This is the Olney area going back into the 1700's. My ancestor Eleasor K.(spellings vary!!!) married Ann Gilman of Olney in 1819. I've also got a William Kitchener marrying Jane Gilman in 1752 but as I'm currently stuck with another William towards the end of the century haven't looked into a connection with that one yet. Also have a several BOSWELLs, FREEMANs and HOOTON's marrying KITCHENERs Thanks for the info on occupations:) Jane Savile (Suffolk, UK) ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] Occupations/KITCHENER/DIX/GILMAN > Gilman? When? Where? I have a Catherine Gilman born around 1800. Said she > was born Steeple Claydon, but said to be of Wendover when she married. >

<<Scavenger is what it sounds like. Collects what other people throw away, & makes it pay by sorting it into real rubbish & sellable stuff. Rags had value. Used in paper-making, for example. Scrap metal, broken glass, paper - all sellable. Recycling isn't a new idea.>> I believe in the nineteenth century scavenger was the word used to describe a street cleaner. Some scavengers were direct employees of the local government, others were contractors who paid for the privilege of doing it (because the refuse they collected was valuable - think of all the horse droppings, which could be sold as fertilizer). Matt Tompkins Leics

Gilman? When? Where? I have a Catherine Gilman born around 1800. Said she was born Steeple Claydon, but said to be of Wendover when she married. "Laster" sounds like a maker of lasts, i.e. things for making or repairing shoes on. Big shoe making industry in N. Bucks, outworking for firms in Northampton I presume. Scavenger is what it sounds like. Collects what other people throw away, & makes it pay by sorting it into real rubbish & sellable stuff. Rags had value. Used in paper-making, for example. Scrap metal, broken glass, paper - all sellable. Recycling isn't a new idea. Paul > > From: "jsavile" <[email protected]> > Date: 2005/03/01 Tue AM 08:55:23 GMT > To: [email protected] > Subject: [ENG-BUCK] Occupations/KITCHENER/DIX/GILMAN > > Sifting through information purchased from Bucks FHS, I'm curious as to some > of the occupations listed. I believe they would be to do with shoemaking > but can anyone tell me please what is a 'laster' or a 'liftmaker'? And > what exactly is a 'scavenger'? > Also I'm noticing the names DIX and GILMAN cropping up frequently in my > KITCHENER research, sometimes used as christian names. If anyone > researching these names has any KITCHENERs I would love to hear from you. > > TIA > Jane Savile (Suffolk, UK) > > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com virus-checked using mcAfee(R) Software visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information

Hi everyone this is my first posting, and I'm very much hoping someone might be able to help me with early records from Whitchurch. I'm tryng to identify the surname of Clara Ann, b 1845. She married a THOMAS WILLIAM SMITH of Harrow (date unknown, wonder if this took place in Whitchurch also), and had her first child, Clara Matilda Smith, in Westminster 1869. Because of the dates, the first census I can access (1871) already has Clara Ann married, so I'd be very grateful if anyone is able to help? Thanks Amanda Pickering Penzance -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.2 - Release Date: 28/02/05

Sifting through information purchased from Bucks FHS, I'm curious as to some of the occupations listed. I believe they would be to do with shoemaking but can anyone tell me please what is a 'laster' or a 'liftmaker'? And what exactly is a 'scavenger'? Also I'm noticing the names DIX and GILMAN cropping up frequently in my KITCHENER research, sometimes used as christian names. If anyone researching these names has any KITCHENERs I would love to hear from you. TIA Jane Savile (Suffolk, UK)

Edgar when I needed information on the ship that my forefathers crossed the Atlantic on I joined the "TheShipsList" mailing list here on Rootsweb and posted my query on there. I had no idea of either the name of the ship or the date it sailed and yet the same day that I posted my inquiry I had not only the name of the ship but all the details of it and the passenger list with my family clearly showing...They are truly miracle workers so I would suggest that you try them for your answers. Judi McRae Tacoma WA You said on the Eng-Buckinghamshire List on 24 Feb 2005: Does anyone know where I could find a passenger list for english ship that sank in 1882? The ship was called the RMS Duoro and was discovered about 1982. It was carrying a good amount of gold coins, dust, bars and diamonds. My g-grandfather is said to have been a passenger on this ship. I'm looking to confirm this. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Edgar ===== ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Judi McRae, a Proud Canadian living in the Glorious Pacific Northwest (Tacoma,WA, USA) Please NOTE*** I am NOT researching the McRae name. Nothing attached to this letter is from me unless specifically mentioned in the body of the letter. FIGHT SPAMMERS: Please remove all previous addressees before forwarding this material. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .

