Carl, I can't help you with your query on the pub, but I am interested in the Netherton area. I have a MANTLE ancestor who was born in Netherton in 1838, and her father's occupation is shown as "Minor". Would he have been a coal miner? Were there coal mines in this area? If not, what other mines were there? Regards, Chris Adelaide -----Original Message----- From: Carl Higgs [mailto:cjhiggs@11vale.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2006 7:59 AM To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: 'Rose & Crown', Darby End, Netherton Hi, can anyone out there offer me any information about the old Rose and Crown public house, which stood on the corner of Double Row/Withymoor Road, at Darby End, Netherton. My ancestor Job Bird was recorded as a publican on the 1841 census, living along Northfield Road, Darby End. He died later the same year aged 56, and his widow Ann Bird (nee Gould) was next recorded living on the corner of Double Row, as a 'victualler' in 1851. This was the 'Rose and Crown' or its predecessor, as listed on the 1861 census. Ann Bird continued to run this pub until her death at the age of 85 in 1868. Thereafter, Job and Ann's unmarried daughter, Esther Bird, took over the Rose and Crown, until her own death in 1874. The pub then transferred into the hands of Esther's sister-in-law, Louisa Bird (widow of Esther's brother Benjamin) who was still there in 1891. By 1901, however, Louisa had moved in with her married daughter's family in nearby Gill Street. She died in 1910 and was buried along with the rest of the Bird family in St. Andrew's churchyard. This appears to have marked the end of the Bird family's associations with the Rose and Crown. The actual building is still standing but has been unsympathetically converted into flats. Any information concerning when the pub was built, whether the name changed, names of later licensees, and when it was delicensed, etc., gratefully received - also does anyone have a photo of it when it was still a pub? Yours hopefully Carl Higgs ______________________________