I wonder if someone would be kind enough to look in the Carlisle library, at the parish registers for me. I have done everything I can think of to find NICHOL Haughan born around 1780/90 to avail. I think he was probably born in the Longtown/ Crosby upon Eden area. I would be willing to do a look up in our local libraries in return.

Hi all - only in the last week or so someone posted a message with details of where to look to see which Cumbrian parishes are covered by the IGI - and the dates covered. I can't for the life of me find the message - even looking in the archives. Can someone please oblige? Lynne in Carlisle

Sorry, should be www.visitcumbria.com Sue

Hi , I had forgoten how usefull this site is, lots of piccies and good info. www.visit.cumbria.com Regards, Sue.

Sorry Folks, The message regarding the photos was meant for the Copeland List. Bryan

Hi Everybody, I have been out and about with the camera again and have available, photos of the church at St.John`s in the Vale, St.Mary`s at Threlkeld, St.Bega`s at Bassenthwaite, St.John`s at Bassenthwaite, St.James at Whitehaven, St.John`s at Bigrigg, St.Paul`s at Frizington and a few more of St.Michael`s at Lamplugh. Anyone interested please drop me a line. Regards, Bryan P.S. I also have a couple of Whitehaven taken from afar, so not much detail I`m afraid.

Hi Pat I too am trying to trace my relatives to today as I have very few relatives. I have had some sucess! I traced my fathers cousin by finding his fathers ( my grandmothers brother) wifes maiden name and then via the GRO tracing their children. I struck lucky I found a male child and then guessed that they might still be in the same area and sure enough I found someone with the same initials in that area. He's in his sixties and although doesn't know much family history is very interested in anything I find out. I am now in the process of finding some more relaitves through the male line. I started with the 1901 census and then when I found a wife, I typed in their christen name on the 1881 census with year born and county of birth and then cross referenced their maiden names with a marriage reference from the GRO or free bmd for their husband. From there I found all the children either born in the area or after 1912 with mothers maiden name that match exactly. I have had some success with this. Unfortunately I'm only coming up with female offspring. But I shall continue on, taking heart from my earlier sucess. If I can be of any further help, let me know. E.B England

The question is frequently asked "How much of a XYZ parish's records have been extracted to the IGI" ? I found a new name and so was running it through my list of Cumberland bookmarks. Landed on "Cumberland Family History Site" ( http://www.cumberlandroots.co.uk/ ) and found something I had missed before. They have a page "Parishes not on the IGI" ; that is a little misleading - it's even better. It is a list of what years of every parish's records are NOT in the IGI. It is interesting to note the number of marriage records that stopped in 1837. Appears that with the advent of civil registration, individual teams made the decision to exclude or perhaps the project management recently made that decision. David

Hi Folks, Searching for anyone who is related to the Stubbs of Carlisle 19th and 18th centuries. They all lived around Blackfriars Street and English Street and were baptized etc at St Cuthberts. A common occupation was Shoemakers. Roy

Hi Everybody, I came across this M.I. today while paying a very brief visit to St. John`s in the Vale church: "In memory of John Wren of Birkettbank who died March 9th 1784 aged 47. Elizabeth his wife died June 10th 1797 aged 61 years. Also in the memory of John Wren son of the above John and Elizabeth Wren who died on the 1st of May 1811 in the 29th year of his age." Bryan

The reprints of Besse's Sufferings are also available from the Quaker Family History Society bookstall:- c/o Chris Pitt Lewis, 5 Rad Valley Gardens, Shrewsbury SY3 8AU. I have transcribed most of the entries for Cumberland (Not Cumbria so, sorry, no Docwras) on my website. I've also listed the people mentioned in Ferguson's "EARLY CUMBERLAND & WESTMORLAND FRIENDS". These are both in the "Friends & Neighbours" section. Peter Ostle visit the family websites at www.ostle.ca

