Hi Ted and everybody, In their every day conversation when referring to a relative our ancestors (just as we do today) would have described the relationship e.g. "the wife's brother" or "my sister's son." The difference being that whereas we know the formal terminology used to define each of our relations in many cases our ancestor's did not know nor in fact did they need to know. Most working class people rarely had cause to write and often signed their own name with a cross so the only time they had to go through the inconvenience of coming up with unfamiliar words would be every ten years for the census. I have found that stepchildren were often entered on the census as son-in-law or daughter-in-law. It is easy to understand the heads of household's reasoning. After all if the wife's brother was the brother-in-law and the wife's father was father in-law then surely the wife's son was son-in-law. In my own tree I have a genuine daughter-in-law simply listed as "son's wife" and the grandchildren listed as "son's daughter" or "son's son." In another extended family the son's children are listed correctly as grandson/granddaughter but in the same large household the daughter's children have been listed as nephew or niece. Best wishes, Chris

>Or has that changed? No. That is what it has changed to in recent times. Formerly, on Census returns, "son in law" often meant what we would now call "step son." Ron S Original Message: ----------------- From: EDWARD SOUTHWICK ted.southwick@btinternet.com Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:27:33 +0100 To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B.C.] Collins Morning Polly, I cannot see that these two terms, "step son" and "son in law" are interchangeable. whilst I agree that both relationships are by marriage, surly there is a generation gap. In my book a step son in only created by a second marriage where the new wife or husband takes on not only a partner, but also the children of the partner's first marriage. Any son of the first marriage being a step son to the second wife/husband. On the other hand a son in law is simply the husband of a daughter. Or has that changed? Regards Ted. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [B.C.] Collins > Hi Anne > > "Son-in-law" in this case means what we would now call a "step-son" (ie > the > relationship is through marriage). > > So to find Mary's maiden name you need to locate her marriage to John > COLLINS between 1841 and 1851 and order the certificate. This should give > you her father's name, and hence her maiden name. > Polly > Polly Rubery > List admin: MIDMARCH-L@rootsweb.com > A genealogy and local history list covering the Counties of Brecon, > Hereford, Monmouth, Shropshire, Stafford and Worcester. > ENG-HEREFORD@rootsweb.com > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > ROWBERRY-L@rootsweb.com > ROWBERRY/RUBERY ONS - GOONS #278 > rowberry@one-name.org > http://www.rowberry.org > Webmaster for the Herefordshire Family History Society > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ukhfhs/index.html > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ianandanne@optusnet.com.au> > To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 4:02 AM > Subject: [B.C.] Collins > > > > Hi All, > > I know there are a few COLLINS family researchers out there and I'm hoping > that one of you can help me with this family. > > Found on the 1851 census- > Birmingham Rd, West Bromwich > John COLLINS, head, married, 73, nailor, West Bromwich > Mary Ann COLLINS, wife, married, 53, West Bromwich > James MARTIN, son-in-law, single, 32, general labourer, West Bromwich > William MARTIN, son-in-law, single, 32, engineer, West Bromwich > David MARTIN, son-in-law, single, 19, nail castor, West Bromwich > John James COLLINS, grandson, single, 4, at home, West Bromwich. > > I think that the David MARTIN listed is my 3G Grandfather, but I am trying > to work out the relationship to the COLLINS family. On the 1841 census > David > is listed with a Mary, James & William MARTIN, of course with no > relationships listed I'm just guessing that they may have all been > siblings > with the possiblity that Mary may have been the mother. > > So does anyone own this family and if you do, do you know the maiden name > of the wife? > > Thanks > Anne Sweetman > Brisbane, Australia > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > Wherever possible (except for personal messages) > please post replies to the list.Other people can learn from them! > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The B.C. List Admin is Dave Ogden :- > d.ogden@blueyonder.co.uk > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/321 - Release Date: 21/04/2006 > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

