Hi Lister Friends, I would like to wish everyone a Happy Christmas and the Best New Year, yet----and also share this Christmas memory with you. I shared it with Carole and her mother Ann over a year ago and I hope that they won't mind me sharing it with you all, now. It is of an Antipodean Christmas and not a typical one at that! Most of you have never visited New Zealand, or if you have, haven't experienced life in the backblocks! So I will have to "set the scene, first, before embarking on my narrative. My home was in a deep bay that was part of the Pelorus Sound, which in turn is part of the Marlborough Sound System at the top of the South Island. Some of you may know of the Sounds and even seen part of them as you journey on the ferry to Picton, but you don't see the most beautiful one -----Pelorus! My husband's marginal farm was well tucked away, with no road access.The reticulation of electricity had not reached our area at that time and other services we provided ourselves. So ---no "mod cons"! You might think that we lived in a time warp--- well, I suppose we did! It was Christmas Eve, in Nydia Bay, a deep inlet in the Pelorus Sound. For some years in the early 70s a gale and Christmas Eve co-incided, a likely event as it was the time of the Equinox. So this particular day was deteriorating from blustery weather to gale-like conditions as night approached. The farm chores were completed, dinner eaten and a little while later the four excited children twittered off to bed carrying empty stockings to place at the foot of each. Thankfully Keith and I relaxed over a cup of tea and whilst waiting for the children to fall asleep, we chatted and I got out my knitting. I had bought a doll for my daughter, Susan, and because I'd not been to afford the dressed version it needed clothes.I was still knitting the vest and had the other clothing to sew up. Auntie Florrie had tucked left over balls of Pingouin Krystal Krylor in pretty muted pastel shades, into the corners of her last parcel and it was ideal for the doll clothes I wished to knit. Eventually all was quiet---they were all asleep! Good! Now for the pillowcases, which we rapidly filled with gifts and goodies. We crept into the bedrooms, trying not to let anything rattle or jingle. The faintest "ting", and we froze, and tried not to giggle. At last the pillowcases had replaced the hopeful stockings, and we stole out. Now there was only the doll to be added. We companionably sat awhile in the lamplight , with the welcome warmth and dancing shadows of the wood-stove, and the kettle singing. A last hot cup of tea and Keith said that he was ready for bed, but I still had my task to complete. As I worked in the quiet room the violence of the storm became much more audible. Bang! Something hit the window, startling me, and I got up to peer through it but there was nothing amiss that I could see. Finally the last buttons and fasteners were sewn on, elastic threaded and the doll could be dressed in her pretty outfit. She had a dear little elfin face, a doll type that was all the rage that year; a "Squintzy" doll I think that they were called.Susan would be pleased! Now all that I had to do was to slip it into her pillowcase. I opened the door onto the porch, which had to be crossed to gain the new bedroom wing. Wham! Something struck me hard in the throat, something sharp which pierced the skin and made me cry out. Hurriedly I slammed shut the door and tried to think of a way around my predicament. At this stage of the house extensions that was the only route to the bedrooms, and it was blocked by a large sea-bird, frightened and probably half stunned from hitting th window ---and still attracted by the lamplight. I needed Keith's help and to get that I had to go out of the backdoor, creep around the house, and tap on his window.Tap,tap----not too loudly or I'd awaken the children! "Keith, please come and let me in, there's a bird on the porch. I can't come to bed," I said as loudly as I dared. "Hmmm---alright," was the sleepy reply. So I waited ---and waited---and waited, and tried again with the same results! Obviously I was having no success and just then to add to my miseries large drops of rain began to plop down on my head. I retreated back indoors and reviewed my plight. Bravely, I put out the lamp and then opened the front door. Ah, the bird had flown! I lost no time in crossing the porch and was soon snuggled up in bed, glad that I was where I was and not out in the rain, which had become a heavy downpour. We awoke to a calm sunny morning with no sign of the gale of the previous night. Excited rustlings meant that the children were busily opening their presents. I quietly related my midnight adventure to Keith, who couldn't believe that I'd failed to waken him. But if I expected sympathy I didn't get it, as the morning chores began and the children were too absorbed by their new playthings. There was breakfast to eat and Christmas or no the cows had to be milked, (by hand), and the hens fed, before we could become more festive. And as someone who enjoys drawing a cartoon or two I will admit that in retrospect it had all been rather amusing. I had to laugh when I pictured myself vainly pleading to my unheeding husband as drops the size of pennies began to fall from the inky black sky onto my head! It was a Christmas I shall always remember! And the abrasion on my throatassured me that I had not dreamt the whole experience! Today, I no longer lead a "pioneering" existence, but live in a pleasant suburb of Blenheim. So----- many of the previous events in my life have an air of unreality! Antipodean Christmases are so different from the ones I left behind and am nostalgic for, but with the sun hot, and the day bright many families enjoy barbeques instead of the traditional Christmas dinner . The important thing is that it is still a wonderful time for the children and a gathering of the clan. Regards, Muriel.

