Oh, I almost forgot. I found two George Kitcheners in the 1891 census. George aged 31 married to Annie, in London, & George aged 32 married to Emma, in Northamptonshire. I think that's enough for you to proceed. The Bucks FHS has a database of parish registers, does searches for a small fee, & sells .pdf files with complete registers for some parishes. It also publishes a transcription of the 1851 Bucks census on CD, which is one of the cheapest available. You may find some or all of those useful. www.bucksfhs.org.uk The Bucks Genealogical Society is about to publish a transcription of the 1861 census, which is not as cheap as the BFHS 1851 but inexpensive & still good value, & might also be useful to you. I've ordered it. www.bucksgs.org.uk Good luck. Paul jsavile wrote: >Good morning:) >I've just joined this list in the hope of getting some help in tracing the parents and ancestors of my great grandfather George Kitchener who was born c1859, I believe in Olney. His wife, my gt grandmother, was Emma Rose though he *may* have been briefly married prior to that. I've found their marriage on freebdm but thats as far as I can get apart from finding Emma's parents on the 1881 census. > >Hoping someone can help me out here, >Jane Savile (Suffolk, UK) > > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 17/01/05

First the good news. I've found George Kitchener born Olney about 1859 in the 1871 census. But there's some bad news - there's two of him. Olney - Back St. Wash??? Ephriam Kitchener 40 shoe maker Ann wife 38 lace maker John son 16 shoe maker Sarah dau 14 lace maker Joseph son 13 shoe maker George son 12 scholar Susan dau 8 do James son 6 do Philip son 4 do Ann dau 2 All born Olney Olney East side High St. E????? (transcribed Elease by Ancestry.com) Kitchener 36 shoe maker Susannah wife 40 Hannah dau 13 lace maker George H son 11 shoemaker Henry W son 6 Frederick S 2 b SRY Battersea - all others born Olney The 1851 census shows - The Leys, Olney Eleazor Kitchener 53, labourer Ann wife 50 lacemaker Ephraim son 19 labourer Deborah dau 18 lacemaker Eleazor son 16 Shoemaker's apprentice Eliza dau 14 lacemaker John son 11 labourer Ezra son 9 Shoemaker's apprentice All born Olney. So you have Georges paternal grandparents, even if you don't know who his father was. There are also a couple old enough to be Eleazors parents - High St. East Side In the household of Thomas Denton, 35, b Emberton & his wife Deborah, 34 b Olney - nee Kitchener? William Kitchener Relation 78 Chelsea Pensioner Fanny wife 73 Lacemaker both born Olney But there are others in between, too old to be Williams sons & too young to be Eleazors father. I think you need Georges marriage certificate to be sure which father was his, unless you think you can definitely distinguish between George & George H by other means. Paul jsavile wrote: >Good morning:) >I've just joined this list in the hope of getting some help in tracing the parents and ancestors of my great grandfather George Kitchener who was born c1859, I believe in Olney. His wife, my gt grandmother, was Emma Rose though he *may* have been briefly married prior to that. I've found their marriage on freebdm but thats as far as I can get apart from finding Emma's parents on the 1881 census. > >Hoping someone can help me out here, >Jane Savile (Suffolk, UK) > > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 17/01/05

Good morning:) I've just joined this list in the hope of getting some help in tracing the parents and ancestors of my great grandfather George Kitchener who was born c1859, I believe in Olney. His wife, my gt grandmother, was Emma Rose though he *may* have been briefly married prior to that. I've found their marriage on freebdm but thats as far as I can get apart from finding Emma's parents on the 1881 census. Hoping someone can help me out here, Jane Savile (Suffolk, UK)

HI List, I have joined your list ( am on several others ) in the hope of finding something on a WILLIAM NEIGHBOURS who married CATHERINE GOSS in 1749 at Wooburn according to the IGI. I have on my daughter in laws tree a CATHERINE NEIGHBOURS widow who married a JAMES WOODWARD in London in 1754 and this Catherine is the first one that I can find to even remotely be the same lady. Any help in finding a death or descendants of William and Catherine would be great so as to rule her in or out. Thanks Daphne NEW ZEALAND.