Morning Polly, I cannot see that these two terms, "step son" and "son in law" are interchangeable. whilst I agree that both relationships are by marriage, surly there is a generation gap. In my book a step son in only created by a second marriage where the new wife or husband takes on not only a partner, but also the children of the partner's first marriage. Any son of the first marriage being a step son to the second wife/husband. On the other hand a son in law is simply the husband of a daughter. Or has that changed? Regards Ted. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polly Rubery" <polly@rowberry.org> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [B.C.] Collins > Hi Anne > > "Son-in-law" in this case means what we would now call a "step-son" (ie > the > relationship is through marriage). > > So to find Mary's maiden name you need to locate her marriage to John > COLLINS between 1841 and 1851 and order the certificate. This should give > you her father's name, and hence her maiden name. > Polly > Polly Rubery > List admin: MIDMARCH-L@rootsweb.com > A genealogy and local history list covering the Counties of Brecon, > Hereford, Monmouth, Shropshire, Stafford and Worcester. > ENG-HEREFORD@rootsweb.com > A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford > ROWBERRY-L@rootsweb.com > ROWBERRY/RUBERY ONS - GOONS #278 > rowberry@one-name.org > http://www.rowberry.org > Webmaster for the Herefordshire Family History Society > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ukhfhs/index.html > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ianandanne@optusnet.com.au> > To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 4:02 AM > Subject: [B.C.] Collins > > > > Hi All, > > I know there are a few COLLINS family researchers out there and I'm hoping > that one of you can help me with this family. > > Found on the 1851 census- > Birmingham Rd, West Bromwich > John COLLINS, head, married, 73, nailor, West Bromwich > Mary Ann COLLINS, wife, married, 53, West Bromwich > James MARTIN, son-in-law, single, 32, general labourer, West Bromwich > William MARTIN, son-in-law, single, 32, engineer, West Bromwich > David MARTIN, son-in-law, single, 19, nail castor, West Bromwich > John James COLLINS, grandson, single, 4, at home, West Bromwich. > > I think that the David MARTIN listed is my 3G Grandfather, but I am trying > to work out the relationship to the COLLINS family. On the 1841 census > David > is listed with a Mary, James & William MARTIN, of course with no > relationships listed I'm just guessing that they may have all been > siblings > with the possiblity that Mary may have been the mother. > > So does anyone own this family and if you do, do you know the maiden name > of the wife? > > Thanks > Anne Sweetman > Brisbane, Australia > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > Wherever possible (except for personal messages) > please post replies to the list.Other people can learn from them! > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The B.C. List Admin is Dave Ogden :- > d.ogden@blueyonder.co.uk > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/321 - Release Date: 21/04/2006 > >

Hi Anne "Son-in-law" in this case means what we would now call a "step-son" (ie the relationship is through marriage). So to find Mary's maiden name you need to locate her marriage to John COLLINS between 1841 and 1851 and order the certificate. This should give you her father's name, and hence her maiden name. Polly Polly Rubery List admin: MIDMARCH-L@rootsweb.com A genealogy and local history list covering the Counties of Brecon, Hereford, Monmouth, Shropshire, Stafford and Worcester. ENG-HEREFORD@rootsweb.com A genealogy and local history list covering the County of Hereford ROWBERRY-L@rootsweb.com ROWBERRY/RUBERY ONS - GOONS #278 rowberry@one-name.org http://www.rowberry.org Webmaster for the Herefordshire Family History Society http://www.rootsweb.com/~ukhfhs/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: <ianandanne@optusnet.com.au> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 4:02 AM Subject: [B.C.] Collins Hi All, I know there are a few COLLINS family researchers out there and I'm hoping that one of you can help me with this family. Found on the 1851 census- Birmingham Rd, West Bromwich John COLLINS, head, married, 73, nailor, West Bromwich Mary Ann COLLINS, wife, married, 53, West Bromwich James MARTIN, son-in-law, single, 32, general labourer, West Bromwich William MARTIN, son-in-law, single, 32, engineer, West Bromwich David MARTIN, son-in-law, single, 19, nail castor, West Bromwich John James COLLINS, grandson, single, 4, at home, West Bromwich. I think that the David MARTIN listed is my 3G Grandfather, but I am trying to work out the relationship to the COLLINS family. On the 1841 census David is listed with a Mary, James & William MARTIN, of course with no relationships listed I'm just guessing that they may have all been siblings with the possiblity that Mary may have been the mother. So does anyone own this family and if you do, do you know the maiden name of the wife? Thanks Anne Sweetman Brisbane, Australia ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== Wherever possible (except for personal messages) please post replies to the list.Other people can learn from them!