From my early Adderbury/Banbury family history research on the Judd(e) family, I can offer the following details, which if anyone has any further information on I would appreciate details; Ann Judd (bapt 21 Sept 1734 Adderbury) married to John GIBBARD/GIBBEARD on 10 November 1763 at Adderbury Elizabeth Judd (bapt 17 Sept 1735 Adderbury) married Jonathan GREEN on 8 January 1765 at Adderbury Isaac Judd (bapt 23 Aug 1741 Adderbury) married to Elizabeth CLEAVER on 1 April 1765 in Banbury Richard Judd (bapt 5 November 1747 Adderbury) married to Elizabeth SIMMONs on 6 October 1767 in Banbury Anyone out their researching GIBBARD, GREEN, CLEAVER or SIMMONs families, I would appreciate hearing from you if you can offer any further details. Many thanks in anticipation, David Judd

My grandfather and his family lived at 73, Merton Street, Grimsbury in the late 1800s and early 1900s. For some reason we never kept in touch with one of my uncles - Ernest William Kirk - born in 1896. By any chance does anybody know what happened to my Uncle Ernie?? Geoff Kirk Buckingham

Dear Everyone, I would be grateful if someone with access to the 1841 Census could tell me which addresses on Bridge Street were occupied by Gillett families? Also where did Richard and Mary Sanders live? (I would expect Bridge Street) Regards, Raphael Gillett

OK you win Carole, have come outta me shell. No wonder you liked Nan's mincemeat, made or shop bought. Nan always mixed whisky in it and let it stand a few days before making up the mince pies. You are right though it was yummy. From what I understand the original recipe from way back when did contain meat, now traditionally the only meat product it contains is suet, so you are correct on that score. Had real problems talking to Carole's Dad about what to get her. One time I spelled out 'scooter' and darned if Carole didn't pipe up 'yes please I would like a scooter for Christmas' Mind you it was so hard for Carole really cos Dad was away in the Navy for most of our Christmases, so they were really a lonely time for her. Ann

I thought mince meat in this case was all fruit and spices, maybe with suet (which I think has meat origins).... Loved to eat it on the spoon straight from the jar (yes, we cheated and had bought stuff....but I think Nan used to make it)...actually given half the chance - I STILL love to eat it off the spoon!!!! Carole -----Original Message----- From: PKentCALD@aol.com [mailto:PKentCALD@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2004 6:42 p.m. To: ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BAN] Christmas Customs Were mince pies fruit or meat? I've always been curious about "mincemeat" as ours were always minced fruit! We had many similar customs here in New Jersey - apple and orange in the stocking and mince pies and turkey on Christmas. We decorated our tree Christmas eve before heading off to midnight mass where we kids tried to "look fat" so they wouldn't sqeeze another person in the pew. When we got home, we would wake up Grandma and then open our presents BEFORE going to bed. Of course, we were old enough not to have to wait for St. Nicholas! Phyllis Kent

When my Mum used to make mincemeat she added cooked lights(cows lungs) bought from the butchers or could have been sheeps rhoda