Jenny many thanks I had seen this image but my hang up was the age discrepancy. I should like him to be my Thomas TURNEY because then it would be easier to trace him. It's possible he just lied about his age on documents he could control. Who knows? Patricia CASTLE CARY

Barbara Yes. Jesse HELEY did marry Mary Ann TAVENER, daughter of Richard and Eliabeth (nee SEABROOK) TAVENER. We share common gX? grandparents. Jesse and Mary married 20/09/1849 in Slapton. I have not got far with the Taveners yet. Patricia CASTLE CARY

Hi Patricia Could this be your Thomas from 1871 Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island Christopher Turney 49 Slapton, Buckinghamshire, England Head Slapton Buckinghamshire Mary Turney 49 Cheddington, Buckinghamshire, England Wife Slapton Buckinghamshire Mary A Turney 35 Slapton, Buckinghamshire, England Sister Slapton Buckinghamshire Mary A Turney 20 Slapton, Buckinghamshire, England Niece Slapton Buckinghamshire Thomas Turney 29 Slapton, Buckinghamshire, England Brother Slapton Buckinghamshire Let me know if you want the image. Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:18 PM Subject: [ENG-BUCK] Re Thomas TURNEY Slapton > Hello List > > This is a very general enquiry. On his marriage cert (30/07/1874 to > Elizabeth HELEY daughter of Jesse), Thomas TURNEY is 23 and the son of William > TURNEY (dec). On the '81 census he is 35, in '91 he is 44, in 1901 he is 54 and > when he dies (26/09/1911) he is 65. If he was born in the mid forties he > ought to be in the 1851 census but I could not find him. The most consistent > piece of information is that his birthplace is always stated as Slapton. > > Does any one know where he fits in the Turney pantheon? Is he really the > Thomas born in 1841 to William and Elizabeth? > > Patricia Fuller > Castle Cary > Somerset > > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/05 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/05

Patricia, I saw your note about the Turney family and noticed Elizabeth Heley's name and father Jesse. My gggaunt was married to Jesse Heley and she died in 1862. Her name was Mary Ann Tavener. Please contact me if you think this is the same family. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:18 AM Subject: [ENG-BUCK] Re Thomas TURNEY Slapton > Hello List > > This is a very general enquiry. On his marriage cert (30/07/1874 to > Elizabeth HELEY daughter of Jesse), Thomas TURNEY is 23 and the son of > William > TURNEY (dec). On the '81 census he is 35, in '91 he is 44, in 1901 he is > 54 and > when he dies (26/09/1911) he is 65. If he was born in the mid forties he > ought to be in the 1851 census but I could not find him. The most > consistent > piece of information is that his birthplace is always stated as Slapton. > > Does any one know where he fits in the Turney pantheon? Is he really the > Thomas born in 1841 to William and Elizabeth? > > Patricia Fuller > Castle Cary > Somerset > > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > >

It happens - my stepfathers great grandfather ancestor William John Barnes appears in records variously as William J Barnes, William Barnes & John Barnes. So definitely worth considering. Paul > > From: Sandra J Smith <[email protected]> > Date: 2005/01/11 Tue PM 12:49:29 GMT > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] need opionion on theory > > Hi Judy, > Another possibility is that your James Jakes was actually a James George > Jakes or George James Jakes and they are one and the same person? > Sandra > ----------------------------------------- Email provided by http://www.ntlhome.com/

