows assets totalling £498.16.00, of which £450 >represents a ship and rigging (unnamed but perhaps traceable >through the Barrow Archives??). <snip> Is that a part share in a ship? I don't think that I've ever seen ownership of a whole vessel, and £450 would be a touch cheap anyway. One possible way of tracing this would be to look through the port records kept at the PRO. These would at least tell you what ships were active then, as well as listing the master and the owners of the goods being carried - you might spot a Banks or a Brownrigg. Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Hi David - Harraby Green is a neighbourhood in Carlisle - beside the River Petteril and if you put "Harraby Green" in the search engine http://www.google.co.uk it will bring up various addresses their and possibly a map. Lynne in Carlisle

Hi David, The Cumberland Place Name Index lists Harraby in St. Cuthbert's parish, Carlisle, at grid reference NY 4154. There is also Harraby Grange in the same parish, but no grid reference. I seem to remeber there was a Workhouse in Harraby? Hope this helps. Petra ----- Original Message ----- From: <CDKnow@aol.com> To: <ENG-CUL-CARLISLE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 2:13 AM Subject: [CUL-CAR] Location-Harraby Green > On a marriage certificate from 1838 Ann Watson is said to be a "resident" of > "Harraby Green". I can't find it on any of my old or new maps (assuredly not > conclusive). > > On the 1851 census her birthplace is listed as Carlisle. Is Harraby Green a > street or neighborhood in Carlisle ? > > David

Hello David, An "innkeeper" is exactly that: the chap who runs and keeps the inn. He is not necessarily the person who owns the property, though some both owned and kept their hostelry, or followed their own calling while their wives ran the inn. The innkeeper needed an annually renewable licence - a "victualler's recognizance" - on payment of a fee (about £10 in the 18th century, but I believe it varied over time) and surety, usually from an innkeeping neighbour or relative, that he would keep an orderly house. Bearing in mind the fact that most inns of any size had stabling for the horses of individual travellers and/or coaches, the change in occupation to a "coachman" might not be too outlandish. Try this site for more about inns and innkeeping: < http://www.pubsindex.freeserve.co.uk> Hope this helps. Best wishes, Roz

David: 'Innkeeper' could either be the manager or owner of an Inn (a pub with accommodation). Cheers - Nigel >I have, just today, received from the GRO 2 certificates. > >The first, a marriage certificate in 1838, lists the husband's occupation as >"coachman." > >The second, a birth certificate for a daughter in 1850, lists his occupation >as "innkeeper." > >I acknowledge my ignorance of British property rights, etc and recognize they >are quite different from those in effect in America at that time. I would >have thought "innkeeper" was the owner ; aside from an inheritance (which >I'll explore) could a "coachman" save enough in 2 years to buy an inn ? Or >is the occupation "innkeeper" synonymous with manager ?

"THOMAS BANKS 1718. Abstract: Not a will but rather the undertakings by his widow Elizabeth, of Biggar, Walney. It is signed by her and Thos. Richardson, witnessed by Rich. Wilson and ?Gos. Cage. No other names are mentioned. Inventory shows assets totalling £498.16.00, of which £450 represents a ship and rigging (unnamed but perhaps traceable through the Barrow Archives??). The assets are more than offset by liabilities of £858, of which £8 seem to be for funeral expenses and the remainder for 'several debts on bills, bonds and mortgages." Courtesy HB. Jane Hareling married in 1657: 1)George Brownrigg of Cockermouth Park who was born in Crosthwaite (1625-1664) and 2) Robert Bankes of Workington, yeoman ca. 1665. Isabell Brownrigg of Crosthwaite (died 1670) married in 1669 a Thomas Bancks of North End, Walney, P. of Dalton. George Brownrigg was Isabell's uncle. If anyone can add information to the Brownrigg/Bankes connections, it would be much appreciated. Ann Brownrigg

Thank you for this interesting site http://www.taliesin-arlein.net/names/search.php. Not many of us Haughan's left. Prehaps that is why I am having no response

God I love it when a good piece of information comes in !!! David

Witnesses to the 1838 marriage of Joseph Trimble & Ann Watson at St Cuthberts in Carlisle - Edward Trimble and James Routledge.

I've seen the name Twentyman come up on various boards for Cumberland. I have no connection to the family ; but noticed the name on a certificate I just received. In 1838, in the parish of St Cuthbert in Carlisle, a Joseph Twentyman was Curate. David

On a marriage certificate from 1838 Ann Watson is said to be a "resident" of "Harraby Green". I can't find it on any of my old or new maps (assuredly not conclusive). On the 1851 census her birthplace is listed as Carlisle. Is Harraby Green a street or neighborhood in Carlisle ? David

I have, just today, received from the GRO 2 certificates. The first, a marriage certificate in 1838, lists the husband's occupation as "coachman." The second, a birth certificate for a daughter in 1850, lists his occupation as "innkeeper." I acknowledge my ignorance of British property rights, etc and recognize they are quite different from those in effect in America at that time. I would have thought "innkeeper" was the owner ; aside from an inheritance (which I'll explore) could a "coachman" save enough in 2 years to buy an inn ? Or is the occupation "innkeeper" synonymous with manager ? Thank you for any replies, David

New to this list - tracing family of Robert Nichol b.Nov. 27.1748 Carlisle died Nov. 7/1815 Carlisle. Robert married Isabella Hodgson (b.July 29, 1752) Sept. 26, 1772 Stanwix, Cumberland. 10 children were baptised in Stanwix, 2 in St. Cuthberts. Our connection is a John Nichol who came to Canada in 1832 and married a Jane Gardhouse. Any assistance would be appreciated. Barbara