Pre Dr. Beeching (those abroad may have to google him), Snow Hill Station Birmingham was the GWR mainline station for the East side of the Black Country, it was a fantastic place (apart from the starlings that used to roost in the frontage <g>). Snow Hill, after many years of disuse, is now returning to life and expanding, albeit without the wonderful architecture, but that's another story......... It was one of the few places that one (especially our ancestors) could tell what the coming weather would be by the smell as soon as one walked out onto Colmore Row. If one could smell chocolate, the wind was blowing Westerly from Cadburys (in Bournville) and rain was on the way. If one could smell spices the wind was blowing Easterly from the HP SAUCE factory in Aston with fine weather resulting. I don't think that in future the smell from HP will carry across the North Sea from foreign parts or even taste the same! It's all double dutch to me! Looks as if it's back to cooking our own BC home-made chutney and ignoring Heinz! Has anyone any recipes for chutney/brown sauce that might beat mine and take the place of the new Heinz concoction when it moves aboad? Dave Angry of Wednesbury England List Admin:- Black Country etc.,

Well, The wonderful old 1864 Blue Brick building is no more! Another important part of our Black Country heritage has been thrown away to the developers wrecking ball for short term gain! I wonder how many of our ancestors were "guests" in that building? Quite a few I should imagine. I took a number of photgraphs of it whilst still in use, just prior to demolition. If you would like a copy of one, email me off-list and I'll oblige. Copyright will be retained by me so it's for your own use only (please don't put it onto a website or into a book). You can either have a side-view taking in the whole building or a front view (which shows the Staffordshire Knot) but cuts off part. Also, if anyone has any links with the Courthouse Pub which was opposite, and would like a pic that was taken at the same time, let me know as above and I'll forward a copy on. Dave 8-( Wednesbury England List Admin: Black Country etc.,

Hi all, Been an age since I posted (sorry <g>). The original pub was built around 1838 and was refurbed greatly in 1907. The original ain't much like what stood for most of the 20th Century. According to my info, originally from the CRO , the licensee in 1839 was Mrs. T. Bird. Esther Bird was licensee until 1873 (that goes in with your info). A William Dunn took it on in 1898 and he kept the pub until mid 1910 when John French took over. The pub became a managed/tenanted (bad note taking on my part, blunt pencils in CRO's and all that!) house owned by Holts Brewery of Birmingham (can't read my notes but I think it was in 1919). I think that it ended up with Ansells Brewery of Birmingham. I do have a pity grotty photo of the place as a pub if you're interested. Dave Wedesbury England List Admin: Black Country etc., -----Original Message----- From: Carl Higgs [mailto:cjhiggs@11vale.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 22 May 2006 23:29 To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [B.C.] 'Rose & Crown', Darby End, Netherton Hi, can anyone out there offer me any information about the old Rose and Crown public house, which stood on the corner of Double Row/Withymoor Road, at Darby End, Netherton. <SNIP>

Ray, I'm not descended from any CORBETT, but I have one that married into my WHITEHOUSE line: Thomas CORBETT (son of Thomas CORBETT, Boatman) married Elizabeth WHITEHOUSE (daughter of Abraham WHITEHOUSE, Enginman) 7 January 1850 at Tipton Parish Church in the presence of Geo. WHITEHOUSE and Mary WHITEHOUSE (Elizabeth's brother and mother). 1851 Census Thomas (31, Labourer) and Elizabeth CORBETT (30, Nailer) were living with Elizabeth's mother at Lower Green, Tipton - no children 1861 Census At Lock Side, Tipton was Thomas (41, Boatman) and Elizabeth (41, Nailmaker) CORBETT with three children: Esther Ann (9), Hannah (6) and Lydia (4). They were preceeded on the schedule by Thomas CORBETT (Widower, 68, Watchman Furnaces) living alone and presumably the father. Next on schedule was the Woodman Inn, Lock Side. 1871 Census (I haven't looked for them on this census) 1881 Census At 20 New Cross St., Tipton was Thomas (60, Labourer) and Elizabeth (60) CORBETT with no children. Paul, Maryland, USA -- Researching Black Country names: WHITEHOUSE, DAVIS, LEES, SPITTLE, SMALL, DITHERIDGE, BEDDOW, TAYLOR, ASTON, ATTWOOD, RICHARDS, PEERS, WRIGHT. Info on these can be viewed at: http://home.comcast.net/~whitehouse-family/ (best viewed in Mac OS X)

just a bit oh humour scotland has solved the water shortage they are drinking there whisky neat untill the droughts over sue