Hello Ted, Polly, Anne, If, as Polly says, the Brothers Martin are stepsons, rather than sons-in-law, of John Collins, then the marriage of John Collins to Mary Ann Martin in 1846 would appear to be what is being sought. The marriage was registered at West Bromwich Register Office in the quarter ending 31st December 1846. The GRO reference is Vol 18, Page 78. David in Brierley Hill

Hi Woody, If you go to www.streetmap.co.uk and enter "Littles Lane" and highlight "Street" and then "Enter" you will be shown the only "Littles Lane" in the UK and it is in Wolverhampton, almost obliterated by the ring road, but it is still there. John Favill Brookfield, Wisconsin, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Woody" <woody.smallwood@ukonline.co.uk> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 4:17 PM Subject: [B.C.] Littles Lane, Wolverhampton > Does anyone know where Littles Lane, Wolverhampton is ? Can't locate it on > old-maps.co.uk and can't find my A-Z anywhere !! Have found a relative > living there on the 1871 census working as a shoemaker before they came to > Langley. > > many thanks > > Regards > Gay Smallwood > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The B.C. List Admin is Dave Ogden :- > d.ogden@blueyonder.co.uk >

Does anyone know where Littles Lane, Wolverhampton is ? Can't locate it on old-maps.co.uk and can't find my A-Z anywhere !! Have found a relative living there on the 1871 census working as a shoemaker before they came to Langley. many thanks Regards Gay Smallwood

Hi Marion I think we may have been in touch before re the Jewkes link, or am I mistaken? Regards Kay BILSTON (Whitwick, Leics) CANNEY (Witcham, Cambs) CLUFF/CLOUGH (Whaplode Drove, Lincs/Helpston, Northants) HARDING (Tydd St Giles/St Mary, Cambs/Mildenhall, Suffolk/Eckington/Doncaster ) HESELWOOD (Beighton, Derbyshire/Attercliffe Sheffield/Doncaster) HOLROYD (Attercliffe Sheffield/Doncaster) HULL (Welshes Dam, Cambs/Whitkirk. Leicestershire) JEWKES, (Dudley) JONES (Dudley, Worcs/Eckington/Doncaster) MALTPRESS (Witcham, Cambs) MAW(E) (Thorpe Hesley/Salvin, Notts/Attercliffe Sheffield) MINETT (Ely, Cambs) MOAKES (Eckington, Derbyshire/Treversall, Nottinghamshire) MORTON (Sheffield) NEWELL/NOWELL/NOWILL/NOEL (Walsall, Staffs./Eckington, Derbyshire/Doncaster) OKEY (Ely, Cambs) PAINTER (Wednesbury) PASHLEY (Swallownest/Parkgate Rotherham) PEMBLETON (Teversal/Farnsfield, Notts) REYNOLDS (Bury St Edmonds, Suffolk) ROBINSON (Walsall, Staffs) ROLLASON (Dudley) RUMBELOW (Cambridgeshire/Suffolk) SAXTON (Whiston, Yorks) SIMPKINS/SIMPKIN/SIMKINS (Witcham/Woodditton, Cambs.) SMITH (Maxey, Northants/ Whaplode Drove, Lincs/Doncaster) STUBLEY (Lincs/Cambs) SWANN (Sheffield) TURNER (Stokesley, Sheffield) WALLIS (Witham, Cambs) _____ From: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D-request@rootsweb.com [mailto:ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D-request@rootsweb.com] Sent: 16 April 2006 21:00 To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D@rootsweb.com Subject: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D Digest V06 #170 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 22/04/2006

Thank's Jean Ray

For all you patriots out there Bilston Community Association held a St.Georges Day celebration this weekend. My contribution aside from taking lots of photos and video footage was to prepare a Powerpoint Presentation. This can be freely downloaded from http://www.bilston.org to avoid infringing any copyright please do not redistribute this use it for your private entertainment only!

As we celebrate this St George's Day, think not what the politicians say but of those young men who have fought and died for the freedom of others. Rupert Brook summed it up in his poem "The soldier." If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a foreign field That is forever England.

Up here in Carlisle nothing just little old me and my flags. I rang Carlisle Castle and other places I think they didn't even know. Pauline F.

