Achwr It is of course a fact of life that historical documents/books aren't always entirely accurate. I have no idea how the 1892 Southall linguistic map of Wales fares in this sense. I would hope that the serious researcher would also consult the other related books/articles listed on Genuki, the one by Brian John only relates to the landsker and has several diagrams. Gareth Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html Cwmgors a'r Waun http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html -----Original Message----- From: yr achwr Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 1:26 AM To: Lynne Ingalls ; Gareth ; Dyfed Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Landsker map on Genuki Gareth, Lynne I instinct tells me that the Map is not 100% accurate. I doubt that there were 0% Welsh Speakers in the South of the County in 1892. The 1891 Census was the first that asked a question about the ability to speak Welsh. I have requested access to data, that shows the percentage of Welsh Speakers broken down by Parish. I should have access in the next few days, and will report back. The bulk of the population of Pembrokeshire, lived in South Pembs, rather than the Rural North, and the % speakers quoted for Pembrokeshire in 1891, do not appear to add up if there were no Welsh Speakers in Haverfordwest, Milford, Pembroke, Pembroke Dock and Narberth, and surrounding areas which were the major population centres, and together with the other Parishes below the Landsker accounted for 50% or more of the total County Population. Achwr

Thanks, Gareth. I assume the problem lies in the term "native" Welsh speakers. Of course others from outside the southern part of Pembrokeshire could have moved in and spoken a number of languages other than English, but would they be considered "native?" As I haven't seen the rest of the book, I don't know when the map was made or what period it covered. It was published in 1892, but may have been a map from an earlier period. I like the map because it gives me a general idea of what people are talking about when they say, "Little England of Wales" or landsker. We have a similar situation in So. Ariz. There are many native speakers of various languages (Tohono O'odham, Spanish, Yaqui, etc.) in the area, and many live in distinct neighborhoods (on and off the reservations). If someone were looking for an ancestor from a particular neighborhood, we would be able to tell them which language group they were likely from. Not that a "native" English speaker couldn't be living amongst them, and vice versa. Its just a guide. Lynne -----Original Message----- From: Gareth Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 5:21 AM To: Dyfed Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Landsker map on Genuki Achwr It is of course a fact of life that historical documents/books aren't always entirely accurate. I have no idea how the 1892 Southall linguistic map of Wales fares in this sense. I would hope that the serious researcher would also consult the other related books/articles listed on Genuki, the one by Brian John only relates to the landsker and has several diagrams. Gareth Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html Cwmgors a'r Waun http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html -----Original Message----- From: yr achwr Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 1:26 AM To: Lynne Ingalls ; Gareth ; Dyfed Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Landsker map on Genuki Gareth, Lynne I instinct tells me that the Map is not 100% accurate. I doubt that there were 0% Welsh Speakers in the South of the County in 1892. The 1891 Census was the first that asked a question about the ability to speak Welsh. I have requested access to data, that shows the percentage of Welsh Speakers broken down by Parish. I should have access in the next few days, and will report back. The bulk of the population of Pembrokeshire, lived in South Pembs, rather than the Rural North, and the % speakers quoted for Pembrokeshire in 1891, do not appear to add up if there were no Welsh Speakers in Haverfordwest, Milford, Pembroke, Pembroke Dock and Narberth, and surrounding areas which were the major population centres, and together with the other Parishes below the Landsker accounted for 50% or more of the total County Population. Achwr ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message