I've just watched "Never Mind the Full Stops", a programme about the use and abuse of the English language. They showed a clip of what they said was Dudley dialect (although I think it may have been more Brierley Hill way because of some of the words used), and translated the word "fode" as "field". They obviously thought it was a mispronunciation of "fold", an archaic word for field. As we all know, it refers to the back yard of a court of houses. I've emailed the programme producers to enlighten them! My nan used to exhort me regularly to "onny play in the fode,not in the ossrode". Now the nearest field to our house in Smethwick was probably 6 miles away, and I'm sure she didn't refer to that! -- Chris Ramsbottom researching: BARRATT, DANCER, FELLOWS, GOODES, ROBINSON, TUCKLEY, WHEWAY MAHER all in and around Birmingham/Smethwick, 1850 to present day

Gillian Do your interests include a William WHITEHOUSE, born c.1856 in Tipton? According to the 1891 census, he was a mining engineer who married Harriet, had 4 daughters and a son and moved to Walsall between 1886 and 1888. I am interested in him because he set up in partnership to develop a colliery near Walsall with my great grandfather, Isaac Stanley in 1876. Best wishes Graham ----- Original Message ----- From: "GILLIAN CASH" <geminilady10@btinternet.com> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 10:49 PM Subject: [B.C.] INTERESTS > Hi All, > > Just returned from holiday so here are my interests again. > > BACHE/BEACH/BACHE - Brierley Hill, Kingswinford, Dudley areas. > BAYLISS - West Bromwich and Tipton > BEDFORD - Brierley Hill > BLINCOW/BLINCOE - West Bromwich, Tipton and Smethwick. > BODEN - Tipton, West Bromwich > CASH - West Bromwich and Tipton areas > COMPSON - Kingswinford, Dudley areas > DUNN - > DREW - Dudley areas > GRICE - Dudley areas > GUISE - Brierley Hill areas > HOLT - Brierley Hill, Dudley > HUGHES - Brierley Hill, Dudley > HUNT - Brierley Hill, Bromsgrove > JONES - Brierley Hill > MAWBY - West Bromwich, Tipton and Crick, Northamptonshire > MERRIMAN/MERRIMEN > NEWTON - Brierley Hill > PAINTER - Dudley areas > PEARSON - Brierley Hill > PRICE - Brierley Hill, Dudley > REYNOLDS - Brierley Hill > RUSHTON/RUSHTON - Tipton, West Bromwich, Brierley Hill > TANTRUM - Quarry Bank, Brierley Hill and Shropshire > TRUEMAN - Brierley Hill, Dudley > WASSALL - Brierley Hill > WHITEHOUSE - Tipton, West Bromwich > WILKINSON - Tipton, Monmouthshire > WOOD - Brierley Hill > > > > > Best Wishes > Gill > > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross > (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) > >

Hello Carl This was still a pub called the Rose & Crown in the mid 70's because as young teachers (some of us lodging near by) we used to drink there. It was within MSD (Maximum Staggering Distance!) The gaffer was a Scotsman called Alex. I think it was converted to flats sometime during the late eighties. I agree about the unsympathetic bit. I don't think that it's ever been a popular dwelling place and regularly has the downstairs windows put through. You've set me thinking now about some of the other denizens that used to frequent (or is it haunt) the place. If I remember anything else I'll let you know. All the best Patsy

Gillian, Could you let me know some data on your BACHEs- to see if we have a connection TIA Marlene

Hi Gill, I note you have a PAINTER, Dudley areas listed in your interests. My wife has PAINTERs as Mother, Grandfather, Great Grandfather in the Dudley area mainly Brierley Hill: Mother, Elizabeth May PAINTER b 1900 Grandfather, William John PAINTER b about 1873 GrGrandfather, John PAINTER. b about 1846 Don't know if there is any connection. Best regards, Vic Kent, UK

