All, I have enjoyed all the comments about where East Texas lies. Having grown up in deep eastern Texas, and living later in far western Texas, I always noticed that somewhere in between these two entities there exists an imaginary line of demarcation where a pickup truck on one side of the line may be labeled "East Texas Electrical Contractor" and on the other side, "West Texas Electrical Contractor." Odd, but I cannot ever remember seeing a Central Texas contractor sign. Culturally, the two sides of the State used to be very diverse. In the past, whenever a family in deep east Texas planned a vacation, they would plan something east of them. e.g., Disney World, New Orleans, etc. Whenever a West Texas family went somewhere, it was usually to the Rockies, California, Grand Canyon, etc. Many of the families that came into eastern Texas came very early and from the southeast, Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, ect. Many of the west Texas families, like my wife's German families, came later from areas in the north and midwest. Now, of course, the two sides have greatly intermixed (e.g., east Texas cotton farming families moving to the Texas High Plains when the boll weevil arrived from Mexico in the 1930s, and like me, an east Texan marrying into a West Texas family). I think to draw a real line of demarcation between east Texas and West Texas anymore would not be an easy geographic task, but still a lot of fun academically. Ron McClendon

I know I am in NorthEast Texas when I see Pine trees taller than me. I live in South Texas where I am taller than most trees. The dirt is red in East Texas. Even with my eyes closed I would know that I was in East Texas. I would hear the accent. Aspirin is pronounced aspareen.--spring is sprang--pink is pank. Karen is Kayreen. There are foods in East Texas that can hardly be found anywhere else. Cream peas and lady peas, elephant heart plums,cershaw squash, salmon croquettes with maple syrup,the worlds best figs, yellow meat watermelons,mayhaw berries,and water so soft that you hardly even need any soap. Last,but not least,the people are as friendly as any in the world. A lot of what I love about North East Texas is disappearing as it becomes more metropolitan. It is comforting each time I visit and find that much of it still exists. Karen Kerr

I am a gal raised in Hobbs, NM., which Santa Fe considers as West Texas and I grew up with tales of Paris, in East Texas. My grandpa's knee was my haven of safety as the big ole moon rose over the state line and he always said that it had just come from Paris. I heard of the pines in the far east, and the scissor tailed birds in Ok, Ft Worth and the Cow Palace was just a dream away. But I always wanted to go to Paris. It was a land of magical cowboys. Belle Star rode her horse there , and Jim July was gunned down right there! There was a general store that handled calicos and silks for the finest of little girl dresses, along side of beautiful bits and bridles for my old paint pony. Well, I grew up, Grandpa died and at age 55 I finally saw Paris. So modern, yet so like my little girl dreams. I will always love East Texas where the moon comes from. Leona P.S Looking for info about that Grandpa, who worked in Garretts Bluff for Mr Cooper in the 20's. He was J.O.CHESTER.

I was keeping out of this, but I will now put my two cents worth in also.. I was raised in Liberty County and taught that was SOUTH East Texas. About Livingstone, Polk Co. began East Texas all the way north to Longview. Really above there was considered NORTH East Texas. I was amazed to discover that people from Paris and Texarkana consider themselves living in East Texas. Oh well, TEXAS is a big state, and if we divide it into fourths, I guess then they are as East Texan as I am now, that I'm living in Nacogdoches Co. Boy, do we have Pine trees and chicken houses! Sherry Coker Douglas Researching LEE, ALLEN, DELONEY, BIRD, WEBSTER, COKER, ISHAM,& PERKINS, from NACOGDOCHES, SHELBY, HUNT, HOPKINS, WOOD, & RUSK COUNTIES. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gloria B. Mayfield <gbmayfield@tyler.net> To: <EAST-TEXAS-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 7:35 AM Subject: Re: East Texas > I think East Texas is where the PINE TREES Are. Gloria

East Texas has some of the nicest and prettiest girls in the world. I've covered a big portion of it. BT

