Saturday, January 11, 2003, 11:41:30 PM, Chris wrote: CD> So what's your experience with 'Janet'? I also totally overlooked another one - the previous Janet nee Lamplugh and Robert Docwra had a son called Walter who married someone I have listed as Jennett dau of Roger Salkeld. Could this be a Janet as well? This would be around 1500-1520 I would estimate. -- Cheers, Anne mailto:docwras@yahoo.co.uk The Docwra Family Research Project http://resource.at/docwra

Saturday, January 11, 2003, 11:41:30 PM, Chris wrote: CD> The name was common in the parish of Lamplugh. The CD> extant parish registers begin in 1581. The first 'Janet' was CD> baptised in 1582. In 1583 there is a 'Jann'; in 1584 a 'Jann', a CD> 'Janet' and a Janne; in 1585 a 'Janet'; in 1586 a 'Jennett'. CD> A 'Janet' was buried in 1582, 1583, 1584, 1585, 1586 (two), CD> 1589 (two), etc.. Chris, This caught my eye as I have a Janet listed in my Docwra file. I don't have (yet) any dates for her, but she was born Janet daughter of Sir John Lamplugh (of Lamplugh Hall, Cumberland) and married Robert Docwra (of Dockwray Hall, Kendal). Their grandson Lancelot Docwra died 1577 in Kendal, so I guess she must be very late 1400'/early 1500's? -- Cheers, Anne mailto:docwras@yahoo.co.uk The Docwra Family Research Project http://resource.at/docwra

When I looked for Jennet instead of Janet spelling, I also found Jennet PARKIN b c 1670 - married a John REAY in HC in 1692 - no other details though. Anne; I have a Roger SALKELD in my tree - born 1703 and died 1703 in Torpenhow, son of John SALKELD & Frances WILLIAMSON. [John is son of Henry S & Elizabeth Irton. John died 1703. My line is from Henry & Eliz's dau Mary who married Cuthbert OSMOTHERLEY] Obviously though he's' likely named his son after someone....... Catherine Anne wrote: > Saturday, January 11, 2003, 11:41:30 PM, Chris wrote: > > CD> So what's your experience with 'Janet'? > > I also totally overlooked another one - the previous Janet nee > Lamplugh and Robert Docwra had a son called Walter who married someone > I have listed as Jennett dau of Roger Salkeld. Could this be a Janet > as well? This would be around 1500-1520 I would estimate.

From the IGI: Janet Hunter married Myles Fothergill in Ravenstonedale WES in 1592 But that's the only Janet in my Hunter research in Westmorland until the 19th century, which bears out the feeling that this is a name which didn't travel much below the Scottish border until relatively recent times. Cheers - Nigel

Hello, Have been testing the Leicester University site with the scanned images of directories. There are a total of 16 directories roughly covering 1815 to 1877 (they have some broader periods defined so I guess they plan to keep expanding the lists). They have a varying degree of county coverage ; unfortunately the "Pigot & Co National Commercial Directory for 1828-29" appears to be the only one with Cumberland coverage. But if you have ancestors from other counties you may find more inclusion. When I searched on the Cumberland names of interest to me I had the following number of hits (England wide)- Carlton 524 (few in Cumberland) Carleton 40 Trimble 9 Watson 1,996 McLean 19 McClean 0 Irving 127 Collin 73 Collins 1,028 Robinson 3,218 Jefferson 100 Raven 252 Grayson 94 Armstrong 818 David

Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net Chris asks; “So what's your experience with 'Janet'?” ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Other than all the Scots Janets I have in my database / families, I have a number from the northwestern area in the earlier records as well, so it does seem a localized phenomenon but one that could have stemmed from Yorkshire. I have a Janet b c 1530 [likely one of those Art & Hanna Lengkeek mentioned] who married Robt Barwise another Janet last name not known marr a Stephen B - and their dau Janet. Another was the dau of Thomas & Frances Barwise...of Lowsay [Holme Cultram area] Also note a Janet JEFFERSON [b c 1695] who married John REAY in 1719 [c Wigton] her name in the marriage as Jana - and death also appears as Jana. But, in her will of 1734 is noted [and Indexed] as Jann't de Dockray. Jennot Mandeville - also poss Madhel - or could it be Mandell? She married William Thomlinson of Wheyrigg. [ Bromeil /field parish] Janet OSMOTHERLEY b1592 dau of William & Mary - Wm was of Dubmill and his name spelled OSMUNDERLAW in the Visitation Pedigree. His grandmother was a Kirkbride from Yorkshire [Osmotherleys also originated from Yks. But were in Cul in late 14thC] She married Robert BARNES. [Mentioned in her mother Mary’s will of 1626] Another was Janet TOLSON b & died 16 Feb 1593 Bridekirk [father Richard T and her mother Eleanor LAMPLUGH]. Their second dau Janet was born in 1598. Richard is also an old Yks family - so it seems that Janet was in evidence in Yks as well. Back to the here and now ;~) Regards, Catherine >From cold, but not white Sherwood Park, Alberta.

Hi Peter: Good to see you are still alive and watching us! I found some more Janet Ostle(s) for you. I don't know if you can add them to your tree because most of them are from before 1600. A search on the IGI's <familysearch.org> gave me 8 results. Just enter Janet Ostle, nothing else, with exact spelling OFF. The first 6 are all from Holme Cultram, Cul. and are all spelled "Janat" by the transcriber. the last two are from 1677 (Aspatria) and 1842 (Dearham). Hope this helps. My conclusion, for all it's worth, is that the name Janet and variations thereof was actually fairly common in Cumberland, Westmorland and thereabouts in the 16th and 17th centuries. Probably because of the Scottish connections in some of the families. Art Lengkeek.

Hi, Chris, In my file of 900+ names, the first Janet is Janet Morgan, born in Dumfries about 1843. The next Janet, a McIinnon, is a person I have no information on but she married a Barrow man born in 1898. Three other Janets were all born in the latter half of the 20th century, two in England and one in Canada. Roger

I have only few 'Janet' s in my research also. Marriages: Jannet Knight & Johanni Maxwell 1632 Hayton upon Brampton Jennet Elwood & John Knight about 1696 Wetheral Janet Knight & Edward Gill 7 Feb 1684 Hayton upon Brampton Baptisms: Janet, daughter of John Knight, smith 19 Aug 1665 Hayton upon Brampton Jenny, daughter of William and Betty Knight 12 Sep 1784 Highhead{Ivegill} If any of these people are of interest to anyone please contact me. Bill Knight Chagrin Falls, Ohio Researching all the KNIGHT's of Cumberland

Hi Listers, I am hoping that someone with access to the 1861 & 1871 Census for Cumberland England maybe able to do some look-ups for me please. I am trying to locate where associated families of my Graham family who came to New Zealand late in 1863, were living during the Census's of 1861/71. The families all grouped below are the children (and wives and descendants) of ... John Graham and Jane Sewell. John died at Chalk Cottage, Dalston in 1867 aged about 71 years, and Jane died at Broomfield House, Dalston in 1890 aged abt 92 years. Elizabeth Graham Bn 1822 and William IVISON Jane Ivison Bn 1840 Ellen Ivison Bn 1849 Henry Graham Bn 1826 and Ann Clarke Bn 1821 Henry Graham Bn 1861 Almira Agnes Graham Bn 1866 John Graham Bn 1828 and Eliza Hurst Bn c.1821 These are my ancestors who arrived in New Zealand in 1863 John Graham Bn 1849 Elizabeth Hellen Graham Bn 1851 Eliza Ann Graham Bn 1855 David James Graham Bn 1856 Francis Smith Graham Bn 1858 Margaret Graham Bn 1834 and Isaac HARRISON Bn 1833 Joseph Harrison Bn 1859 Thomas Harrison Bn 1861 Margaret Ann Harrison Bn 1864 John Harrison Bn 1867 James Harrison Bn 1868 Isabella Graham Bn 1836 and Thomas BENSON Bn c.1835 Frances Benson Bn 1861 John Benson Bn 1863 Isabella Benson Bn 1865 Nancy Benson Bn 1867 James Benson Bn 1869 William Benson Bn 1871 Catherine Graham Bn 1838 and William BROWN Bn c.1835 John Brown Bn 1859 Thomas Graham Brown Bn 1861 Thomas John Brown Bn 1864 William Henry Brown Bn c.1870 Thomas Graham Bn 1840 and Ann Bn c.1840 George Graham Bn 1864 William Graham Bn 1866 Elizabeth Graham Bn 1868 Mary Jane Graham Bn c.1871 Obviously some of these people will not appear on the 1861 Census but should be on 1871 Census. If you have any connection to any of the above families I would very much like to hear from you. To anyone who can help me with this task I offer my sincere thanks in advance. Best regards, Bruce Glass New Zealand