Hi, can anyone out there offer me any information about the old Rose and Crown public house, which stood on the corner of Double Row/Withymoor Road, at Darby End, Netherton. My ancestor Job Bird was recorded as a publican on the 1841 census, living along Northfield Road, Darby End. He died later the same year aged 56, and his widow Ann Bird (nee Gould) was next recorded living on the corner of Double Row, as a 'victualler' in 1851. This was the 'Rose and Crown' or its predecessor, as listed on the 1861 census. Ann Bird continued to run this pub until her death at the age of 85 in 1868. Thereafter, Job and Ann's unmarried daughter, Esther Bird, took over the Rose and Crown, until her own death in 1874. The pub then transferred into the hands of Esther's sister-in-law, Louisa Bird (widow of Esther's brother Benjamin) who was still there in 1891. By 1901, however, Louisa had moved in with her married daughter's family in nearby Gill Street. She died in 1910 and was buried along with the rest of the Bird family in St. Andrew's churchyard. This appears to have marked the end of the Bird family's associations with the Rose and Crown. The actual building is still standing but has been unsympathetically converted into flats. Any information concerning when the pub was built, whether the name changed, names of later licensees, and when it was delicensed, etc., gratefully received - also does anyone have a photo of it when it was still a pub? Yours hopefully Carl Higgs

Hi All, Just returned from holiday so here are my interests again. BACHE/BEACH/BACHE - Brierley Hill, Kingswinford, Dudley areas. BAYLISS - West Bromwich and Tipton BEDFORD - Brierley Hill BLINCOW/BLINCOE - West Bromwich, Tipton and Smethwick. BODEN - Tipton, West Bromwich CASH - West Bromwich and Tipton areas COMPSON - Kingswinford, Dudley areas DUNN - DREW - Dudley areas GRICE - Dudley areas GUISE - Brierley Hill areas HOLT - Brierley Hill, Dudley HUGHES - Brierley Hill, Dudley HUNT - Brierley Hill, Bromsgrove JONES - Brierley Hill MAWBY - West Bromwich, Tipton and Crick, Northamptonshire MERRIMAN/MERRIMEN NEWTON - Brierley Hill PAINTER - Dudley areas PEARSON - Brierley Hill PRICE - Brierley Hill, Dudley REYNOLDS - Brierley Hill RUSHTON/RUSHTON - Tipton, West Bromwich, Brierley Hill TANTRUM - Quarry Bank, Brierley Hill and Shropshire TRUEMAN - Brierley Hill, Dudley WASSALL - Brierley Hill WHITEHOUSE - Tipton, West Bromwich WILKINSON - Tipton, Monmouthshire WOOD - Brierley Hill Best Wishes Gill

Does anyone on list have any Corbett's of Tipton or Dudley in their tree Ray

looking for any connection to Caroline Allen and Thomas Hall Brewood Shareshill Calfheath Hatherton Caroline Allen born11April 1832 Hatherton Penkridge Staffs Death aprox1891 Brewood Married Thomas Hall 28Dec 1852 Barry Allen

They certainly do and it's not just London that sells haggis - I buy mine at anytime of year in either Marks and Spencer or Sainsburys or even Asda and I live in Warwickshire! and being half Scottish, I was bought up on it. Very nice with brown sauce - HP of course!! Maggs -------Original Message------- From: FCASKEY@aol.com Date: 29 April 2006 08:37:18 To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [B.C.] OFF TOPIC - Haggis Yes, people really eat Haggis. Ask a Scotsman what they eat on Burns night and piping the Haggis in. There is even a poem to the Haggis by Robert Burns In fact they are getting more popular. You can even buy then in the supermarkets down near London. Also remember the neeps and tates to go with the Haggis. Fiona Caskey X-Message: #1 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:22:26 -0400 From: "john/tina edwards" <jedwards14@neo.rr.com> To: ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <000a01c66abe$6985ba60$030aa8c0@same25r090xrgo> Subject: OFF TOPIC:Haggis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I apologize for being off topic. You can send me answers off list but I have to ask.On a other list I'm on there is the question of: 101 Things to do with Haggis. First off do people really eat this?! It just doesn't sound very ummmm good. Also what would you do with it? Some suggestions have been doorstop,cat food,dog food, and so on. Again you can answer off list at jedwards14@neo.rr.com Thanks all for reading this Tina in Ohio ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== The B.C. List Admin is Dave Ogden :- d.ogden@blueyonder.co.uk .