You're making me homesick. BT

I can't begin to tell all of you how much I have enjoyed the comments about the East Texas county issue. I wrote Sharon Church (the one who started this mess) a little note the other day and I think she is enjoying it too. We must all realize of couse that we are giving her fodder for a great book that would rival the likes of "Bubba Goes To Texas" In response to the "Central Texas" issue; think about it, who would want to tell someone they were from Central Texas ? It has no romance !! North ? maybe a little. South ? depends on who you are talking to. West ? Everybody likes to make fun of West Texans and I should know because I am one. For instance "It's so flat in West Texas you can lay on your belly and see for five miles" But now EAST Texas has romance, character, history and most of all, class. If you don't believe it just ask someone from East Texas.......... Keep em coming guys and girls , hell I might write that book myself. Sammy Lee

I heard that Fort Worth is where the West began so that makes Dallas, where the East petered out. :>) Helynn

I think East Texas is where the PINE TREES Are. Gloria Dan Capps wrote: > > I think East Texas is what YOU want it to be. > > Dan Capps --

East Texas is where are all those nice helpful folks are down there in Texas, with only one or two not so nice. I'll bet those two didn't come from Texas. BT

I think East Texas is what YOU want it to be. Dan Capps

I do believe I have been misunderstood and I'll try one more time to clear this completely before moving on to something else. Please refer to the original question of "where is East Texas"? Please refer to a response, giving a URL for US GenWeb Texas Map Please refer to a simple "copy and paste" list of the counties described on the recommended US GenWeb Project Texas map, as it was divided somewhat into counties and areas. (NOTE: This list was not created by me, check with the state/county co ordinator for Texas US GenWeb Project and the manager of the web site.) Please refer to paragraph which states "it seems to be somewhere between the Red River and the Gulf I'm glad we have a list which includes all parts of "East Texas, regardless if it is Northeast, East, or Southeast". At not time did I say there is a mailing list for North Central, Central Texas or anywhere else. Please re-read the postings to be sure what you thought you read was actually what you read. How such simple postings can create such flurries of messages which doesn't even remotely pertain to the original message is beyond me. Thanks for the "kind and gentle" sarcastic mailings I have received, I'm very disappointed at the maturity as well as the vindictiveness of some people who evidently don't fully comprehend what what is written or what they read. Jo Autrey jmautrey@email.msn.com. ----- Original Message ----- From: P Phillips <webpsalms@iname.com> To: <EAST-TEXAS-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 1:37 PM Subject: From the Listowner: East Texas > Hi, Folks, > > This question about what is east Texas has come up before, and I do not like > the idea of making a list of counties that "qualify" because my sense is > that "East Texas" is in a real sense a state of mind. I can understand that > someone searching for ancestors in Texas would want to have some idea of > what area a mailing list covers. We've had quite a few responses, and while > all of them have some value, I really don't want to get pinned down and give > people the impression that there is any right or wrong. For instance, there > is an "East Texas" web site, which comes out of Tyler, that shows a map of > East Texas and it does NOT include Nacogdoches. Give me a BREAK! > > Back in the early days, the Nacogdoches (yeah, the extra "a" in there is > wrong, and I wrote and asked to have it corrected, but it has not been) > district covered all or part of 29 counties, and extended all the way up > through Dallas and down to Harrisville (Houston). East Texas Roots started > out with Nacogdoches as the center and included all of the surrounding and > nearby counties. At the time, there was NO mailing list that really dealt > with this area. There is a mailing list for the counties up on the border of > OK, though we have queries for them, too. As someone mentioned, there is the > Hill Country list, and there is a West Texas list. East-Texas doesn't extend > into the panhandle, or down into the valley. Austin and San Antonio are too > far afield. What we are trying to do is provide a place where people can > gather to discuss the area and their ancestors who lived in what has been > "historically" East Texas. So it is less a set of current counties, than it > is a geographical-cultural area from OK to the gulf and extending about 1/3 > to 1/2 of the way from the LA border (which fluctuated some in the early > days) into Texas. I *do* consider Houston, for instance, to be part of East > Texas, at least in some sense. > > Most of the queries and discussions involve the counties surrounding > Nacogdoches: Shelby, San Augustine, Sabine, Panola, Angelina, Cherokee, > Houston, Rusk and the counties surrounding them. But that doesn't mean that > queries about some other area in the eastern quadrant are inappropriate, > just that they probably will not get as much response. > > Now that each county has its own mailing list, East Texas Roots has changed > somewhat in character. As someone pointed out, if your ancestors wandered > all around the Eastern part of Texas and different parts of your family > lived in different counties, it is a lot more trouble to belong to a bunch > of different lists, and many people choose to stay on ETR instead or in > addition to a handful of primary counties. > > So, again, East-Texas-Roots is not for the Hill Country, the panhandle, > South Texas (Corpus Christi, etc.), the Valley, but does encompass the > counties bordering and surrounding Nacogdoches-Shelby-San Augustine, and the > area that used to be the Nacogdoches District. > > Sincerely, > > Pam Phillips > Listowner, East-Texas-Roots-L > Email: webpsalms@iname.com >