The old meaning of meat was any solid food (as opposed to liquid food, which was drink). The 'meat' that is now bought from a butcher used to be known as flesh. Regards, Chris Westmoreland > -----Original Message----- > From: Carole No Name [mailto:caz@clear.net.nz] > Sent: 09 December 2004 20:09 > To: ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [BAN] Christmas Customs > > I thought mince meat in this case was all fruit and spices, maybe with > suet > (which I think has meat origins).... > > Loved to eat it on the spoon straight from the jar (yes, we cheated and > had > bought stuff....but I think Nan used to make it)...actually given half the > chance - I STILL love to eat it off the spoon!!!! > > Carole > > > -----Original Message----- > From: PKentCALD@aol.com [mailto:PKentCALD@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2004 6:42 p.m. > To: ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BAN] Christmas Customs > > Were mince pies fruit or meat? I've always been curious about "mincemeat" > as > > ours were always minced fruit! > > We had many similar customs here in New Jersey - apple and orange in the > stocking and mince pies and turkey on Christmas. We decorated our tree > Christmas > eve before heading off to midnight mass where we kids tried to "look fat" > so > > they wouldn't sqeeze another person in the pew. When we got home, we would > wake > up Grandma and then open our presents BEFORE going to bed. Of course, we > were > old enough not to have to wait for St. Nicholas! > Phyllis Kent > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

I understand that the original mincemeat (thats what it was called) had both ; meat and fruit: >> Lean beef , beef suet, currants and rasins candied peel, nutmeg. >> apples and brandy,, However, the lean beef ,was never used in any i had as a child... and when i make them now . it's the the easy way, with "Robertson's Traditional Fruit Mince"..made in U.K. ofcourse.. [[[[[[ sadly the original trademark missing.. Can't mention THAT word..???]]] betty ----- Original Message ----- From: <PKentCALD@aol.com> To: <ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [BAN] Christmas Customs > Were mince pies fruit or meat? I've always been curious about "mincemeat" > as > ours were always minced fruit! > > We had many similar customs here in New Jersey - apple and orange in the > stocking and mince pies and turkey on Christmas. We decorated our tree > Christmas > eve before heading off to midnight mass where we kids tried to "look fat" > so > they wouldn't sqeeze another person in the pew. When we got home, we would > wake > up Grandma and then open our presents BEFORE going to bed. Of course, we > were > old enough not to have to wait for St. Nicholas! > Phyllis Kent > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Why do some people ask just THOSE sorts of questions? You know...the ones that get you thinking of all sorts of OTHER things in the same vein of thought! ;o| Good one, Ian. Carole (...off to ponder upon your questions) -----Original Message----- From: IRHUCKIN@aol.com [mailto:IRHUCKIN@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 11:26 p.m. To: ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BAN] The banbury List Area Why do pirates always have West Country accents? Why is abbreviation such a long word? What's another word for Thesaurus? Why do Americans park on a driveway and drive on a parkway? Why is there only one monopolies commission? Closer to Home, why is the swimming bath in Park Rd and the Park in Bath Rd? Where do people in Coventry send their persona no gratis? Pardon my Latin! Why is it that everyone I see taking sugar in tea and coffee is skinny? Ian

Were mince pies fruit or meat? I've always been curious about "mincemeat" as ours were always minced fruit! We had many similar customs here in New Jersey - apple and orange in the stocking and mince pies and turkey on Christmas. We decorated our tree Christmas eve before heading off to midnight mass where we kids tried to "look fat" so they wouldn't sqeeze another person in the pew. When we got home, we would wake up Grandma and then open our presents BEFORE going to bed. Of course, we were old enough not to have to wait for St. Nicholas! Phyllis Kent

We had two children who were relegated odd or even days for the advent calendar chocolates!

