As you say this is a probability but we have their death certificates still as Pateman. What we are thinking is if the children were baptised as babies then their Mother would have been in her 30s (according to the age on her death certificate) so were any children born to them before this date if so it is a strong possibility they would have been named after their parents JOHN and or JANE. Also William seems to be a family favourite all through the years. Maybe Jane had children before she met John? No marriage certificate has been found for them yet. They were together at both baptisms and when she died in the New Forest her certificate said wife of John, so would this mean he was still alive at the time of her death? We also have Patemans who used the Mothers maiden name of Major, Hence Major Pateman at first we thought we were looking for an Army Major. It all gets very confusing. Thank you for replying Jackie Dave -----Original Message----- From: JACKIE BLACKMAN [mailto:jaxblk@btinternet.com] Sent: 26 October 2007 11:42 To: eng-buckinghamshire@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-Buck] PATEMAN family =Hi Dave, This is probably a long shot but... In my hawker Gypsy families they often used the surname of the mother. For example, in my Gregory family, several of the children were baptised as Gregory (father's name), some as Lee (the mother's surname) and even a couple as Smith (the maternal grandmother's name!). This was not dependent on whether they were married or not. Could it be that your Pateman family could be using the wife's family name in the 1841 census? Best wishes, Jackie No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1095 - Release Date: 26/10/2007 19:54