Dear Gloria Hargreave, hello from Chicago USA   You asked for an opinion regarding a comment.  I am on digest so I did not check first to see if anyone else had already answered through the list, but these are my opinions - without knowing either of these people.  (I eagerly look forward to what others may uncover who are more knowledgeable with English court systems, and the "transportation to Australia" banishment often meted out to "undesireables".   "it would be a most agreeable circumstance to the university and town of Cambridge to have these females removed as soon as possible" Why would such a comment be made and recorded? Possibly because this was not the first time Elizabeth or Ann were caught shoplifting?  Or the merchants were fed-up with having been shoplifted before, and wanted to make an example of someone? (Teenagers from well-off families in the US shoplift for the thrill (adrenoline-rush) and out of boredom.  Even society matrons, whose incomes or savings have been depleted during these economic tumble, are shoplifting this Christmas in Chicago area - to "stretch their budget" (and it is usually small stuff like cosmetics).  Only the "poor" are shoplifting meat (between their legs) and other high-value groceries, and they usually steal in rings.)   Besides, while sister Elizabeth was caught with the goods, Ann did not turn her in but rather tried to interfere with the arrest ("bribe" the merchant to release her sister, or not press charges by paying for the shoplifted goods) - possibly even physically trying to free Elizabeth from being grabbed and held for the constable?   Australia was the "dumping ground" for petty thieves (male and female) during this time, and possibly for England's over population (the Industrial Age led to many rural folks flocking to cities which were not equipped to handle the influx, or not all got jobs).     They were both of previous good character.  How do you know they both were of good character before this event?  Have you found other proof?  Ann must have married well with the second husband, and became "a lady" (of good character)  and possibly hid her past "transportation" upon her return to England.  But raising 3 children before being arrested she probably was just a "working woman" (factory, washing, ...) unless her first husband earned enough to support her family.  Elizabeth may have been of a different character, and possibly unable to afford the items she picked up in the draper shop (to resell).  Again, these are guesses as to the times.  (Oliver Twist ran with a gang of thieves who lifted coin purses, stole handkerchiefs, and even clothes.  A draper was someone who sold clothes, handkerchiefs, and similar items I think.  I used to think is was someone who made draperies for windows.  One of my relatives I think was a draper.)      "Why was the university mentioned? " Not knowing Cambridge personally, but it being where my grandmother was born in the late 1800s, I think the various colleges of CU scattered around the city were "integrated" into the framework of the city at large (possibly university folks were also represented on the city's governing council).  So a reflection on the city became a reflection on the U - who would want to go to one of the university colleges if the town was "overrun with thieves"?   "Would Ann Single's husband have been employed there?" Who knows - You'd have to discover a "city directory" listing residents and occupations for the time period to be sure.  My immediate guess is possibly not - probably not a professor, but could be a "servant" for the dormitories, or a tradesman?   "The women had been charged and sentenced to 7 years transportation. The petitioners were John Mortlock, J Bissell and Richard Sill. After consideration, this was the recommendation. No mercy" You'll notice that the petitioners (Mortlock, Bissel and Sill), could possibly be other merchants whose shops had been hit by Elizabeth and/or Ann, and probably not the prosecution lawyers?  They were not the drapers in whose shop Elizabeth and Ann were caught.  So who were Mortlock, Bissel and Sill - discovering them might be a clue.   "Mary's father was Samuel Foster,  a wealthy man, and she was his only child and inherited most of his estates in England and Australia" So Mary's father was the Birmingham gentleman with whom Ann co-habitated?  Why was he deported to Australia anyway?  (I suspect that Australian "convict" records probably would provide the clues?)  Many prisoners were related as useful settlers of Australia, some made good investments I think, and thus became wealthy.  Then returned to England and bought their way into society or a good marriage? (I watched the PBS series regarding the ship that went to Australia with an all female convict load, and literally saved the colony by marrying the inmates and populating the colony with offspring - some attaining great wealth through their own efforts or investments in infrastructure (ferries, stores, ...., land).)   ----- Chicago, as it approaches the Christmas shopping season, has only "suffered" 2 inches of snow last week (mostly melted by now) and low temps (34 - 20 degrees F).  I suspect if you live near Sydney you'll be barbequing on the beach Christmas day?  We'll probably be huddling around a dinner table of turkey, cranberry sauce, sweet potatoes, and pie.  Or ethnic-inspired desserts. (My English granny made Yorkshire pudding when she hosted the family; my Norwegian-American grandmother made Julekaka when she hosted it.   Ralph from Chicago Researching DELLAR, BARRINGER, PEARCE, and related families from Cambridgeshire   --- On Sun, 12/13/09, eng-cambridgeshire-request@rootsweb.com <eng-cambridgeshire-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: From: eng-cambridgeshire-request@rootsweb.com <eng-cambridgeshire-request@rootsweb.com> Subject: ENG-CAMBRIDGESHIRE Digest, Vol 4, Issue 145 To: eng-cambridgeshire@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 2:01 AM Today's Topics:    1. Re: Court petitions (Gloria Hargreave) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:35:04 +1000 From: "Gloria Hargreave" <smith-thompson@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [ENG-CAMS] Court petitions To: <ENG-CAMBRIDGESHIRE@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <000e01ca7b94$7f102060$0200000a@ad540cdcac0394> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1" I was wondering if any Lister would be able to tell me why a particular comment was made when considering a petition for clemency that  was put before the court. Ann Single (?nee Grey) and Elizabeth Grey had both been arrested in the  draper shop of  Hiron and Thrower. It was Grey who had the stolen goods, but Ann Single offered money to Thrower not to arrest them. The petition was for Ann Single, married with 3 children and an ellderly mother reliant on her. Her husband was John Single. The year 1806. The women had been charged and sentenced to 7 years transportation. The petitioners were John Mortlock, J Bissell and Richard Sill. After consideration, this was the recommendation. No mercy. The comment: "it would be a most agreeable circumstance to the university and town of Cambridge to have these females removed as soon as possible" Why would such a comment be made and recorded?  They were both of previous good character.   Why was the university mentioned? Would Ann Single's husband have been employed there? I'd welcome any comments. Ann went on to cohabit with a gentleman from Birmingham and had a daughter to him, Mary in 1811. The Birmingham gentleman took Ann and Mary back to England in 1818. A family bible is in the family and it is a bible dedicated to Mary by her husband John Smith (a Solicitor from Staffordshire). Mary's father was Samuel Foster,  a wealthy man, and she was his only child and inherited most of his estates in England and Australia. He also left Ann well cared for. Ann's son John also came to Australia and was a beneficiary in Samuel Foster's will. Gloria ------------------------------ To contact the ENG-CAMBRIDGESHIRE list administrator, send an email to ENG-CAMBRIDGESHIRE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the ENG-CAMBRIDGESHIRE mailing list, send an email to ENG-CAMBRIDGESHIRE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-CAMBRIDGESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ENG-CAMBRIDGESHIRE Digest, Vol 4, Issue 145 **************************************************