We are researching the following names in the Carlisle area: FRANCE LIGHTFOOT GILLESPIE SANDERSON BANKS ALLINSON BOUCHER TORDIFF HARRISON plus several others. You can find more detail about specific families on our website at http://www.usmk.net - we'd be delighted to search our databases if anyone has similar interests. Lynne Hall

This is interesting. I have over 1,000 names on my Ostle file and there is only ONE Janet; she was a Janet Bell born in 1925 her mother being an Ostle. I looked through Joan Dunmore's Gedcom of her ancestors, mostly Harrisons and Wilkiinsons from Holm Cultram, there is only one Janet Wilkinson and none in the Harrisons. Was this name limited to families with Scottish connections until recently? When I was a lad in Aspatria we had a Weather House (Man comes out when wet, lady when fine). My grandmother always referred to it as "The Janet & Robin" -- was this common usage? Peter Ostle visit the family websites at www.ostle.ca

Hi All There was a thread on soc.genealogy.britain recently about the use of the name 'Janet'. When was it first commonly used? Now, my response to that would have been it's always been used; but I would have been wrong. Turns out that it was common in Scotland but, until the late nineteenth century, not in England. At least, not in England excluding Cumberland. The estimable Eve McLaughlin commented in the thread that 'in the very north of England, by influence from Scotland, you did get Janets'; but I get the impression that Janet was pretty much indigenous to the county. The name was common in the parish of Lamplugh. The extant parish registers begin in 1581. The first 'Janet' was baptised in 1582. In 1583 there is a 'Jann'; in 1584 a 'Jann', a 'Janet' and a Janne; in 1585 a 'Janet'; in 1586 a 'Jennett'. A 'Janet' was buried in 1582, 1583, 1584, 1585, 1586 (two), 1589 (two), etc.. However, I am aware that other forenames (like Cuthbert, Oswald and Gilbert) can be fairly localised or used just within a few families. So maybe this is a Lamplugh phenomenon? So what's your experience with 'Janet'? Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Hello, The people are not directly related to Cumberland ; but the general question could apply, as in the mining industry. My ancestor David Knowles said that when he was orphaned in 1821 he was sent to live with relatives and apprenticed to keep the books at a lime kiln. I have found 2 Knowles' in approximately the correct area (he was speaking to an audience of American children (at a sort of Cymanfa-Welsh eqiuvelant of a revival meeting) in western Nebraska in 1892, and who were probably not at all familiar with UK geography - he said it was Liverpool but I have found an entry across the river in Denbigh that looks promising). In the 1835 Pigot's of North Wales it lists an Edward and a John Knowles as "Slaters & Plasterers". Wouldn't a slater have access and reason to apprentice a nephew at a quarry/lime kiln ? David

