Hi Cassy Further to your quest to find 'Who paid for the funeral' Apparently all the records for the cemeteries and crematoria in Sandwell are kept at West Bromwich Crematorium and these can be searched by the public during office hours. There is a fee if the staff do it.(£25) (See Sandwell Council Website - Bereavement Services) BUT this wont necessarily tell you who paid for the funeral. You would need the archives for the funeral director involved for that info. What I suggest is that you phone West Broom. Crem. and ask a) what info you do get from their records b) if they know anything about funeral directors archives and if & where they are kept. I've had a look at the A2A catalogue for Sandwell Archives but can't spot anything to do with funeral directors. Jack Lee & Sons, as mentioned previously, doesn't exsist any more. It was taken over and probably taken over again since. www.historicaldirectories.org (when you can get on to it) will probably have a directory in the right time frame where you can search for the list of funeral directors in Oldbury. Let us know how you get on, All the best. Pat

Thanks Paul for your speedy and most helpful response. My main area of research is Shropshire and I am trying to track a few "emigrants" to the West Midlands so the site you mention will be most helpful - I was not aware of its existence. I must admit that I had not tried the IGI as I have never found it very helpful for marriages. Thanks again John

John: Two possibilities: Firstly, both FreeBMD and Ancestry are the same project. the project is still in progress and not all marriages (or births or deaths) have been transcribed. Second, the GRO index contains errors and omissions, and this might be one of them. there's not a lot you can do about either of these. However the good news is that the local register office data for Dudley is also on line for this period at West Midlands BMD: http://www.bmsgh.org/wmbmd/index.html. This shows that in 1862 John SANDS married Mary WALTON at Rowley Regis St Giles, and that in 1859 Thomas SANDS married Sarah A, NIGHTINGALE at Dudley St Thomas. Both marriages are also in the IGI on line at the LDS site. Best wishes Paul Prescott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yahoo" <ejohnsands@yahoo.co.uk> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:57 PM Subject: [B.C.] DUDLEY BDM Hi Listers I wonder if someone can help me with the GRO marriage index for Dudley. According to both Ancestry.com and FreeBDM only three people were married in 1862 Q2 under reference Dudley 6c 120 - John Sands, Benjamin Guest and Eliza Burgess. Unless it was a ménage a trois I would expect to see a fourth (female) person, hopefully John's wife Mary. Similarly in Q1 1859 under reference Dudley 6c 50 there are again three people - Charles Brant, Mary Ann Clifton and Thomas Sands. I would expect to see a fourth (female) person, hopefully Thomas's wife Sarah. As well as following the links from John and Thomas I have tried searching for the whole year by reference number. This shows 13 names in 1862 and 16 in 1859 (but one is repeated so therefore only 15 people). Any suggestions please? TIA John ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== Wherever possible (except for personal messages) please post replies to the list.Other people can learn from them!

According to http://www.bmsgh.org West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1859 SANDS Thomas NIGHTINGALE Sarah A Dudley, St Thomas Dudley 204/018/7 Regards Geoff Goddard

Hi Listers I wonder if someone can help me with the GRO marriage index for Dudley. According to both Ancestry.com and FreeBDM only three people were married in 1862 Q2 under reference Dudley 6c 120 - John Sands, Benjamin Guest and Eliza Burgess. Unless it was a ménage a trois I would expect to see a fourth (female) person, hopefully John's wife Mary. Similarly in Q1 1859 under reference Dudley 6c 50 there are again three people - Charles Brant, Mary Ann Clifton and Thomas Sands. I would expect to see a fourth (female) person, hopefully Thomas's wife Sarah. As well as following the links from John and Thomas I have tried searching for the whole year by reference number. This shows 13 names in 1862 and 16 in 1859 (but one is repeated so therefore only 15 people). Any suggestions please? TIA John