Hi Judy, Another possibility is that your James Jakes was actually a James George Jakes or George James Jakes and they are one and the same person? Sandra elista wrote: >Hi List, > >Here is the situation: > >In my search for info on my ancestor, James JAKES ( JAQUES /JACQUES /JACKES ) I found what I looked like a new firstborn child, born in Haddenham in 1852, from the 1861 census of Barking, Essex, where they lived at that time. Before that, I thought all their children were born in Essex, from the 1871 and 1881 census records. I have not been able to find his marriage record anywhere, with wife Mary Ann Edwards, from Feltwell, Norfolk. In hopes of finding some clue, I decided to order the birth certificate for the birth of this child born in Haddenham in 1852. I just rec'd the certificate, and it lists the mother as Mary Ann JAKES ( formerly EDWARDS ) but it lists the father as a George Jakes. Now James did have a brother named George, who was 10 years older than him. Back in November, when I sent a message to this list, I rec'd a kind reply with a 1851 census record of a George Jakes and wife Mary ( born Feltwell, Norfolk ) in Townside, Haddenham with 3 children. I'm relativ! e! > ly sure this is James brother as George's occupation is listed as a ropemaker, and this is a JAKES family occupation. > >So, my question is: what are the chances of two brothers both marrying a Mary Ann Edwards from Feltwell, Norfolk? Could it be that George Jakes died later in 1851 or 1852/53 or so, and his younger brother married the wife? ( Or maybe never married the wife, thus no marriage record ) ? James and Mary had children born starting about 1854, in Barking, Essex. I have not found a death record for George around 1851/52 on the free BMD site. > >I was wondering if SKS could do a look-up in the 1861 census to see if George is still there with his wife Mary. I'm thinking if they are still there, then we know for sure there are 2 Mary's, as I already have the 1861 census record for James Jakes and his wife Mary. >Thanking you all in advance for any help and/or suggestions about this. >Judy Carleton, in sunny but cold Alberta, Canada > > >============================== >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > >

Hello List This is a very general enquiry. On his marriage cert (30/07/1874 to Elizabeth HELEY daughter of Jesse), Thomas TURNEY is 23 and the son of William TURNEY (dec). On the '81 census he is 35, in '91 he is 44, in 1901 he is 54 and when he dies (26/09/1911) he is 65. If he was born in the mid forties he ought to be in the 1851 census but I could not find him. The most consistent piece of information is that his birthplace is always stated as Slapton. Does any one know where he fits in the Turney pantheon? Is he really the Thomas born in 1841 to William and Elizabeth? Patricia Fuller Castle Cary Somerset

Definitely one possibility is that it's the same person. However, it's just as possible that George died and James married his widowed sister-in-law. My gg-grandfather on my mother's side married two sisters and my wife's gg-grandfather married three sisters. This was not uncommon in those days so it's definitely a possibility. Regards, Edgar Cross --- Sandra J Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Judy, > Another possibility is that your James Jakes was > actually a James George > Jakes or George James Jakes and they are one and the > same person? > Sandra > > elista wrote: > > >Hi List, > > > >Here is the situation: > > > >In my search for info on my ancestor, James JAKES ( > JAQUES /JACQUES /JACKES ) I found what I looked like > a new firstborn child, born in Haddenham in 1852, > from the 1861 census of Barking, Essex, where they > lived at that time. Before that, I thought all their > children were born in Essex, from the 1871 and 1881 > census records. I have not been able to find his > marriage record anywhere, with wife Mary Ann > Edwards, from Feltwell, Norfolk. In hopes of finding > some clue, I decided to order the birth certificate > for the birth of this child born in Haddenham in > 1852. I just rec'd the certificate, and it lists the > mother as Mary Ann JAKES ( formerly EDWARDS ) but it > lists the father as a George Jakes. Now James did > have a brother named George, who was 10 years older > than him. Back in November, when I sent a message to > this list, I rec'd a kind reply with a 1851 census > record of a George Jakes and wife Mary ( born > Feltwell, Norfolk ) in Townside, Haddenham with 3 > children. I'm relativ! > e! > > ly sure this is James brother as George's > occupation is listed as a ropemaker, and this is a > JAKES family occupation. > > > >So, my question is: what are the chances of two > brothers both marrying a Mary Ann Edwards from > Feltwell, Norfolk? Could it be that George Jakes > died later in 1851 or 1852/53 or so, and his younger > brother married the wife? ( Or maybe never married > the wife, thus no marriage record ) ? James and Mary > had children born starting about 1854, in Barking, > Essex. I have not found a death record for George > around 1851/52 on the free BMD site. > > > >I was wondering if SKS could do a look-up in the > 1861 census to see if George is still there with his > wife Mary. I'm thinking if they are still there, > then we know for sure there are 2 Mary's, as I > already have the 1861 census record for James Jakes > and his wife Mary. > >Thanking you all in advance for any help and/or > suggestions about this. > >Judy Carleton, in sunny but cold Alberta, Canada > > > > > >============================== > >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about > your family and the > >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in > the last 12 months. > >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million > records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the > world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > ===== Edgar H Cross View My Genealogy Research and Guide at http://www.ehcross.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