Hi Listers A very Happy St George's Day to everyone in England and the all English Ex-Pats. Cry God for Harry, England and Saint George! William Shakespeare (Henry V) All the best Ian -- Ian Beach Bunbury, Western Australia ian@sedgleymanor.com Website "The Ancient Manor of Sedgley" in Staffordshire at http://www.sedgleymanor.com Listowner ENG-STS-SEDGLEY at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/ENG-STS-SEDGLEY.html Researching: Sedgley, Staffordshire : ADDIS(S), BEACH, CASWELL, GUTT(E)RIDGE, HOPKINS, FLAVELL, MILLARD & TURLEY Darlaston, Staffordshire : FOSTER, ORME & YATES Shropshire : ADDIS(S), BEACH/BACHE, CASWELL

Yes, a Happy St. George's Day. Here in Michigan I am flying my red and white flag of England given me by Cassy. I'm not sure my neighbors know why, but it's out there! Keeping the Faith, Lois

Well done Doreen and to your son Wished I could get down to see it Love Cassy ----- Original Message ----- From: Petchey432@aol.com To: cassyfranklin@blueyonder.co.uk ; ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [B.C.] Happy St George's Day Got my Flag up Cass, my son has decorated his pub with red and white carnations. Very Nice. Love Doreen

Hi Harry I will certainly will , my Uncle Harry was one of those who never came back , and his last letter to his Môn was that most of the men from his reg The Worc had already died and he was one of the last few from the ordinals He died August 1915 his body was never found but he was given a grave He attended Chances School Oldbury then worked for Chances till joining the Worc, prior to going to Gallipoli he had spent 6 years abroad , they where given a fortnights leave at the out break of war and then sent abroad I don't know if any of you know buts Malta served has a Hospital to any one that was injured during the first world war in that area , and all the men who died there of there injuries are buried there , the graves are tended (even thou its a war grave cemetery ) by the people of Malta We owe Malta a great deal for there kindness to our men Cassy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Clulow" <harryandv@bfcov55.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: [B.C.] Gallipo;i > Tomorrow April 25th. is the day of remembrance of the Gallipolis campaign, > in memory of those that served there and for the many that never returned, > would you join with me in a moment of silence. > Harry Clulow Coventry. > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/320 - Release Date: 20/04/2006 > > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross > (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) > > >

Tomorrow April 25th. is the day of remembrance of the Gallipolis campaign, in memory of those that served there and for the many that never returned, would you join with me in a moment of silence. Harry Clulow Coventry. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/320 - Release Date: 20/04/2006

Hello Ray, These are held at Dudley Archives. From 1875 onwards, the registers are on microfiche, before that date on microfilm. You will need to phone the Archives to book a film reader as they do get very busy. Their telephone number is 01384 812770, but are closed on Monday and Wednesday. Regards Jean > Could SKS tell me if the Baptismal records of the above church are available > to view,and where > Ray Thank you

My grandfather swore by Friars Balsam on sugar for colds. It seems a dangerous practice now as on the bottles of Friars Balsam it states "not to be ingested" i.e. not to be eaten. Yvonne Derbyshire -----Original Message----- From: Alan Wilson [mailto:alanandmo@btinternet.com] Sent: 17 April 2006 09:13 To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B.C.] What is GOLDEN SYRUP ?? Back in the 40s and 50s, we had 'Friars Balsam' on sugar, usually on a sugar cube. It left your teeth and tongue with a coating of yellow 'gunge'. but quite an enjoyable taste. Whether it did any good or not I don't know. I think you can still buy 'Friars Balsam'. Alan. ______________________________ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 22/04/06

My grandfather swore by sugared onion for coughs which sounds dreadful but does actually work. My father and I have continued this "tradition". Yvonne Derbyshire -----Original Message----- From: Susan M Wood [mailto:sueandsteve@susanwood.wanadoo.co.uk] Sent: 17 April 2006 08:55 To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B.C.] What is GOLDEN SYRUP ?? My Grandmother used to roll a cube of butter in sugar and make you suck it for a cough. It worked in as much as you dared not cough again for fear of getting another one. Also,she used to keep a pot of tea simmering on the stove until it was nicely stewed,and then add a good dollop of Carnation evaporated milk.Sickly or what? Sue. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.2/314 - Release Date: 16/04/2006 ______________________________ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 22/04/06