Hi Keith, They also have a branch in Hill Tip. Doreen

Patsy wrote: Here's a tip if you are looking for Oldbury town/Rounds Green on the all new, all singing, all dancing 1841census on Ancestry. It's hiding at Shropshire-Halesowen- Districts 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A. Lots of places "moved" from one county to another (or in the case of Tamworth were in two at the same time!). It is worth checking out http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Boundaries.html John

Hi, I believe that St. George was the patron saint of sailors, and as Brits, weren't most of our ancestors at some time - sailors? Regards, Marion ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Adams" <martin@adams3606.fsnet.co.uk> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [B.C.] Happy Saint George's Day > Just a pity St George wasn't English.....I'm sure there must have been a > more suitable candidate?? Anyone know why we adopted him? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "EDWARD SOUTHWICK" <ted.southwick@btinternet.com> > To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 4:31 PM > Subject: [B.C.] Happy Saint George's Day > > >> As we celebrate this St George's Day, think not what the politicians say >> but of those young men who have fought and died for the freedom of >> others. Rupert Brook summed it up in his poem "The soldier." >> If I should die, think only this of me: >> That there's some corner of a foreign field >> That is forever England. >> >> >> ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== >> The B.C. List Admin is Dave Ogden :- >> d.ogden@blueyonder.co.uk >> >> >> > > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > Wherever possible (except for personal messages) > please post replies to the list.Other people can learn from them! > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.0/325 - Release Date: 4/26/2006 > >

Hi Kay, Yup I think you're right. Have you done anything more on the JEWKES line? I cannot locate anything on the marriage of James PLANT & Sarah JEWKES. No-one seems able to locate their marriage certificate. If they were both from Tipton (close to Burnt Tree area), where would they probably have gotten married? Perhaps at St. Michael's or St. Edmund's perhaps? What would've been the closest church to Tipton area not considered in the Dudley Registration District? My certificate guy has done a search but Dudley says that they cannot locate the marriage certificate on the day that is mentioned in the IGI. Another mystery! Oh well, keep on trucking! All the best, Marion ----- Original Message ----- From: "kay-uk" <kay-uk@btconnect.com> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: [B.C.] RE: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D Digest V06 #170 > Hi Marion > > > > I think we may have been in touch before re the Jewkes link, or am I > mistaken? > > > > Regards > > Kay > > > > BILSTON (Whitwick, Leics) CANNEY (Witcham, Cambs) > > > CLUFF/CLOUGH (Whaplode Drove, Lincs/Helpston, Northants) > > HARDING (Tydd St Giles/St Mary, Cambs/Mildenhall, > Suffolk/Eckington/Doncaster ) HESELWOOD (Beighton, Derbyshire/Attercliffe > Sheffield/Doncaster) > > HOLROYD (Attercliffe Sheffield/Doncaster) HULL (Welshes > Dam, Cambs/Whitkirk. Leicestershire) JEWKES, (Dudley) > JONES (Dudley, Worcs/Eckington/Doncaster) MALTPRESS (Witcham, Cambs) > MAW(E) (Thorpe Hesley/Salvin, Notts/Attercliffe Sheffield) MINETT > (Ely, Cambs) > > MOAKES (Eckington, Derbyshire/Treversall, Nottinghamshire) MORTON > (Sheffield) > > NEWELL/NOWELL/NOWILL/NOEL (Walsall, Staffs./Eckington, > Derbyshire/Doncaster) > > OKEY (Ely, Cambs) PAINTER (Wednesbury) PASHLEY > (Swallownest/Parkgate > Rotherham) > > PEMBLETON (Teversal/Farnsfield, Notts) REYNOLDS (Bury St Edmonds, > Suffolk) > > ROBINSON (Walsall, Staffs) ROLLASON (Dudley) > > > RUMBELOW (Cambridgeshire/Suffolk) SAXTON > (Whiston, Yorks) > > SIMPKINS/SIMPKIN/SIMKINS (Witcham/Woodditton, Cambs.) > > SMITH (Maxey, Northants/ Whaplode Drove, Lincs/Doncaster) > > STUBLEY (Lincs/Cambs) SWANN (Sheffield) > TURNER (Stokesley, Sheffield) > > WALLIS (Witham, Cambs) > > > > _____ > > From: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D-request@rootsweb.com > [mailto:ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D-request@rootsweb.com] > Sent: 16 April 2006 21:00 > To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D@rootsweb.com > Subject: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D Digest V06 #170 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 22/04/2006 > > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross > (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 4/22/2006 > >

