Anna, As I have an interest in some of the families in Llanllawddog, Llanpumpaint, and surrounding parishes, I looked at the Gellyfergam family in the past, and could not make sense of the information available at the time. John Rice of The County Borough of Carmarthen died in 1732. SD/1732/30 (The Will is endorsed Gellyfergam.) Some at least of his children were minors, and there is no Anne Rice mentioned, but neither for that matter is Woodford Rice, who was apparently the eldest son and heir. Anne Rice is probably the daughter of Woodford Rice who died in 1771. SD/1771/34. Francis Jones in his inimitable fashion, has it appears missed out generations in the entry on Gelli Fergam in Carmarthenshire Homes. As Woodford Rice died in 1771, he could not have married Catherine Lloyd of Crynfryn in the same year "by whom he had four sons and two daughters". There are other Rice Wills, which seem to relate to this family, and one mentions Catherine his Grandmother who had a life interest in the estate. The following documents might through further light on the case between Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel of Trimsaran, and Ann Mansel, Rice or Price. Gellyfergam is described as in Llanllawddog Parish when Ann Price is Cited for jactitation of marriage in 1756, and it would appear also in 1757. There may have been adjoining properties of the same name, separated by the parish boundary. SD/CCCm(G)/397 (a-c) 1756 June 2 Parties: Anne Mansel agst. Sir Edwd. Vaughan Mansel, bart. Context: Restitution of conjugal rights. D., Return of a Commission executed in a Cause of Appeal from the Court of Arches. SD/CCCM/C(G)/649 1756 Sept. 16 Citees: Ann Price of Gellyvorgan, Llanllawthog, sp. Cause: To ans. Sir Edwd. Vaughan Mansell, bart., for jact. of marriage. SD/CCCM/M(G)/85 1757 May 13 Monished: Sir Edwd. Vaughan Mansell. Cause: To put in his personal answers to Anne Rice of Llanllawthog in cause of jactitation of marriage. SD/Arches/7 (a-f) 1760 April 4-1761 Nov. 2 Parties: Sir Edward Vaughan Mansell, bart., agst. Anne Price, spinster, falsely calling herself Dame Anne Mansell. Context: Jactitation of marriage. Acts of commissioners, substitutions of proctors, bill of costs, instructions for examining witnesses. Best wishes, Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Sep 04 2013, 07:08 PM From: "Anna Brueton" <bruetons@anoeth.demon.co.uk> To: Dyfed@rootsweb.com Cc: Subject: [Dyfed] Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel and his Clandestine Marriage Can anyone help me with further details in this case? In 1756, Anne Rice of Gellyfergam, Abergwili, took out an action in the Consistory Court at Carmarthen against Sir Edward Vaughan Mansel for restitution of conjugal rights, in respect of a marriage which was said to have taken place in 1749. (Francis Jones, in Cwmgwili and its families, in the Carmarthenshire Historian, suggests that the marriage took place in 1733, but he must be mistaken - Edward would have been just a child then). He claimed that no marriage had taken place, and the case went to the Court of Arches, where the surviving papers seem to suggest that he then tried to annul the marriage. I wondered whether anyone knows what the outcome was. Mansel married Mary Shewen in 1763, so the case must have been decided by then. Grateful for any clues Anna ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR

Thanks you very much to Achwr and Sir Arthur for your replies. Achwr, I have seen some of the consistory court court papers you mention, where Anne is described as the daughter of Woodford Rice, and Rev. John James testified that the clandestine marriage took place in 1749. But (unless I've missed something) I couldn't find the eventual outcome. I suppose I will have to go to the Court of Arches to see if there's anything there. Family Search Community Trees has the Rice tree, which lists some of the children that Arthur identified, though not Anne. It doesn't give a date for Woodford's marriage to Catherine Lloyd, but it creates further confusion by giving him 2 wives, both of whom are said to have died after him. The other is the widow Joyce Howells, whose death is in Sir Arthur's list. It's possible that somewhere along the line Catherine's date of death (1788) has been transcribed wrongly. Arthur - I see that Anne's existence and parentage is confirmed by the baptism in your list on 22 July 1736. That makes her around 13 at the time of the marriage, if the baptism was close to the date of birth - legal but perhaps a little young for a 25 year old man? Many thanks Anna