Hi List, Here is the situation: In my search for info on my ancestor, James JAKES ( JAQUES /JACQUES /JACKES ) I found what I looked like a new firstborn child, born in Haddenham in 1852, from the 1861 census of Barking, Essex, where they lived at that time. Before that, I thought all their children were born in Essex, from the 1871 and 1881 census records. I have not been able to find his marriage record anywhere, with wife Mary Ann Edwards, from Feltwell, Norfolk. In hopes of finding some clue, I decided to order the birth certificate for the birth of this child born in Haddenham in 1852. I just rec'd the certificate, and it lists the mother as Mary Ann JAKES ( formerly EDWARDS ) but it lists the father as a George Jakes. Now James did have a brother named George, who was 10 years older than him. Back in November, when I sent a message to this list, I rec'd a kind reply with a 1851 census record of a George Jakes and wife Mary ( born Feltwell, Norfolk ) in Townside, Haddenham with 3 children. I'm relative! ly sure this is James brother as George's occupation is listed as a ropemaker, and this is a JAKES family occupation. So, my question is: what are the chances of two brothers both marrying a Mary Ann Edwards from Feltwell, Norfolk? Could it be that George Jakes died later in 1851 or 1852/53 or so, and his younger brother married the wife? ( Or maybe never married the wife, thus no marriage record ) ? James and Mary had children born starting about 1854, in Barking, Essex. I have not found a death record for George around 1851/52 on the free BMD site. I was wondering if SKS could do a look-up in the 1861 census to see if George is still there with his wife Mary. I'm thinking if they are still there, then we know for sure there are 2 Mary's, as I already have the 1861 census record for James Jakes and his wife Mary. Thanking you all in advance for any help and/or suggestions about this. Judy Carleton, in sunny but cold Alberta, Canada

Hello Wendy Thank you for letting me know about the website. I do feel very disappointed though as I contributed a number of strays and now feel that my efforts were wasted! Ros -----Original Message----- From: Wendy Archer [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 January 2005 17:06 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] Strays Hello Ros - > Does anyone know when the part of the website relating to Buckinghamshire > strays is likely to be updated? It has not been updated for two years > since January 2003 Although the site to which you refer purports to relate to this mailing list, it's actually a site put up by the previous list admin. I was not offered it when I took over the [email protected] list, and my understanding is that my predecessor is longer pursuing genealogical interests. So consider it an orphan site. -- Wendy List admin [email protected] ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Thanks Margaret, much appreciated. James aged 48 could be my guy so I know where to look now. Thanks again! Julie -----Original Message----- From: Margaret Auger [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, 9 January 2005 12:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] 1841 Census - Great Linford Hi Julie and Mark, Here is the James Hawley in the 1841 Stoke Goldington and probably his father as well. I'm sorry I don't have any reference numbers for you. 1841 Census - Stoke Goldington Church End HAWLEY, John age 76, no occupation, born in county 1841 Census - Stoke Goldington Church End HAWLEY, James age 48, Ag Lab, born in county HAWLEY, Ann age 19, Lacemaker, born in county I didn't see any other HAWLEYS in Stoke Goldington so hope this helps one of you just a little, Margaret Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] 1841 Census - Great Linford > If it's any help to Julie, I've also found the name spelt as Haule, and > Hauley. > > There is a James Hawley, son of John & Susanna, who was Baptisted on 9th > December 1792 at Stoke Goldington which is about 5 miles from Great Linford. > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Hello Ros - > Does anyone know when the part of the website relating to Buckinghamshire > strays is likely to be updated? It has not been updated for two years > since January 2003 Although the site to which you refer purports to relate to this mailing list, it's actually a site put up by the previous list admin. I was not offered it when I took over the [email protected] list, and my understanding is that my predecessor is longer pursuing genealogical interests. So consider it an orphan site. -- Wendy List admin [email protected]

Does anyone know when the part of the website relating to Buckinghamshire strays is likely to be updated? It has not been updated for two years since January 2003 Ros -

Hey thanks Mark, for both tips! I'll follow them up as soon as I can. Cheers Julie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2005 9:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] 1841 Census - Great Linford Alex, Many thanks for your reply. It's exactly what I was hoping for. If it's any help to Julie, I've also found the name spelt as Haule, and Hauley. There is a James Hawley, son of John & Susanna, who was Baptisted on 9th December 1792 at Stoke Goldington which is about 5 miles from Great Linford. Best regards, Mark Ashwell Leicester ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429

Hi Julie - the only Hawleys I can find in Great Linford were the two households already listed. There was a Catherine Worley living next door to the second set of Hawley's - very close phonetically so I thought I'd mention it on the offchance - she is 40 and born in the county, and although she had no occupation listed she would appear to be a servant on the farm of Eli Elkins. Regards Alex --- Julie Fitzgerald <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Alex > > Could I prevail upon you to check if there is a > James Hawley and/or > Catherine Hawley also on the 1841 census? I don't > know yet anything more > about James except his wife's name (Caporn) and that > he was "of Gt Linford" > but maybe he'll be related to the people you've > given Mark below. > > Thanks heaps > > Julie > Melbourne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexandra Coles [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2005 3:54 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] 1841 Census - Great Linford > > Hi Mark > > Bingo! In Great Linford (no detailed address given): > > Thomas HAWLEY 40 butcher Yes (ie born in the county) > Hannah HAWLEY 40 Yes > Fridick(?) HAWLEY 14 Yes > Leah HAWLEY 12 Yes > Thomas HAWLEY 10 Yes > Alfred HAWLEY 8 Yes > Sarah HAWLEY 6 Yes > Emma HAWLEY 3 Yes > (HO107/57/12 folio 10 page 15) > > also in Great Linford: > > James HAWLEY 80 farmer No > Eliz HAWLEY 80 Yes > John HAWLEY 50 baker Yes > Charles HAWLEY 45 Yes > (HO107/57/12 folio 4 page 2) Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

Hi Mark Bingo! In Great Linford (no detailed address given): Thomas HAWLEY 40 butcher Yes (ie born in the county) Hannah HAWLEY 40 Yes Fridick(?) HAWLEY 14 Yes Leah HAWLEY 12 Yes Thomas HAWLEY 10 Yes Alfred HAWLEY 8 Yes Sarah HAWLEY 6 Yes Emma HAWLEY 3 Yes (HO107/57/12 folio 10 page 15) also in Great Linford: James HAWLEY 80 farmer No Eliz HAWLEY 80 Yes John HAWLEY 50 baker Yes Charles HAWLEY 45 Yes (HO107/57/12 folio 4 page 2) Regards Alex in Auckland NZ --- [email protected] wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > Further to my email yesterday (see below), I > received a mail informing that > Alfred's parents were possibly Thomas & Hannah > Hawley of Great Linford. I > would be very grateful if SKS could look for Thomas > and Hannah in the 1841 > census to confirm if Alfred - aged 8 is with them?. > > > Mark Ashwell > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com