Merry Christmas everyone from California USA. Sorry to be a bit late for your toast time. When it was 10:00 pm in the UK when you were partying It was just after lunch and I was running around like a crazy person shopping for Christmas. It is now 10:00 pm here so I will raise my cup of cider to you all and wish you good ancestor hunting in the new year. Mae Canaga

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I have an old ornament on which is depicted scenes of cock fighting and featuring particularly , a Harlequin clown who I understand to be a John Cashmore . John was known as the "peoples clown" or "the peoples fool" I can't be certain but I very vaguely remember being told that it depicts a slice of life in or around Wednesbury. possibly late 1700's early 1800's I would love to find out more about John Cashmere he must have been a very well known entertainer and by the quality of his clothing , probably successful too . Any clues would be welcome Thanks -- Mike Green

Thank you to everyone who helped with the meaning of "contractor". It makes a lot more sense now. Now I can feel more confident that I have the right person identified. Big thanks to all! Happy Holidays, Lois -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:11 am Subject: Re: [Black Country] Contractor? So, "contractor" was more like "contract worker". In a message dated 12/13/2009 4:14:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: May I comment on "Contractors". I have documents from the Old Hill area referring to a relative (Frederick Parkes) whose family business had bankrupted and he became a casual worker. He worked for various Councils laying paving stones (sidewalks) on a piecework basis. He was paid so much per 50 pavers laid. He was described as a Contractor. He did not have a Company, nor any assistants as far as the record shows. He moved to Wakefield in Yorkshire and did similar work. He was described as a Contractor on the books of Wakefield Council. This was around 1901 to 1910 so the term was in common usage. Details and Documents are in the Mallen Parkes Archive at Sandwell. I speculate that the present usage is post WW2. Cheers Roger Thompson. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 13 December 2009 02:44 To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Black Country] Contractor? Contractor may not be a "permanent" job, perhaps just for the length of the project... does this term mean the same then and now? In a message dated 12/12/2009 7:56:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, maaisha writes: Yes, Chris and Kathryne are right. I'm not sure, but I'm thinking the turnpike was built about that time. I have found what could be my Thomas Mansfield as a publican in 1851. But could a publican be considered a contractor? Confounded, Lois -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:42 am Subject: Re: [Black Country] Contractor? Details escape me now, but what were major building events at this time? Railroads, canals, etc.... it is good to go to historical picture. Kathryne in NY

So, "contractor" was more like "contract worker". In a message dated 12/13/2009 4:14:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: May I comment on "Contractors". I have documents from the Old Hill area referring to a relative (Frederick Parkes) whose family business had bankrupted and he became a casual worker. He worked for various Councils laying paving stones (sidewalks) on a piecework basis. He was paid so much per 50 pavers laid. He was described as a Contractor. He did not have a Company, nor any assistants as far as the record shows. He moved to Wakefield in Yorkshire and did similar work. He was described as a Contractor on the books of Wakefield Council. This was around 1901 to 1910 so the term was in common usage. Details and Documents are in the Mallen Parkes Archive at Sandwell. I speculate that the present usage is post WW2. Cheers Roger Thompson. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 13 December 2009 02:44 To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Black Country] Contractor? Contractor may not be a "permanent" job, perhaps just for the length of the project... does this term mean the same then and now? In a message dated 12/12/2009 7:56:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, maaisha writes: Yes, Chris and Kathryne are right. I'm not sure, but I'm thinking the turnpike was built about that time. I have found what could be my Thomas Mansfield as a publican in 1851. But could a publican be considered a contractor? Confounded, Lois -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:42 am Subject: Re: [Black Country] Contractor? Details escape me now, but what were major building events at this time? Railroads, canals, etc.... it is good to go to historical picture. Kathryne in NY ------------------------------------- The only List that specifically covers the whole of the Black Country. Run by Black Country folk who were born and still live in the area. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is anyone researching the names CRUMP and BANKS in West Bromwich? I have a Christopher H. BAILEY born 1914 in West Bromwich who married Gladys J. CRUMP. She was born in 1916 and her parents were Joseph Thomas CRUMP born 1886 and Emma J. BANKS born 1889, all in West Bromwich. So far I do not have any death dates for them. Rita _http://www.webspawner.com/users/ritabailey/index.html_ (http://www.webspawner.com/users/ritabailey/index.html)

Contractor may not be a "permanent" job, perhaps just for the length of the project... does this term mean the same then and now? In a message dated 12/12/2009 7:56:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, maaisha writes: Yes, Chris and Kathryne are right. I'm not sure, but I'm thinking the turnpike was built about that time. I have found what could be my Thomas Mansfield as a publican in 1851. But could a publican be considered a contractor? Confounded, Lois -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 7:42 am Subject: Re: [Black Country] Contractor? Details escape me now, but what were major building events at this time? Railroads, canals, etc.... it is good to go to historical picture. Kathryne in NY