Hello Cassy Just had a squint at some family funeral cards in my possession. The family was from Rounds Green, Oldbury and the funerals took place in the late 1930's. The burials were at Rood End Cemetery and the Funeral Directors were Jack Lee and Sons of Oldbury. One of the cards has Webb and Sons Oldbury on it but I don't know if that was the funeral director or the printers. I don't know if Jack Lee & Sons are still trading but they certainly were up to the late seventies when my Nan died. I have a brother in the trade I'll ask if he knows. All the best Pat

I've only just caught up on messages so probably someone has already answered this, but in Sense & Sensibility the 2nd wife and her daughters are leaving their home because the inheritance has passed to the son of the first wife. So John Dashwood is Mrs Dashwood's step son Tracy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <snape@cix.co.uk> > To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:55 AM > Subject: RE: [B.C.] stepchildren etc. > > >> And what are we to make of the relationship in this quotation: >> >> No sooner was her answer dispatched, than Mrs. Dashwood indulged herself >> in >> the pleasure of announcing to her son-in-law and his wife that she was >> provided with a house, and should incommode them no longer than till > every >> thing were ready for her inhabiting it. They heard her with surprise. > Mrs. >> John Dashwood said nothing; but her husband civilly hoped that she would >> not be settled far from Norland. She had great satisfaction in replying >> that she was going into Devonshire.--Edward turned hastily towards her, > on >> hearing this, and, in a voice of surprise and concern, which required no >> explanation to her, repeated, "Devonshire! Are you, indeed, going there? >> So >> far from hence! And to what part of it?" She explained the situation. It >> was within four miles northward of Exeter. >> >> Jane Austen, Sense and Sensibility >> >> What was Mrs Dashwood's relationship to her son-in-law's wife? >> >> Ron S >> > > > > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The B.C. List Admin is Dave Ogden :- > d.ogden@blueyonder.co.uk > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross > (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) > >

In a message dated 4/26/2006 3:54:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, snape@cix.co.uk writes: >Could it not be that she was the mother of John Dashwood's previous wife. So that the maiden name of John Dashwood's previous wife was also Dashwood? This is almost like a real-life genealogical puzzle (such as one might find in a census return, perhaps?). Ron S Oh, dear, no, Ron. You must be referring to my Baggott line which conspired to confuse me by having Baggotts marrying Baggotts! I thought Mrs. Dashwood referred to John's wife, and was not the name of his mother-in-law. Then again, they could be related to my Baggott line. :) Cheers, Lois

Hi All, Thank you to everyone for their input regarding my query on this family. Though I must say I didn't mean to start an argument on the term son-in-law. I know it can have the meaning that we associate with it now and also mean the son of the wife. I was just trying to find out if anyone owned this family and could tell me if the wife was indeed Mary MARTIN prior to her marriage. It would save me barking up the wrong tree if it was not the case. I guess I'll just have to save my penny's and order the marriage certificate. Thanks again everyone. Anne Brisbane, Australia