Hello, On the offchance, is anyone researching the 19th century OWEN families in Aylesbury, please. Regards Vicki Turner ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 1:09 PM Subject: ENG-BUCKINGHAMSHIRE-D Digest V05 #35

Another thing - there's a Sarah KEEN aged 12 in 1851 in Hawridge, near St. Leonards. Ag. Lab. Mother Mary, 52, widowed, Pauper - despite 3 Ag Lab sons, Sarah, & a 3 yeard old grandson who was also (according to the census transcript) an Ag. Lab. Whole family born Hawridge. Could be yours. The forthcoming Bucks Genealogical Society 1861 census transcription might help there. Paul Jenny wrote: >The following from Princes Risborough transcripts could explain the name Free! > >Marriage: >25 Aug 1823 >TURNER X Absolam bach S both otp B >FREE Grace spr > >and from baptisms: > >4 Nov 1821 bn 25 Oct 1799 TURNER Absolam Joseph & Elizabeth S Sawyer >4 Nov 1821 bn 2 Oct 1801 TURNER Joseph Joseph & Elizabeth S >Sawyer >S = Speen > > >Jenny > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Irving" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:07 PM >Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] TURNER, KEEN, HUNT, HODGKINSON > > > > >>According to the 1851 census, Absolom (spelt like that) was 14, so born >>1836-7. Speen, as you say. >> >>No information about his parents, as he'd already moved out to work on >>Dunderedge Farm, St. Leonards, farmer Mathew Hobbs. >> >>FreeBMD gives the district, not the place. They may have married >>anywhere in Aylesbury district. I think there's a list on Genuki of >>parishes by district. The marriage certificate would give fathers names. >> >>By the way, Speen's in the civil parish of Princes Risborough. Can't see >>him in Speen in 1841. The only Turner boy about the right age is Free >>(yes, that's right), who's also in the 1851 census. >> >> >>Paul >> >>Joan Hall wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hello everyone, I am new to this list and my interest are >>>TURNER Absalom born about 1838 at Speen Bucks according to the census. He >>>married >>>KEEN Sarah in 1859 at Aylesbury I found that on the freebmd. They had a >>>daughter Sarah Ann who married >>>HUNT John Malcolm in 1899 I have the marriage certificate. John was the son >>>of Thomas a baker then a cattle man that is >>> >>>proven. Believe his father was David born Fulbrook Oxon >>> Thomas was married to >>>HODKINSON Elizabeth. Now her name has allsorts of spellings. Her parents >>>were George and Elizabeth and that is where I grind to a halt. >>>So I am looking for the baptism of Absolom TURNER about 1838 and if anyone >>>else is working on theses families I would love to hear from you. Joan In >>>Devon >>> >>> >>>============================== >>>Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >>>areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >>>Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 22/02/05 >> >> >>============================== >>Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >>last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> >> >http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >> >> > > >============================== >Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 25/02/05

Dear Paul, Do you know if the PR transcripts are on fiche and would I get them from the FHS? I do have a fiche reader and have bought from other FHS. Another question is are the parish chest papers in the public domain? I can see I will have to come to Buckinghamshire for my holidays. I often spend my holiday in a dark room scanning film. Thank you so much. Regards Joan