Hi Chris: I have a: 1 Janet Langcake, chr:30 Jan. 1597 in Crosby Ravensworth, Westmorland 2 Janat Langecake, Married Rick Penrise Dec. 1597 in Holme Cultram, Cumberland 3 Janeta Langcake, Married 25 July 1666 in Wigton, Cumberland 4 Jannet Langcake, Married May 1, 1670 in Bromfield, Cumberland Source: IGI, spelling is as per IGI, did not check Parish Records. The Langcake surname (later Longcake) was quite common in Holme Cultram Parish to the south-west of Carlisle, in the Solway Plain in the !6th and 17th Centuries. They intermarried with a lot of other local families and almost all of them had Janets in them. They were the Barwise (18), Chambers, Osmotherley(6), Hayton (20), Pearson(6), Ostell (8), Wise(1) and many other surnames. These families seem to have had connections in Westmorland, Yorkshire, Durham and Lancashire also. Several families had cross border connections in Scotland. The earliest Janet I found was born before 1550. Were the Janets ever as numerous as the Anne, Mary, Margaret, Jane and Elizabeth first names? I doubt it but I have not made a special study of the Janets of this world. For now, I will stick to the Langcake and Longcake surnames. We have traced our Langcake Tree back to George Langcake of Carlisle, born appr.1640-1650. George was Gaoler at Carlisle Castle for quite a number of years and later became a Sadler in Carlisle.From the time before that I have literally, hundreds of names and dates to work with. Also quite a number of wills. The family appears to have been concentrated heavily in Cumberland. If anyone has any information on the family give me a shout, I can use all the help I can get ! Regards, Art Lengkeek, Chilliwack, BC Researching Langcake and Longcake surnames in Cumberland, UK, in 16th and 17th Centuries. There should not be any attachments sent with this e-mail.

Hello, As long as I've been involved in UK genealogy I've heard of Pigot. But I'd never seen it. The University of Leicester has put scanned images of at least 4 of his and at least 8 of other directories on line - http://www.historicaldirectories.org/ . I don't remember who posted or sent me this but I have to thank you ! It was about a month ago and I'm just now getting to it. If it came from here I apologize for the repost. I know "extreme" and "must see" (among others) are terribly overused phrases ; but this really is a must see site. David ps It is a little difficult to navigate.

Chris, That's interesting. I've always thought of Janet as a widely used name. But checking my files I've only got - 2 Janets b.1837 and 1870 both in Glasgow 1 Jeanette (a variant?) b,1800 in Scotland 2 Jeans, again Scotland and many Janes (not sure if either name is a derivative). I quite a few families researched in Cumberland. If it was common you'd think I'd have found at least one. Wonder if this experience indicates a migration pattern and possible kinship ? David

Hello all, I love to help and monitor boards to answer questions. Recently helped someone on the Boulder County, Colorado board and they said they lived in Boulder and if I needed anything feel free to ask. I answered "Thank you but I have all my Boulder research done." Both lists may feel free to email me and call me STUPID and/or ARROGANT (or anything else but please don't question my parents marital status). Not long after that, I bumped into a connection that has opened multiple doors. Only problem is we can't connect it all. She has many (30 or more) old photos that are family. I can positively identify 4 as my line with ties to the Carltons of Cumberland ; in fact 2 could only be through the Carltons. I believe because of these all the others must be related to the Carltons (Sarah Isabella (Carlton) Birkett seems to be the focal point of it all). I can make a very strong (but circumstantial) case for the rest being Carltons, Birketts, Irvings and others from Cumberland. Steve Bulman has very graciously agreed to post them on his site - ( http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/ ) and I would greatly appreciate if you all would review them to see if you recognize a face. I just tonight sent him the first set so it will be a while before they are posted. But if I may recommend, go there now anyway - great site ! Especially for those of us who have never "been back" home to Cumberland - breathtaking photos of a beautiful place. David

For those interested in pubs and inns I see there is a message board on the National Pub and Brewery History Website www.btinternet.com/~steven.william1/pubgintro A message from last year mentions a collection of photos of pub signs some of which are Cumbrian. Regards, Sue

Hi All..... I was over at the FHC today, trying to get my head back into parish records after the Xmas break. As usual, didn't find much for myself, but got a few names I recognized for these Lists. No particular order, and they are all (but one) from LDS film #90678, Holy Trinity Chapel BT's 1. 11 Feb 1719 - Jonathan TIFFIN of Innerdale, yeoman, married Abigail DICKINSON, spinster. 2. 31 Oct 1791 - Samuel BROWNRIGG, yeoman, married Jane WILSON, spinster, both of Whitehaven. 3. 17 May 1807 - baptism of James, son of Charles and Ann DICKINSON (born April 15th) In the St. James film #90680, burial of Sarah, wife of John TWENTYMAN, 4 March 1802. I did find 4 Bownesses......but had 3 of them. Where is 'Ginns'? It was the 'abode' of Thomas Bowness and wife Mary. Hope these help someone.......Heather.