On 12 Dec, <[email protected]> wrote: > I cannot find the marriage or children of Thomas Mansfield. His > daughter, Elizabeth, listed him as a "contractor" on her marriage > certificates (two). He was born about 1801 in Staffordshire, and the > one daughter I know about was born in 1831 in Wednesbury. Even if > their parish records don't exist, as with All Saints, I think I should > be able to find them in 1840, but cannot. Does anyone have any > suggestions? What would a contractor be? Someone working in > construction? Any help appreciated. > T.I.A., Lois I wonder if this was someone building canals or roads? In which case they could be anywhere! -- Chris Pampling researching: BARRATT, DANCER, FELLOWS, GOODES, HOLDING, ROBINSON, TUCKLEY, WHEWAY, MAHER all in and around Birmingham/Smethwick, 1850 to present day PAMPLING Cambridgeshire - Sheffield, 1800 to present VARNDELL Wokingham - Birmingham, 1800 to present

Details escape me now, but what were major building events at this time? Railroads, canals, etc.... it is good to go to historical picture. Kathryne in NY In a message dated 12/11/2009 11:12:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I cannot find the marriage or children of Thomas Mansfield. His daughter, Elizabeth, listed him as a "contractor" on her marriage certificates (two). He was born about 1801 in Staffordshire, and the one daughter I know about was born in 1831 in Wednesbury. Even if their parish records don't exist, as with All Saints, I think I should be able to find them in 1840, but cannot. Does anyone have any suggestions? What would a contractor be? Someone working in construction? Any help appreciated. T.I.A., Lois ------------------------------------- The only List that specifically covers the whole of the Black Country. Run by Black Country folk who were born and still live in the area. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I cannot find the marriage or children of Thomas Mansfield. His daughter, Elizabeth, listed him as a "contractor" on her marriage certificates (two). He was born about 1801 in Staffordshire, and the one daughter I know about was born in 1831 in Wednesbury. Even if their parish records don't exist, as with All Saints, I think I should be able to find them in 1840, but cannot. Does anyone have any suggestions? What would a contractor be? Someone working in construction? Any help appreciated. T.I.A., Lois

Thank you for these, Linda. Rita _http://www.webspawner.com/users/ritabailey/index.html_ (http://www.webspawner.com/users/ritabailey/index.html) Hi Rita, here you are:- ? 1754 (38) Beard Samuel, soldier in the Royal Welsh Fusileers quartered at Exeter, born Old Swinford with wife Mary whom he Married in Ghent Flanders 1774, father of James born 1750 previously apprenticed to William Darby Blacksmith of Old Swinford for 4 yrs. ? 1733 (297) John Broadhurst is apprenticed to Wm Darby a Nayler Old Swinford. ? HTH from Linda.

--- On Wed, 9/12/09, Pete & Lin Lamberg <[email protected]> wrote: From: Pete & Lin Lamberg <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Black Country] Bastardy Orders To: "Pat Hayward" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, 9 December, 2009, 19:14 Hi Pat, sorry no Allports, but I have to agree with you regarding Uttoxeter, I am sure the Allports were Boatmen, probably came up the Canal from Shropshire, like a lot of men did looking for work in the BC.  I live near Uttoxeter, there are no Canals there as far as I am aware.  I presume Allports Dingle was named after the family who lived there, as with Yards and Folds etc.  Will let you know if I come across a Wm Allport anywhere.  Linda. --- On Wed, 9/12/09, Pat Hayward <[email protected]> wrote: From: Pat Hayward <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Black Country] Bastardy Orders To: "Pete & Lin Lamberg" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, 9 December, 2009, 18:45 Hello Linda Were there any ALLPORT / ALPORT  listed? I have a William who is a mystery. Some recent researchers who do all their searches on the net think he was from Uttoxer but I think he came from Old Swinford or Kingswinford. Any help would be appreciated. Regards Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete & Lin Lamberg" Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Black Country] Bastardy Orders Hi Rita, here you are:- 1754 (38) Beard Samuel, soldier in the Royal Welsh Fusileers quartered at Exeter, born Old Swinford with wife Mary whom he Married in Ghent Flanders 1774, father of James born 1750 previously apprenticed to William Darby Blacksmith of Old Swinford for 4 yrs. 1733 (297) John Broadhurst is apprenticed to Wm Darby a Nayler Old Swinford. HTH from Linda.