So Mrs Dashwood's son-in-law is her step son. Ron S Original Message: ----------------- From: Tracy Little jandt@cennick.fsnet.co.uk Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:25:05 +0100 To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B.C.] stepchildren etc. I've only just caught up on messages so probably someone has already answered this, but in Sense & Sensibility the 2nd wife and her daughters are leaving their home because the inheritance has passed to the son of the first wife. So John Dashwood is Mrs Dashwood's step son Tracy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <snape@cix.co.uk> > To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:55 AM > Subject: RE: [B.C.] stepchildren etc. > > >> And what are we to make of the relationship in this quotation: >> >> No sooner was her answer dispatched, than Mrs. Dashwood indulged herself >> in >> the pleasure of announcing to her son-in-law and his wife that she was >> provided with a house, and should incommode them no longer than till > every >> thing were ready for her inhabiting it. They heard her with surprise. > Mrs. >> John Dashwood said nothing; but her husband civilly hoped that she would >> not be settled far from Norland. She had great satisfaction in replying >> that she was going into Devonshire.--Edward turned hastily towards her, > on >> hearing this, and, in a voice of surprise and concern, which required no >> explanation to her, repeated, "Devonshire! Are you, indeed, going there? >> So >> far from hence! And to what part of it?" She explained the situation. It >> was within four miles northward of Exeter. >> >> Jane Austen, Sense and Sensibility >> >> What was Mrs Dashwood's relationship to her son-in-law's wife? >> >> Ron S >> > > > > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The B.C. List Admin is Dave Ogden :- > d.ogden@blueyonder.co.uk > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross > (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

>Could it not be that she was the mother of John Dashwood's previous wife. So that the maiden name of John Dashwood's previous wife was also Dashwood? This is almost like a real-life genealogical puzzle (such as one might find in a census return, perhaps?). Ron S Original Message: ----------------- From: MaAisha@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:11:25 EDT To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [B.C.] stepchildren etc. Hi Ron and Ted, Could it not be that she was the mother of John Dashwood's previous wife. Perhaps she was living with her daughter and her son-in-law when the daughter died. The second marriage may have been resented by the mother-in-law and she wanted to move out so she would be independent of them. Might be that she thought her son-in-law had a hand in getting rid of her daughter. Guessing. Have not read the book. Too much imagination. :) Regards, Lois In a message dated 4/25/2006 4:27:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ted.southwick@btinternet.com writes: Hi Ron, If you get on to English Literature you will lose me completely. I think my final School Report said something like " He has no inclination to understand the finer points of the English Language". Regards Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: <snape@cix.co.uk> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: RE: [B.C.] stepchildren etc. > And what are we to make of the relationship in this quotation: > > No sooner was her answer dispatched, than Mrs. Dashwood indulged herself > in > the pleasure of announcing to her son-in-law and his wife that she was > provided with a house, and should incommode them no longer than till every > thing were ready for her inhabiting it. They heard her with surprise. Mrs. > John Dashwood said nothing; but her husband civilly hoped that she would > not be settled far from Norland. She had great satisfaction in replying > that she was going into Devonshire.--Edward turned hastily towards her, on > hearing this, and, in a voice of surprise and concern, which required no > explanation to her, repeated, "Devonshire! Are you, indeed, going there? > So > far from hence! And to what part of it?" She explained the situation. It > was within four miles northward of Exeter. > > Jane Austen, Sense and Sensibility > > What was Mrs Dashwood's relationship to her son-in-law's wife? > > Ron S > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== The B.C. List Admin is Dave Ogden :- d.ogden@blueyonder.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

Dear All, St. George was introduced to England by returning crusaders in the 12th and 13th centuries. He became especially popular in the 14th Century when the Order of the Garter was founded (dedicated to St. George). Previously the Patron Saint of England had been St. Edward the Confessor d1065, buried (still) in Westminster Abbey. Chris (S. Wales) Interested in SHELDON, PARKES and HODGETTS

Hi All Does anyone know who the local undertakers where in the early 1900-1940s in Oldbury Trying to find out who buried my grandmother at Roodend or has any one got any idea how I could find out Cheers Cassy

