Gerry's comment made me look in the DFHS Cardiganshire marriages.. there is a 1830 27/01 John Peregrine married in Llanerchaeron (Parish of Dehewid) to Anne Jones which doesn't appear to fit with the births of the children... No Pergrins. Jen From: Gerry Lewis <[email protected]> To: Dyfed List <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 14 May 2012, 13:45 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Patronymic surnames On 14/5/12 11:49, "yvonne evans" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi List, > > I am wondering if anyone is knowledgeable in the Welsh tradition of patrynomic > names. I have an ancestor named John Peregrine in 1841 census Llanycefn > Pembrokekshire. However there is no record of his marriage to his wife Anne > in any of Pembs parish records in mid Pembrokeshire nor in Carmarthenshire. > He would have married approx 1820. He had children born from 1825 onwards. > The biggest mystery is that his daughter Mary called herself Mary John at the > date of her marriage at Narberth Registry Office in mid 1840's. I have found > the marriage. However in 1841 she was aged 15 and was Mary Peregrine, living > in Llanycefn. There is no record of either of her parents having re-married. > However Mary married Daniel Peregrine of Meline(probably a cousin) and perhaps > thought that she would not call herself "Peregrine" on the date of her > marriage, as it would cause confusion being bride and groom would be > "Peregrine" before the marriage. > I have found quite a few John Johns in Llanycefn area prior to 1841(parish > records etc) and found a John John marrying Anne Morris 1816 Llanycefn. > Because of all this, are there any records of surnames fluctuating from > being Christian name of father to a stabilized different surname(within the > same family). This period of time that I am interested in, is of course > quite late(1830's 1840's.) I was under the impression that this custom would > no longer be in existence at that time. > All the other Peregrine children from Llanycefn were named "Peregrine" Also > for your information Llanycefn is a small parish. > > Hope someone can help! > > > Yvonne Evans Hello Yvonne I can't help you regarding the use of patronymic surnames in the early - mid 19th century. Some clarification is required regarding the 1841 and 1851 censuses. My Dyfed FHS fiche of those censuses have, in the 1841: Llandisilio (West) John PERGRIN, 40 [- 44], mason, born in Pem Anne PERGRIN, 45 [- 49], not born in Pem David PERGRIN, 15 [- 19] , born in Pem Lettuce PERGRIN, 10(?), born in Pem and in the 1851: Llanycefn John PEREGRINE, 60, b. Llandisilio Daniel PEREGRINE, 24, b. Eglwyswrw Mary PEREGRINE, 22, b. Llandisilio Anne PEREGRINE, 8, b. Llandisilio Martha PEREGRINE, 2, b. Llanycefn Cezia PEREGRINE, 8mo., b. Llanycefn (Dan[ie]l. was a servant boy in Meline in 1841 [not with his family]). There were several PEREGRIN families in Eglwyswrw in 1841. If the John PERGRIN and PEREGRINE were the same person, then the implication is that Anne was possibly born in Carmarthenshire and that is where their marriage might have taken place (although I can't find one on the DFHS fiche of 1813 - 37 marriages in west Carmarthenshire). I have two great great grandparents who were first cousins with the same surname PERKINS marrying in Nolton in 1843. I suspect you will find it difficult to find out why Mary didn't use Peregrine at her marriage to Daniel. Gerry Lewis ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hello again Anne Here is another reference to Peregrine in Meline on the Genuki page, scroll to the bottom where it says Genealogy - http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/PEM/Meline/ "Grimes, Yvonne. PEREGRINE of Meline. Dyfed FHS journal,1996 The derivation of a working hypothesis to show that Daniel Michael and Daniel Peregrine were one and the same person, in the mid 18th century, the son of Michael John, alias Michael Peregrine". Sandra ________________________________ From: Jennifer Cairns <[email protected]> To: Dyfed List <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 14 May 2012, 14:18 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Patronymic surnames Gerry's comment made me look in the DFHS Cardiganshire marriages.. there is a 1830 27/01 John Peregrine married in Llanerchaeron (Parish of Dehewid) to Anne Jones which doesn't appear to fit with the births of the children... No Pergrins. Jen From: Gerry Lewis <[email protected]> To: Dyfed List <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 14 May 2012, 13:45 Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Patronymic surnames On 14/5/12 11:49, "yvonne evans" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi List, > > I am wondering if anyone is knowledgeable in the Welsh tradition of patrynomic > names. I have an ancestor named John Peregrine in 1841 census Llanycefn > Pembrokekshire. However there is no record of his marriage to his wife Anne > in any of Pembs parish records in mid Pembrokeshire nor in Carmarthenshire. > He would have married approx 1820. He had children born from 1825 onwards. > The biggest mystery is that his daughter Mary called herself Mary John at the > date of her marriage at Narberth Registry Office in mid 1840's. I have found > the marriage. However in 1841 she was aged 15 and was Mary Peregrine, living > in Llanycefn. There is no record of either of her parents having re-married. > However Mary married Daniel Peregrine of Meline(probably a cousin) and perhaps > thought that she would not call herself "Peregrine" on the date of her > marriage, as it would cause confusion being bride and groom would be > "Peregrine" before the marriage. > I have found quite a few John Johns in Llanycefn area prior to 1841(parish > records etc) and found a John John marrying Anne Morris 1816 Llanycefn. > Because of all this, are there any records of surnames fluctuating from > being Christian name of father to a stabilized different surname(within the > same family). This period of time that I am interested in, is of course > quite late(1830's 1840's.) I was under the impression that this custom would > no longer be in existence at that time. > All the other Peregrine children from Llanycefn were named "Peregrine" Also > for your information Llanycefn is a small parish. > > Hope someone can help! > > > Yvonne Evans Hello Yvonne I can't help you regarding the use of patronymic surnames in the early - mid 19th century. Some clarification is required regarding the 1841 and 1851 censuses. My Dyfed FHS fiche of those censuses have, in the 1841: Llandisilio (West) John PERGRIN, 40 [- 44], mason, born in Pem Anne PERGRIN, 45 [- 49], not born in Pem David PERGRIN, 15 [- 19] , born in Pem Lettuce PERGRIN, 10(?), born in Pem and in the 1851: Llanycefn John PEREGRINE, 60, b. Llandisilio Daniel PEREGRINE, 24, b. Eglwyswrw Mary PEREGRINE, 22, b. Llandisilio Anne PEREGRINE, 8, b. Llandisilio Martha PEREGRINE, 2, b. Llanycefn Cezia PEREGRINE, 8mo., b. Llanycefn (Dan[ie]l. was a servant boy in Meline in 1841 [not with his family]). There were several PEREGRIN families in Eglwyswrw in 1841. If the John PERGRIN and PEREGRINE were the same person, then the implication is that Anne was possibly born in Carmarthenshire and that is where their marriage might have taken place (although I can't find one on the DFHS fiche of 1813 - 37 marriages in west Carmarthenshire). I have two great great grandparents who were first cousins with the same surname PERKINS marrying in Nolton in 1843. I suspect you will find it difficult to find out why Mary didn't use Peregrine at her marriage to Daniel. Gerry Lewis ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message