On Sale until May 2000 Orders for History of Shelby County, Texas Vol 1, 1988 are being taken. Prepayment of $130 per book Mail check to the below addresss ATN: History Book If you have any questions, please contact Ray, Margie or John -- Shelby County Historical Society Shelby County Museum and Genealogy Research Library Post Office Box 1542 230 Pecan Street Center, Texas 75935-1542 tel:409/598-3613 fax: 409/591-0959 schs@panola.cc.tx.us www.panola.cc.tx.us/~schs Monday - Friday 12:00 - 4:00 Saturdays 10:00 - 2:00 After hours by appointment

Historical Society Meeting - January 27, Thursday - 6:00 p.m. - Shelby County Museum Mr. Scott Dearman, Interpretive Ranger for the Mansfield State Historic Site, will be speaking on the Mansfield site's importance before, during and after the Civil War. Scott specializes in historical interpretation, research, and research writing and living histroy presentations and demonstrations. This young man will be a weath of information for our society and community. Hope you all can make the meeting. -- Shelby County Historical Society Shelby County Museum and Genealogy Research Library Post Office Box 1542 230 Pecan Street Center, Texas 75935-1542 tel:409/598-3613 fax: 409/591-0959 schs@panola.cc.tx.us www.panola.cc.tx.us/~schs Monday - Friday 12:00 - 4:00 Saturdays 10:00 - 2:00 After hours by appointment

Friends I have been unable to get my mail since Saturday morning so if anyone has written you will know why I have not replied. So far I have been able to send my messages so hopefully this one will go out also. Please hold any messages to me until I can get this problem resolved. Thanks Wanda wrtracy@juno.com

I was reading a list of First Settlers of San Augustine Co., TX, by Gifford White. I found these men named Littlefield. #131 Wm. B. Littlefield - 640 Acres pre 10 Oct 1837 #538 J. G. Littlefield - 1280 Received acres of Land 28 Sep 1837 #55 J. G. Littlefield - 1280 Received acres of Land 16 Aug 1840 Does anyone know anything about them? Betty

>#1 Re: List counties in East-Texas [BWright <bwright@connect.net>] snip: The WONDERFUL people on this list don't seem to care one way or the other whether your county is considered east Texas or not. Bobbie, This was basically a nice response, until I got to the sentence above. I hope that was not a zinger meant for me. I was only trying to ascertain if I was on the correct mailing list. Give me a break! snip: I was more than surprised to discover Dallas, according to this map, is included in the "north east" region of Texas when by all other counts we are in the North Central region. Note: I have not seen a North Central Texas mail list. Is there one? David: I have not seen one for Central Texas either. > #4 From the Listowner: East Texas"P Phillips" <webpsalms@iname.com>] snips:....This question about what is east Texas has come up before, and I do not like the idea of making a list of counties that "qualify" because my sense is that "East Texas" is in a real sense a state of mind. ....We've had quite a few responses, and while all of them have some value, I really don't want to get pinned down and give people the impression that there is any right or wrong. I thought one purpose of the mailing lists was for people to share ideas as well as genealogical queries and discoveries. Silly me. snip: I *do* consider Houston, for instance, to be part of East Texas, at least in some sense. That is your opinion, as was everyone's' who respond to my question. I truly enjoyed the activity it created until I got my hand slapped.. twice. From now on, I will just read and not query. snip: Most of the queries and discussions involve the counties surrounding Nacogdoches, Shelby, San Augustine, Sabine, Panola, Angelina, Cherokee, Houston, Rusk and the counties surrounding them. But that doesn't mean that queries about some other area in the eastern quadrant are inappropriate, just that they probably will not get as much response. snip: So, again, East-Texas-Roots is not for the Hill Country, the panhandle, South Texas (Corpus Christi, etc.), the Valley, but does encompass the counties bordering and surrounding Nacogdoches-Shelby-San Augustine, and the area that used to be the Nacogdoches District. Sincerely, Pam Phillips OK, Pam, In what section are Morris and Titus counties? sincerely, Sharon near Fort Worth, North Central Texas...< smile >