Patsy: Yes, most of the historic parish of Halesowen, including Oldbury town, was in Shropshire in 1841. However there were several islands within Halesowen parish that were part of Worcestershire, although most of these contained few or no inhabitants. One of the more significant of them was the hamlet of Warley Wigorn (short for Wigorniensis, meaning "of Worcester" in Latin) which was a separate place from Warley Salop. The situation was all tidied up in 1844 when it all became Worcestershire, and Oldbury was created as a separate free-standing parish. Best wishes Paul Prescott Oldbury born and bred, now living in Scotland. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROGER" <roger@rhmiddleton.fsnet.co.uk> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:06 AM Subject: [B.C.] Oldbury-1841census > Hi listers > > Here's a tip if you are looking for Oldbury town/Rounds Green on the all > new, all singing, all dancing 1841census on Ancestry. > It's hiding at Shropshire-Halesowen- Districts 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A. > Where it gives you the option Halesowen or Oldbury - choose Oldbury and > this seems to give you Langley/Tatbank etc. > > Hope this saves folks the precious time that I've just wasted! > > All the best > Patsy > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross > (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) > >

Hi Ron and Ted, Could it not be that she was the mother of John Dashwood's previous wife. Perhaps she was living with her daughter and her son-in-law when the daughter died. The second marriage may have been resented by the mother-in-law and she wanted to move out so she would be independent of them. Might be that she thought her son-in-law had a hand in getting rid of her daughter. Guessing. Have not read the book. Too much imagination. :) Regards, Lois In a message dated 4/25/2006 4:27:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ted.southwick@btinternet.com writes: Hi Ron, If you get on to English Literature you will lose me completely. I think my final School Report said something like " He has no inclination to understand the finer points of the English Language". Regards Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: <snape@cix.co.uk> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: RE: [B.C.] stepchildren etc. > And what are we to make of the relationship in this quotation: > > No sooner was her answer dispatched, than Mrs. Dashwood indulged herself > in > the pleasure of announcing to her son-in-law and his wife that she was > provided with a house, and should incommode them no longer than till every > thing were ready for her inhabiting it. They heard her with surprise. Mrs. > John Dashwood said nothing; but her husband civilly hoped that she would > not be settled far from Norland. She had great satisfaction in replying > that she was going into Devonshire.--Edward turned hastily towards her, on > hearing this, and, in a voice of surprise and concern, which required no > explanation to her, repeated, "Devonshire! Are you, indeed, going there? > So > far from hence! And to what part of it?" She explained the situation. It > was within four miles northward of Exeter. > > Jane Austen, Sense and Sensibility > > What was Mrs Dashwood's relationship to her son-in-law's wife? > > Ron S >

Hi Jackie On the 1841 & 1851 census at Hednesford, Cannock I have found a George & Caroline Benton with a daughter Eliza born 1840. On the 1861 census in Mill Lane I have found, at RG9/1982 Folio9 Page11, a John & Mary Benton with a daughter Elizabeth aged 20. This would seem the best bet. On the web site http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk in 1865 I found George & Elizabeth's marriage at St Lukes, Cannock. You can down load a form to order the marriage cert. which will give you Elizabeth's father's name. In 1881 Rg11 piece 2783 Folio 68 Page 19 Cottage, Hednesford Rd, Cannock Joseph Bould H Whitesmith 43 Elizabeth wife 39 John son 5 Bessie Dau 3 All born Cannock Next door Mary Bould Head Widow 64 Retired Beer House Keeper Born Coven,Staffs Sarah Reeve Grand Dau 10 Born Cannock. I hope this helps Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaquie Cook" <jcook28@csc.com> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: [B.C.] BOULD - BENTON - Cannock > > > > > > Hi All > > I wonder if anyone would be good enough to look up on the census' the > following for me: > > Elizabeth Benton > b. Abt. 1842 > If she can be found on the 1841 census then I have her parents name. I > believe she is from Cannock. > > marr. abt. 1865 > > Joseph Bould > b. 3.12.1838 Cannock > > When I had the free 14 days subscription to ancestry.com I struggled to > find either of these two once they married. I think they are from the > Cannock area. I can trace Joseph Bould until he marries then I can > continue to trace his mother Mary Bould nee Sellman who ran the Black Horse > pub on Mill Street Cannock for many many years. Her family also ran > Sellman's Funeral Parlour which I believe is still in Cannock. > > Any help will be appreciated. > > Kind regards > > Jaquie > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross > (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) > >