Thankyou to all who replied to my query,on & off list. Heather Hudson --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 05/12/2004

I'm surprised that the normally instantly helpful Banbury list members haven't been back immediately with this one! According to the excellent Northamptonshire Marriage Index CD produced by Marilyn Ponting and Alan Clarke (and I'm not advertising just stating a fact!) - Thomas HANCOCK otp widr Sarah EMERY of Wardington widow 1834 27- Sep Chacombe which translated indicates that Thomas Hancock of Chacombe and Sarah Emery of Wardington ,both of whom were widowed, married on 27 September 1834 at Chacombe I hope that's the information required. Best wishes Geoff Parrish

I remember, I remember Christmas! Father Christmas used to wear something much more closely resembling the eiderdown from my parents' bed than any of the red suits he seems to wear these days. Not for him the gaily wrapped presents decorated with ribbons and tinsel, he favoured brown wrapping paper or a copy of the "Evening News" and parcels tied with string. Nor did he use the manufactured Christmas stockings or sacks that we see today. He used to steal three of Mum's old lisle stockings and stuff them like the Christmas chicken. They always contained an apple, an orange, a small bar of Nestle's chocolate, a wafer and sometimes a few sweets. Yet we looked forward to these stockings with such great excitement, deliberating in which order we would tackle the treats. There were no presents at the foot of the bed. These were reserved for after breakfast and our parents tried not to look too concerned as they attempted to assess the measure of glee we displayed. One present from mum and dad, one from Aunt Lucy and one from Nan and Grandad. I remember still the joy of the toy chocolate slot machine and the tin clockwork cars imprinted "made in Birmingham". Then the quick bath and spruce up before we set off upon the one journey in the year that nothing less than broken legs would ever prevent. We would walk the couple of miles to Kilburn and call upon Dad's mum where with luck we would collect a couple of shillings each from our aunts and then to Uncle Ern & Aunt Nina who were always good for a lemonade and half-a-crown! Off to Uncle Bert's then to Aunt Emmie and we would finish the morning having seen all our cousins and be as much as ten shillings richer. This money was carefully saved in our Post Office Savings Bank money boxes cleverly designed so that the coins would go in but would not come out! Periodically the boxes would be taken to the post office, opened with a key and the value of the contents entered into our Savings Books. I still have mine somewhere but don't all rush, there is nothing left in it! If we did not go to my maternal grandparents for Christmas dinner then we would eat at home, just the five of us. Usually it was chicken, sometimes beef. I remember the ''spin' that my mother put on it. "Much nicer than turkey", "Goose is so greasy", "There is never any meat on a duck", or, if all else failed, "Well I would get something else but Charlie prefers chicken". Oh, yes, I learned how to put a spin on things when Alistair Campbell wasn't even a gleam in his father's eye! And then we would do the washing up for Mum, play a game of cards or a board game and if we were lucky, another walk and we would join one of our grandparents or Aunt Emmie for an evening party. No wireless, no television, just a jolly good time and a sing-song. You remember this one. Are you ready now? All together ... If it is not too early may I wish you all the Happiest Christmas and a New Year of Peace and Joy. Len