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------05AABC0CB5145FF6CAAEDE96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was sent to me from another list and I found it a really great research site. Follow step by step http://www.nara.gov/ It can be very useful researching members of the Five Civilized tribes. I would recommend printing it out because it is useful for reference and it is only 8 pages. If you are like me, you sometimes need an example to start you off, so here goes: Every enrollee hade a casefile packet made up upon enrollment. It contained a lot of useful data for genealogists, e.g., marriage. parents, place of birth, DOB, etc. 1. Go to "www.nara.gov" (remember don type quotes) 2. Click on "The Research Room" 3. Click on "NAIL database" under 'How to do Research at NARA' 4. Click on "Search Archival Holdings" 5. Click on "NAIL Standard Search" 6. Type "Final Rolls" in 'Enter Keyword' 7. Click "Submit Search 8. You should have "Total Hits Received: 4" 9. Click "Display Results" 10. Go to hit #3 and click "Full" which is to the right 11. This tells you how to order the packets mentioned above. Read info under "General Notes" 12. Click on "Links to digital copies" whick should be in blue This will give you name listings by tribe. The listings provide roll#, last name, first name, middle inital(sometimes middle name), afe, sex, degree of blood, and census card number. You need this info in order to order a packet. NOTE: Roll# and census card# are not the same thing. Now, one other problem, listings are not in alphabetical order but in roll# order. If you don't know roll#, follow instruction 3 in Search Tips web site above. If trouble with that, email me, but not Indian -Territory - Roots - L. BTW. #9 instruction in Website above is interesting. One of the example cases was about Wyatt Earp stealing a horse. --------------05AABC0CB5145FF6CAAEDE96 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="terrigem.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Terri Durham-Stone Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="terrigem.vcf" begin:vcard n:Durham-Stone;Terri tel;pager:510-218-9947 tel;fax:510-226-6230 tel;work:510-226-6230 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://members.tripod.com/~terrigem/funstuff.html version:2.1 email;internet:terrigem@home.com adr;quoted-printable:;;39120 Argonaut Way PMB127=0D=0A;Fremont ;CA;94538;USA x-mozilla-cpt:;3 fn:Terri Durham-Stone end:vcard --------------05AABC0CB5145FF6CAAEDE96--

I am seeking info on a Elizabeth CROW. She may have been the wife of a Martin CROW who supposedly came to Red River Co from TN and died shortly after. Elizabeth and family were enumerated in the 1850 Cass Co census. They were as follows: Elizabeth 36 f farmer 1500 TN Martin 18 m laborer TN Mansfield 16 m laborer TN Franklin 14 m TN Mary 12 f TN Nancy 7 or 9 f TX There were Elizabeths enumerated in 1840 Lamar Co, 1870 Davis Co (Betsy) and 1880 Cass Co (Betsy). I have not been able to go to the library to check to see if this Betsy fits. I would appreciate any info on Elizabeth and whether she was married to a Martin CROW. Thanks to all and good luck and good hunting in your researches....John Lowery

In a message dated 1/9/00 5:26:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, terrigem@home.com writes: << http://www.nara.gov/ >> This is a great site and thanks for the info. If you don't want to scroll through all the pages you can go straight to the link page at: <A HREF="http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/16085/standard.txt?action=4+0+51+ 53+24+-1+0+0.nailimage.display.multiple2|R%3D6872+AND+LINKDU%3D%22HTTP://MEDIA .NARA.GOV/MEDIA/IMAGES/33/5/33-0499T.GIF%22">http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starf inder/16085/standard.txt?action=4+0+51+53+24+-1+0+0.nailimage.display.multiple 2|R%3D6872+AND+LINKDU%3D%22HTTP://MEDIA.NARA.GOV/MEDIA/IMAGES/33/5/33-0499T.GI F%22</A>