Well, there it is. William is the older brother of Absalom born 1837 or so, both are sons of Absalom born 1799. You're well on your way, Joan. The Risborough PR transcripts could be handy for you. Absalom the elder died between 1841 & 1851, but Grace was still alive in St. Leonards in 1851. Spring Wood Grace TURNER wid 48 b Risborough Lacemaker Pauper (sadly common) Victoria dau 10 b St. Leonards Scholar Pauper John son 7 do do Absolom moved out to work because he had to. Same for the others, I'm sure. Nehemiah (25 b Risborough) was keeping an alehouse at Chivery, married to Elizabeth, 22, b St. Leonards with son Nathun, 2 months. No sign of Eve, Ellen or Elizabeth, but loads more who could be related. Probably worth buying the 1851 transcript if you want to check them out. Paul Jenny wrote: >The following from Princes Risborough transcripts could explain the name Free! > >Marriage: >25 Aug 1823 >TURNER X Absolam bach S both otp B >FREE Grace spr > >and from baptisms: > >4 Nov 1821 bn 25 Oct 1799 TURNER Absolam Joseph & Elizabeth S Sawyer >4 Nov 1821 bn 2 Oct 1801 TURNER Joseph Joseph & Elizabeth S >Sawyer >S = Speen > > >Jenny > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Irving" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:07 PM >Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] TURNER, KEEN, HUNT, HODGKINSON > > > > >>According to the 1851 census, Absolom (spelt like that) was 14, so born >>1836-7. Speen, as you say. >> >>No information about his parents, as he'd already moved out to work on >>Dunderedge Farm, St. Leonards, farmer Mathew Hobbs. >> >>FreeBMD gives the district, not the place. They may have married >>anywhere in Aylesbury district. I think there's a list on Genuki of >>parishes by district. The marriage certificate would give fathers names. >> >>By the way, Speen's in the civil parish of Princes Risborough. Can't see >>him in Speen in 1841. The only Turner boy about the right age is Free >>(yes, that's right), who's also in the 1851 census. >> >> >>Paul >> >>Joan Hall wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hello everyone, I am new to this list and my interest are >>>TURNER Absalom born about 1838 at Speen Bucks according to the census. He >>>married >>>KEEN Sarah in 1859 at Aylesbury I found that on the freebmd. They had a >>>daughter Sarah Ann who married >>>HUNT John Malcolm in 1899 I have the marriage certificate. John was the son >>>of Thomas a baker then a cattle man that is >>> >>>proven. Believe his father was David born Fulbrook Oxon >>> Thomas was married to >>>HODKINSON Elizabeth. Now her name has allsorts of spellings. Her parents >>>were George and Elizabeth and that is where I grind to a halt. >>>So I am looking for the baptism of Absolom TURNER about 1838 and if anyone >>>else is working on theses families I would love to hear from you. Joan In >>>Devon >>> >>> >>>============================== >>>Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >>>areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >>>Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 22/02/05 >> >> >>============================== >>Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >>last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> >> >http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >> >> > > >============================== >Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 25/02/05

Dear Jenny, You are an absolute treasure. This is the 1841 isn't it. I am so pleased. Not only have you found the one born 1836 but to find his father as it sure looks like it could be. Anything I can do in return? My main interests are in Lancashire and Cheshire. Thank you. Regards Joan

The following from Princes Risborough transcripts could explain the name Free! Marriage: 25 Aug 1823 TURNER X Absolam bach S both otp B FREE Grace spr and from baptisms: 4 Nov 1821 bn 25 Oct 1799 TURNER Absolam Joseph & Elizabeth S Sawyer 4 Nov 1821 bn 2 Oct 1801 TURNER Joseph Joseph & Elizabeth S Sawyer S = Speen Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Irving" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] TURNER, KEEN, HUNT, HODGKINSON > According to the 1851 census, Absolom (spelt like that) was 14, so born > 1836-7. Speen, as you say. > > No information about his parents, as he'd already moved out to work on > Dunderedge Farm, St. Leonards, farmer Mathew Hobbs. > > FreeBMD gives the district, not the place. They may have married > anywhere in Aylesbury district. I think there's a list on Genuki of > parishes by district. The marriage certificate would give fathers names. > > By the way, Speen's in the civil parish of Princes Risborough. Can't see > him in Speen in 1841. The only Turner boy about the right age is Free > (yes, that's right), who's also in the 1851 census. > > > Paul > > Joan Hall wrote: > > >Hello everyone, I am new to this list and my interest are > >TURNER Absalom born about 1838 at Speen Bucks according to the census. He > >married > >KEEN Sarah in 1859 at Aylesbury I found that on the freebmd. They had a > >daughter Sarah Ann who married > >HUNT John Malcolm in 1899 I have the marriage certificate. John was the son > >of Thomas a baker then a cattle man that is > > > >proven. Believe his father was David born Fulbrook Oxon > > Thomas was married to > >HODKINSON Elizabeth. Now her name has allsorts of spellings. Her parents > >were George and Elizabeth and that is where I grind to a halt. > >So I am looking for the baptism of Absolom TURNER about 1838 and if anyone > >else is working on theses families I would love to hear from you. Joan In > >Devon > > > > > >============================== > >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 22/02/05 > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Joan Found Absolam aged 4 in Aston Clinton. Parish: Aston Clinton Hamlet: St Leonard HO107/40/2 Sch.5 p6. South Park Absolam Turner 40, Farmer, Y Grace, 35, Y William, 17, Sawyer Y Nehimia? 15, Y Elizabeth, 10, Y Eve? 8, Y Ellen, 6, Y Absolam, 4, Y Victoria, 4mths Y Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Hall" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-BUCK] TURNER, KEEN, HUNT, HODGKINSON > Dear Paul thanks for this one I will keep in case and look into a > relationship between my Absalom Turner and William. Regards Joan in Devon > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

If I ever manage to get over there I will take a look at Dunderedge Farm. Regards Joan

Rejoining after a short break. If any listers are researching the above, I would welcome contact. -- Anne PICKETTS Waipu 0254 Northland NZ Phone/fax: 09 432-0045

Dear Paul thanks for this one I will keep in case and look into a relationship between my Absalom Turner and William. Regards Joan in Devon

In message <[email protected]>, Paul Irving <[email protected]> writes >According to the 1851 census, Absolom (spelt like that) was 14, so born >1836-7. Speen, as you say. > >No information about his parents, as he'd already moved out to work on >Dunderedge Farm, St. Leonards, farmer Mathew Hobbs. Beautiful early Tudor farmhouse, still in very good nick, owned by friend. The likely marriage place from here is Chesham RD. > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Thanks Paul, as you say the marriage certificate is the next step to be sure. As the 1851 only gave Sarah's mother it will give me her father as well. This list has been so helpful. Regards Joan in Devon

Here's a thing: there was only one other Absolom ("Absulam")Turner, in Bucks in 1851. Born Buckland, living Buckland. 1 year old. His father was William Turner, 27, sawyer born Princes Risborough. Maybe a relative of your Absolom? Married to Phoebe, & they had a daughter Trypena. Paul Joan Hall wrote: >Hello everyone, I am new to this list and my interest are >TURNER Absalom born about 1838 at Speen Bucks according to the census. He >married >KEEN Sarah in 1859 at Aylesbury I found that on the freebmd. They had a >daughter Sarah Ann who married >HUNT John Malcolm in 1899 I have the marriage certificate. John was the son >of Thomas a baker then a cattle man that is > >proven. Believe his father was David born Fulbrook Oxon > Thomas was married to >HODKINSON Elizabeth. Now her name has allsorts of spellings. Her parents >were George and Elizabeth and that is where I grind to a halt. >So I am looking for the baptism of Absolom TURNER about 1838 and if anyone >else is working on theses families I would love to hear from you. Joan In >Devon > > >============================== >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 22/02/05

According to the 1851 census, Absolom (spelt like that) was 14, so born 1836-7. Speen, as you say. No information about his parents, as he'd already moved out to work on Dunderedge Farm, St. Leonards, farmer Mathew Hobbs. FreeBMD gives the district, not the place. They may have married anywhere in Aylesbury district. I think there's a list on Genuki of parishes by district. The marriage certificate would give fathers names. By the way, Speen's in the civil parish of Princes Risborough. Can't see him in Speen in 1841. The only Turner boy about the right age is Free (yes, that's right), who's also in the 1851 census. Paul Joan Hall wrote: >Hello everyone, I am new to this list and my interest are >TURNER Absalom born about 1838 at Speen Bucks according to the census. He >married >KEEN Sarah in 1859 at Aylesbury I found that on the freebmd. They had a >daughter Sarah Ann who married >HUNT John Malcolm in 1899 I have the marriage certificate. John was the son >of Thomas a baker then a cattle man that is > >proven. Believe his father was David born Fulbrook Oxon > Thomas was married to >HODKINSON Elizabeth. Now her name has allsorts of spellings. Her parents >were George and Elizabeth and that is where I grind to a halt. >So I am looking for the baptism of Absolom TURNER about 1838 and if anyone >else is working on theses families I would love to hear from you. Joan In >Devon > > >============================== >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.4.0 - Release Date: 22/02/05