Hi Leslie, My grandmother was Elizabeth Wilkinson,born in Kingswinford in 1905.Her mother was Louisa Wilkinson born abt 1878-9 in the Dudley area.Louisa was unmarried but in 1934 she did marry George Parker.Elizabeth (my grandmother) married John Cox in 1924. I am currently researching a Wilkinson family listed on the 1881 Census as living at 19 Porter St,Dudley. Head is: George WILKINSON 33 Vice (tool) Maker Elizabeth WILKINSON wife 33 Tailoress Edward WILKINSON 13 son24 Thomas WILKINSON 11 son Mary Ann WILKINSON 10 daur Edith WILKINSON 6 daur William WILKINSON 4 son Louisa WILKINSON 2 daur (may be my gt grandmother) Emily WILKINSON 1 daur In 1901 the family is living at 17 Porter St and the older children have left,except for Mary Ann and William (occupation - File Cutter)and younger children are Albert WILKINSON 13 James WILKINSON 19 Occupation - Moulder Lizzie WILKINSON 15 Don't know if any of these link with yours. Good Luck Susan. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.6.1/344 - Release Date: 19/05/2006

Linda: Chartermaster and chartmaster are variants of one another. They mean the same thing, as in your definition, and this method of employing mine labour was common in the Black Country. A "butty miner" or "buttyman" is also a very similar thing. Best wishes Paul Prescott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Marsh" <bm004e8508@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 8:57 PM Subject: [B.C.] Occupation >I wonder if someone could help with the following: > > I have an occupation 'Chartermaster'. According to the old occupations > there is only a 'Chartmaster' listed, which describes the job as > > "middleman that negotiated mining contracts and supplied the labour". > > The person involved lived in Bilston, I believe, has anyone any other > ideas about this occupation or could it be one and the same. > > Kind regards, > > Linda > > > ==== ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY Mailing List ==== > The Assistant List Admins are Jean Morgan and Jan Ross > (Couldn't do it without those two great ladies) > >

I wonder if someone could help with the following: I have an occupation 'Chartermaster'. According to the old occupations there is only a 'Chartmaster' listed, which describes the job as "middleman that negotiated mining contracts and supplied the labour". The person involved lived in Bilston, I believe, has anyone any other ideas about this occupation or could it be one and the same. Kind regards, Linda

In a message dated 14/05/2006 12:01:26 GMT Daylight Time, ENG-BLACK-COUNTRY-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: My relatives also lived in different places in the same area, but I am not sure if this is really true. It may be that the same place was described differently. I haven't been able to find all of the addresses on maps. Any thoughts? Here they are: 182 Park Street, Aston, Birmingham, Warwickshire (1861) Glydon's Building, Steward Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire (1871) Victoria Road, Aston, Birmingham, Warwickshire (Sept 1876) Springhill, Lady Wood, Birmingham, Warwickshire (Oct 1876) 21 Steward St. Ct., 2nd House, Birmingham, Warwickshire (1881) Hi Kathryn, There would seem to be two districts involved here as Park Street and Victoria Road, Aston are quite close together and run off Lichfield Road, but Steward Street is off Springhill and is near Dudley Road Hospital (now City Hospital). The two disticts are approximately 3 miles away from one another. Before demolition Springhill was full of small shops, but Steward Street had factories, possibly converted from domestic accommodation like the nearby Jewellery Quarter. Rita

There are 2 family history fairs taking place this weekend. Saturday, Bristol & Avon FHS are holding their annual event in Bristol, full details here. http://www.bafhs.org.uk/oursociety/events.htm On Sunday there's a fair at Maidstone, Kent. Full details here. http://members.aol.com/aquarterma/familyhistoryfairs.html Best Wishes Carol O'Neill www.genealogyprinters.com