Thanks for that....I just remembered the times I went to my nan's and she always put ribbons around the cake for me to have in my hair afterwards. And the Christmas pud....little 'charms' and silver coins wrapped in paper in amongst that lovely yummy smelling pud she made..... Drooooool! ;o) The fairy (always the last thing to go on) we put on the Christmas tree every year from when I was tiny til we came to NZ...and beyond (and I've just realised I left behind with my children with the break up of my marriage this year, as have I had to leave all the glass baubles that I had from child hood too) I vaguely remember seeing candle holders for candles on the trees, but don't remember seeing any lit. I saw them lit on Advent Wreaths tho, that sat on the table tops or hung from the ceiling. Mince pies....I always ate more than I used when baking (blush) Thanks for jogging my memory.... Carole -----Original Message----- From: Dorothy Gibbs [mailto:dorothy.gibbs@pandorasbox2.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 1:51 p.m. To: ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BAN] Christmas Customs In message <0I8D00D65N6E23@smtp1.clear.net.nz>, Carole <caz@clear.net.nz> writes >Does anyone have any customs that they followed, or remember as children, in >the lead up to Christmas? > Hi Carole, Oh Yes! Magical times they were. Lots of great ceremonies! Watching the making of the Christmas puds and being given a stir and told to make a wish. Watching the mincemeat being made and queuing up for a share of the juice which leaked out of the mincer and was collected in a bowl underneath. Tasty that was. The decorations went up on Christmas Eve, we all helped and we had REAL candles on the tree. Mum would ceremoniously light them when it was all finished and she did this every day throughout the 12 days not leaving it for a second, of course, while they were still lit. She usually timed it so that Dad would see them when he came up the road from work. We still have many of the original tree decorations and they all go on every year, even now. A plate of Mince pies and a bottle of Ginger wine were left on the table for Santa Claus when we went to bed.... in the morning only crumbs were left. Christmas stockings carefully labelled with out names were left out also when we went to bed and in the morning had magically filled with all sorts of things but the most important was the orange, apple and a shiny new penny at the bottom of it. The Church choir came round the district and sang carols in the road. Wish it was still like that. Dorothy -- Dorothy Gibbs (in Hertfordshire UK) ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Hi Folks.... Does anyone have any customs that they followed, or remember as children, in the lead up to Christmas? I remember Advent Calendars....but they had little pictures in, unlike those around today that have chocolate inside. At least with pictures there were no fights about who got to eat the chocolate that day! ;o) Carole

Hi Heather I can't help with your query but I would be very interested to hear if someone else can as there are HANCOCK connections with my Sarah HUNT of the Swalcliffe/Sibford area. Have you tracked them down in 1841 or 51. I have had a quick look at Chacombe, just over the border in Northants in the 1851 census but couldn't see them. There are many HANCOCK families there though and a couple of HUNTs. I am sure we were in touch about this a long time ago, perhaps you can jog my memory. Kind regards Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heather Hudson" <Heathermay.Hudson@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: [BAN] Marriage look up > Can anyone help with a look up for the Marriage of: > > Thomas HANCOCK & Sarah EMERY or HUNT. > This may be a second marriage for both parties. > Possibly Chalcomb > > Daughter Hannah Hancock b Chalcomb abt 1839 > > Thankyou > Heather Hudson > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 05/12/2004 > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Hmmmm....my mail is arriving in higgledy piggledy fashion today....some answers before some questions...a I am sooooo confuzzed! But finding that next download supplies the question that had the answer come with the previous batch. My ISP indulging in a little Christmas Cheer maybe????? Carole -----Original Message----- From: IRHUCKIN@aol.com [mailto:IRHUCKIN@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 10:19 a.m. To: ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BAN] Helen - admin Now then. My massus is frum Deb'n so dunt tek the pess! (in my best Devonian accent. Were you around in the Devonian period Betty???) Ian ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Should have added, that I loved the experience! Just realised how negative that sounded. Sorry. < goes off to stand in the corner > Blame it on the migraine! Hehehe -----Original Message----- From: Betty Rhodes [mailto:rhodesbetk@ozemail.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 1:46 p.m. To: ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [BAN] Helen - admin Oooooooooohh it's a lot more exciting than that.. ???? Ttrust-Me.. She's in Loooooong John Silver country.. >>and *NO Ian i wasn't around then !!!!! betty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carole" <caz@clear.net.nz> To: <ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:30 AM Subject: RE: [BAN] Helen - admin > Totally (all most) unrelated to this message....a 'memwah' brought on by > Ian's comment about Dorset... > > Think my first camping experience was in a paddock in Dorset....sure mum > (or > dad) will correct me when they read this. White tent, green grass....no > other tents...and a loooooottttttt of rain??? > > ttfn > Carole > > > -----Original Message----- > From: IRHUCKIN@aol.com [mailto:IRHUCKIN@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 12:25 p.m. > To: ENG-BANBURY-AREA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [BAN] Helen - admin > > We are a loveable bunch though. Well, I am anyway!!!! > Thanks to Helen for what she has done and Love to Angela XXX. I miss > popping > around for a chat. Bolody Dorset is a long way away!! All the best to > Spence > too. > > Ian > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx