Carl, thank you, and your wife, for a very clear explanation of penal servitude as opposed to imprisonment. That was very interesting. As you may have seen me post before, I have been trying to find out more about the crime(s) of my grandmother's uncle, Thomas Baggott, b.1844. Maggie from our list recently informed me that the Criminal Registers are now available on Ancestry, so I quickly checked out my Thomas. There were four possible records for him, all larceny. They may not all be him. The first would have been when he was 9 years old, and the sentence was 6 calendar months of penal servitude. I think that must not be my Thomas. The next was when my Thomas would have been 35 (1879), and it notes that he was previously convicted. He was sentenced to 6 calendar months of penal servitude that time also. Still not sure that is my Thomas. The third record was in 1883, with Thomas Baggott being convicted of "larceny of fixtures" and sentenced to 6 calendar months of penal servitude. However, in the meantime, my Thomas Baggott, definitely him, was in Stafford Prison on the 1881 census. That doesn't fit with the Criminal Register reports. Finally, and definitely my Thomas Baggott, he was charged with larceny in 1885 but died in Stafford Prison on Mar 19. His trial record for Oct. 20, 1885, notes, "Prisoner died before commencement of Sessions". So I now have several questions. 1. Are there records of the trial proceedings or any other avenue of finding more detail on the crime and especially the specific identity of the criminal? Perhaps a court transcript would give hints as to his residence, age, etc.? 2. Did it take such a long time to get to trial that he could have been in Stafford Prison in 1881 awaiting this trial to take place in 1883? Would a six month sentence be from the time of sentencing or would it take time served into account? 3. What is meant by fixtures? My T. Baggott's mother's family were brass founders. Could he have been stealing scrap metal for them? I would be most grateful for any enlightenment anyone can give me. Appreciatively, Lois -----Original Message----- From: Carl Higgs <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 5:29 am Subject: Re: [Black Country] Penal Servitude and Imprisonment Hi Lois, I'm cribbing here from my wife, as she's the knowledgable one on this subject. Penal servitude (PS) was imprisonment with compulsory hard labour for those found guilty of a felony (serious criminal offence) such as physical assault, murder, rape, fraud, grand theft etc. These prisoners were incarcerated in the government run convict prisons, e.g. Pentonville for males, or Millbank for females. PS was introduced in 1853 as a substitute punishment for those criminals who would otherwise have been sentenced to transportation for less than 14 years. The minimum sentence was for three years PS, increased in 1864 to five years for a first offence and seven years for subsequent offences. Imprisonment without hard labour was for those found guilty of lesser crimes, such as petty theft, who were usually held in the local prisons (run by county justices until 1877, when all prisons came under government control). Hope this clarifies Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 6:42 AM Subject: [Black Country] Penal Servitude and Imprisonment > > Could someone please explain to me the difference between penal > servitude and imprisonment? Was it that the former had to do hard > labor and the latter could just rest in their cells? > Confused, Lois > ------------------------------------- > The only List that specifically covers the whole of the Black Country. Run > by Black Country folk who were born and still live in the area. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------- The only List that specifically covers the whole of the Black Country. Run by Black Country folk who were born and still live in the area. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message