As a number of people have asked me about Besse's Sufferings, I thought I would post something generally about it. Joseph Besse published his 'Collection of the Sufferings of the People called Quakers' in 1753. This gives an account of the 'sufferings' [imprisonment, fines, etc.] endured by Friends before 1690, and is a very valuable source for Quaker names at a local level. Fortunately, the work is in the process of being reprinted in facsimile. As far as I am aware, four volumes are now available - the one including Cumberland, Westmorland, Durham & Westmorland, Isle of Man and Lancashire is ISBN 1 85072 242 0 [Editor: Michael Gandy; Sessions Book Trust; pub. 2000]. As a little taster: "John Grave of Turpenhow, Thomas Watson of Cockermouth, and John Robinson of Brigham, taken out of their own Houses by Soldiers and carried to the Governour of Carlisle, were by him imprisoned, in the Depth of Winter, in a cold Place over one of the City Gates, where they were denied the Visits of their Friends, and had their Food frequently kept from them, nor were they permitted to go out to ease themselves". You can probably find the books on Amazon, though on a quick check I didn't get a result; but they are available on WH Smith: Cumberland - £12 http://www.whsmith.co.uk/WHS/Go.asp?isbn=1850722420&DB=220 Yorkshire - £12 http://www.whsmith.co.uk/WHS/Go.asp?isbn=1850722129&DB=220 London - £12 http://www.whsmith.co.uk/WHS/Go.asp?isbn=1850722765&DB=220 New England, Maryland, West Indies - £18 http://www.whsmith.co.uk/WHS/Go.asp?isbn=1850722641&DB=220 Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net

Thursday, February 6, 2003, 11:01:30 PM, you wrote: CD> Besse's Sufferings Chris, I understand some of my Quaker Docwra's are mentioned in this. Whereabouts would I be able to find a copy, would you know please? -- Cheers, Anne mailto:docwras@yahoo.co.uk The Docwra Family Research Project http://resource.at/docwra

Hi listers, Joseph Besse's 'Book of Quaker Sufferings' has also been microfilmed and is available through the LDS Family History Centres. I had it in a few years ago. The film number is: 599671 (do double check the number before ordering). The facsimile reprint editions (in geographical areas) published by Sessions of York are excellent because they are indexed. These books (and other historical works about Quakerism) can be viewed at Sessions of York's site: http://www.sessionsofyork.co.uk/books/hist_qkr.html I recently purchased the edition which included Cumberland, Westmorland, Lancashire etc. I put in the order by email directly from Sessions and then rang them with my VISA number as their ordering facility is not secure. Good hunting, Lorraine Victoria, BC Canada > As a number of people have asked me about Besse's Sufferings, I > thought I would post something generally about it. > > Joseph Besse published his 'Collection of the Sufferings of the > People called Quakers' in 1753. This gives an account of the > 'sufferings' [imprisonment, fines, etc.] endured by Friends > before 1690, and is a very valuable source for Quaker names at a > local level. > > Fortunately, the work is in the process of being reprinted in > facsimile. As far as I am aware, four volumes are now available - > the one including Cumberland, Westmorland, Durham & Westmorland, > Isle of Man and Lancashire is ISBN 1 85072 242 0 [Editor: Michael > Gandy; Sessions Book Trust; pub. 2000]. > > As a little taster: > > "John Grave of Turpenhow, Thomas Watson of Cockermouth, and John > Robinson of Brigham, taken out of their own Houses by Soldiers > and carried to the Governour of Carlisle, were by him imprisoned, > in the Depth of Winter, in a cold Place over one of the City > Gates, where they were denied the Visits of their Friends, and > had their Food frequently kept from them, nor were they permitted > to go out to ease themselves". > > You can probably find the books on Amazon, though on a quick > check I didn't get a result; but they are available on WH Smith:

For further info: 1861-1871: For our purposes, not all that much different from the 1851. The 1861 was taken on the night of the 8th of April, and the 1871 on the night of the 2nd of April. Some indexes exist - not many - but you will have to search for them. 1881. Taken on the 3rd of April. Most folk seem to know a fair bit about this one. Before the advent of CDROM it was distributed on microfiche, and was the first census to be completely indexed. The indexation took the form of five sets of fiche, colour coded to surname index - pink; place index - orange; birthplace index - green; miscellaneous (those on ships, in institutions, etc.) - brown; and as enumerated (written down as the census taker copied them onto his sheets) - yellow. Now the 1881 is online at www.familysearch.org With the advent of Viewer 3, a disc that came with later versions of LDS software, anyone who had the CDROM disks at home could by-pass the normal search and do a more user-friendly search. If I put in a string of words such as Price miller Gresford, up would immediately come Price, Frederick, miller, Gresford Lane, Gresford, and all the household. If one put in Jones butcher Wrexham, all the butchers by surname of Jones in that town would come up (and probably all those with the surname Butcher, too!). Another trick is simply to put in forenames, as in the case of a girl marrying to someone you haven't found yet. This is fairly selective, but it can work in instances where the forenames are uncommon, particularly if you include the birthplace, and then this gives you something else to search into. 1891. Taken on the 5th of April. Of course, not indexed, and you need to know a street (if choosing a town). Still, small villages and hamlets are fairly easy to access - usually contained within one to about four microfiche. These can be obtained from your local LDS family history centre and cost AU$1.00 for the first fiche, and 50 cents thereafter, and the fiche stay at the centre for future perusal. The family history library catalog should be consulted for places, and the larger LDS libraries have a list of street indexes. An example is my folk at Maesbury in the 1891 census, shown under the heading of Oswestry Rural. Another person was accessing these microfiche as recently as this week and was not having much luck until I mentioned that Oswestry Rural was not a hamlet or village as such, but a combination of the farming land around Oswestry. He went back to the fiche and found his folk within half an hour. 1901. Taken on the 31st of March. I think there has been enough talk re. this on the list of recent times, so no need for me to delve into that. Check out the archives of this list on Rootsweb! Pam

Anyone out there with DEVINE/DIVINE or STRANEYin Carlisle Our link is James DEVINE - married to Margaret STRANEY (daughter of Bernard & Ann)- married in 1847 in Carlisle known children: Bernard DEVINE b :1848 Carlisle, d :1894 Annan Mary DEVINE b: 1850 Carlisle - last known of 1871 Isabella DEVINE b: 1852 Carlisle - nothing known James DEVINE b: 1854, married Ruth and then Ellen - last known 1906 Carlisle Anne DEVINE: b: 1857 Carlisle, m: Thomas TONNER. d: 1926 Annan Frances DEVINE b: 1860, Carlisle, m: Robert MILROY. d: 1938 Dumries Infirmary Lynne

Hi All.......Malcolm is having computer problems and asked that I forward this message to the List....... Could someone forward it to the 'Cumbria List' for him??? Thanks. Heather ------------------ Since my message about unsubbing does not appear to have appeared on any of the lists I sent it to, I'll send it again to those that Ruth also uses. I am unsubscribing for a while from all my lists. My computer has decided that it is so senile it needs to retire from all activities. Consequently I can neither send nor receive e-mails at home. Any non-list messages will be fielded by Ruth on either my address (using bt webmail) or hers and anything important passed on by telephone. Don't know how long the situation will last - days? weeks? but I'll be back as soon as possible. Malcolm Borrowdale (Swinton, Lancs.) ==== CUMBERLAND Mailing List ====

Subject: Farm Surname - Ostle Newtown (Later known as West Farm, Newtown) Parish Holm Cultram 1538 - 1971 (Farm still in family ownership, but no longer worked by an Ostle, just the nephew of one!) Peter Ostle visit the family websites at www.ostle.ca

Bill Ford wrote: >My grandmother's name is Annie Wright and came from Halston Tringham. Would your index show any thing about this location? Freda Jackson's Index doesn't say anything about families. It simply lists place names that are found in various 19th and 20th century sources with their parish and map Grid Reference. And it's restricted to Cumberland (rather than Cumbria). Nothing about Haston Tringham or Halston Tringham. Sorry! Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net (Sorry! Thought I had posted this earlier)

Dorithie Denn writes: >I am researching the name of MADG(E)N mainly living in the >Alston/Nenthead and surrounding areas. >I have recently been contacted by a young lady who is >researching the name of MADG(I)N in the same areas, >though I must say that some of them appear to have >slid down to Northumberland. Can anyone tell me if >these two families could in some way be related. Am I right in thinking that you are asking about the difference in spelling? The variant spelling of Madg(e)n and Madg(i)n isn't enough to make the families distinct. After all, before the twentieth century large sections of the population were illiterate and didn't know how their name should be spelt! I get this all the time with people who (annoyingly) spell me as Dickenson rather than Dickinson (I don't think they are illiterate though!). Chris chris@dickinson.uk.net