Hi Rita, here you are:-   1754 (38) Beard Samuel, soldier in the Royal Welsh Fusileers quartered at Exeter, born Old Swinford with wife Mary whom he Married in Ghent Flanders 1774, father of James born 1750 previously apprenticed to William Darby Blacksmith of Old Swinford for 4 yrs.   1733 (297) John Broadhurst is apprenticed to Wm Darby a Nayler Old Swinford.   HTH from Linda.   --- On Wed, 9/12/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Bastardy Orders To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, 9 December, 2009, 9:12 <I have some bastardy, poor law, and settlement documents for the Parish of Old Swinford, also?lists some <people from the Kingswinford and?surrounding area, who are you looking for Robert? With regard to the above posted on Black Country site, can I be cheeky and ask if there are any DARBYs from Kingswinford/Wordsley amongst your documents, please.   Rita   http://www.webspawner.com/users/ritabailey/index.html

I have some bastardy, poor law, and settlement documents for the Parish of Old Swinford, also lists some people from the Kingswinford and surrounding area, who are you looking for Robert? --- On Tue, 8/12/09, cassy <[email protected]> wrote: From: cassy <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Black Country] bastardy orders To: "Robert Holmes" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Date: Tuesday, 8 December, 2009, 15:27 Hi Bob Try  the local archives , if Birmingham  was the area and  no luck there try  the other local  ones , that are near , There has to  be  copies of them somewhere , if that proves hopeless try the PRO  Office  at London But if you have been unable to  get anything from where he lived , could if have been a private agreement , another thing is church records  but these again would have  been in the local  Archives  to where he was living Cheers Cassy Assistant Admin Black Country Potteries, and Wolverhampton  Lists ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Holmes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: [Black Country] bastardy orders > Hallo All, does anyone know whether Bastardy Orders are available for > the West Midlands. A researcher at B'ham library wrote several  times to > a certain West Midlands authority on my behalf  but never received a > reply for whatever reason > > regards, Bob Holmes ( chasing a John Thomas Holden > > ------------------------------------- > The only List that specifically covers the whole of the Black Country. Run > by Black Country folk who were born and still live in the area. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------------- The only List that specifically covers the whole of the Black Country. Run by Black Country folk who were born and still live in the area. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I enquired once about my great grandfather (Birmingham/Aston) but apparantly the records have been lost/destroyed Jane Honey

Hi Bob Try the local archives , if Birmingham was the area and no luck there try the other local ones , that are near , There has to be copies of them somewhere , if that proves hopeless try the PRO Office at London But if you have been unable to get anything from where he lived , could if have been a private agreement , another thing is church records but these again would have been in the local Archives to where he was living Cheers Cassy Assistant Admin Black Country Potteries, and Wolverhampton Lists ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Holmes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: [Black Country] bastardy orders > Hallo All, does anyone know whether Bastardy Orders are available for > the West Midlands. A researcher at B'ham library wrote several times to > a certain West Midlands authority on my behalf but never received a > reply for whatever reason > > regards, Bob Holmes ( chasing a John Thomas Holden > > ------------------------------------- > The only List that specifically covers the whole of the Black Country. Run > by Black Country folk who were born and still live in the area. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hallo All, does anyone know whether Bastardy Orders are available for the West Midlands. A researcher at B'ham library wrote several times to a certain West Midlands authority on my behalf but never received a reply for whatever reason regards, Bob Holmes ( chasing a John Thomas Holden

Sadly I will not be able to be with you on Monday 21st, The Horse and Jockey sounds a great pub. But I will be at home and will lift my glass to my friends at 10 o'clock. It will make a pleasant change from listening to the news. Best Wishes to all Ted Southwick

Hi All, It's that time of year, and, as usual, we'll be having a BC List get together. Due to the horrendous amount of BC pubs closing over the past 12 months we're moving yet again! Sadly, last years venue has closed, in fact we were the last customers ever to pass its doors. Unknown to us at the time it closed for good when we departed in December last year. This year we will be at The Horse and Jockey on Wood Green Road Wednesbury on Mon 21st December. Some of you may remember it from the second BC reunion when we went for a meal in the restaurant there on a very warm summers evening. Built in 1904 on the site of a hotel and a pub, it's still going strong.......along with its six ghosts! Cyril is still haunting the Ladies loo after 100 years. There is food available until 9.00pm (full turkey meals in the restaurant or bar snacks such as chip butties) and the beer isn't too bad at all (Pints cost from £2.00). Absent friends at home and abroad will be toasted at 22.00 GMT. If you don't know where it is, just give me a shout and I'll send you directions. It's on bus routes and has a very large car park. Hope to see as many of you there as poss. Dave 8-) Wednesbury England Listowner: The Black Country, Staffordshire, The Potteries, Ironbridge, Leek & Lowe, Wolverhampton etc.,

Dear Kerry I think that the Black Country Museum (open air museum near Dudley) is a must visit. It then depends on how long you have and how far you are prepared to travel. Best Regards David Williams email: [email protected] tel: (61) 2 9958 3332 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mrs. Kerry Anne Barter Sent: Wednesday, 2 December 2009 1:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Black Country] Possible visit to England for research Hi All, Living in Australia and having come across a few brick walls with my research, I am wondering if it is worth my while coming to England and visiting the various Archives. If I did decide to do this I would obviously want to see all the other places of interest but research would be my main purpose. I know that this is probably a more expensive way of doing things but it would be nice to see the actual records and I am sure I would be benefit in many other ways from this visit. Kind regards, Kerry from Queensland, Australia ------------------------------------- The only List that specifically covers the whole of the Black Country. Run by Black Country folk who were born and still live in the area. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.89/2539 - Release Date: 12/02/09 06:32:00