Dear Rhodri, “1795...Rev. Thomas Nicholas, curate of Machen in Monmouthshire having six young children and only 18 l. per annum.” In 1842 he was referred to as “late Rev. Thomas Nicholas, Rector of Machen, Monm. and one of the Curates of St. George’s Hanover Sq.” that’s when his youngest daughter married in Islington. I seem to have mixed up a news report as I only have bits and one line runs into another.....another clergyman apparently received the 30 l. However, I get your point....he could have had an assistant at Machen when he was actually Rector, and helped out at St. George’s.....but he was only a lowly curate whilst the examples you’ve given me seem to have held Higher Offices. Perhaps he worked as a curate at St. George’s then was moved on to a living at Machen. Regards, Bettye K. From: yr achwr Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 9:57 AM To: Lance Kirkwood ; Lynne Ingalls Cc: DYFED-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Men of religion Bettye, What date are we talking about? Most of the Rectors were Non Resident up to 1845. 1845 Henry Howarth, B.D. a.. Chaplain in Ordinary to the Queen. He reformed the Services at St George's, instituting a weekly Communion Service, and was active in improving the condition of the poor in the parish. 1803 Robert Hodgson, M.A. a.. He was also Vicar of Hillingdon; 1810-40; Archdeacon of St Alban's, 1814-16; Dean of Chester, 1816-20; Dean of Carlisle, 1820-44. Through the marriage of his grand daughter to the Earl of Srathmore, he was an ancestor of the present Queen. 1774 Henry Reginald Courtenay, D.C.L. a.. While Rector of St George's, he was also Rector of Lee, Kent, 1773-94; Prebendary of Exeter, 1772-94; Bishop of Bristol, 1794-97; Bishop and Archdeacon of Exeter, 1797-1803. He was buried in the vault of Grosvenor Chapel. 1759 Charles Moss, D.D. a.. He continued to hold the living on his appointment as Bishop of St David's in 1766, but resigned on his elevation to the Bishopric of Bath and Wells in 1774. 1725 Andrew Trebeck, D.D. a.. Born 1681; educated Charterhouse and Christ Church, Oxford. Vicar of Croydon, 1720 - 27. With St George's he also held the living of Shelley, Essex, where he was buried in 1759. "The 18th century Rectors were intermittently resident, being Pluralists and holding other appointments elsewhere as Bishops or Deans, in spite of the fact that the living was considered a rich one, being worth about £1500 a year with a fine house in Grosvenor Street. The emoluments were sufficiently attractive for Dr. William Dodd, a Royal chaplain and popular preacher in 1774 to offer the Lord Chancellor's wife £3000 and an annuity of £500 to obtain the living for him. She reported the matter, he lost his reputation and was hanged three years later at Tyburn for forgery." The chances are that the Rector of Machen, kept a Curate at Machen and resided in London.. Achwr ======================================== Message Received: Mar 15 2014, 09:53 PM From: "Lance Kirkwood" To: "Lynne Ingalls" Cc: DYFED-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Men of religion Dear Lynne, Thank you for your reply......I was hoping someone would know if parish clergymen were called upon to go to London to assist on special occasions and if and why certain people were chosen for such a task. It surprised me that a Welshman would be called for such a duty......he must have been fluent in English, I imagine...or had some special skill. I have another record where this man received 30l annual salary and had to maintain a wife and family of 6 children. ...another rector is recorded as having 6 children and only received 18l. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Lynne Ingalls Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 5:08 AM To: Lance Kirkwood ; dyfed@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Men of religion Bettye - According to the dictionary of Genealogy: "until the 17th century the term 'curate' was often synonymous with 'incumbent', but latterly it was applied almost exclusively to an assistant parish priest, paid a salary or stipend and removable by the incumbent or bishop. A Perpetual Curate is one in charge of a parish church where the tithes have been impropriated and there is no endowed vicarage." The rector was "the owner of a parish benefice, who was also the recipient, until they were commuted, of the Great Tithes. He was responsible for the upkeep of the chancel of his church as his private portion of the building." Hope this helps. Lynne in Tucson -----Original Message----- From: Lance Kirkwood Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:46 PM To: dyfed@rootsweb.com Subject: [Dyfed] Men of religion Dear List, This is directed mainly at Mr. Paul Vivash if he is available, but another Lister may have an explanation. I’m just curious! St. George’s Hanover Square seems to be one of the most fashionable wedding venues for the gentry.....at least in fiction late 17-early-1800’s. One of my Devonalds married the daughter of the “Rev. Thomas Nicholas, Rector of Machen, Monmouthshire and one of the curates of St. George’s Hanover Square”. This was shown in a newspaper cutting...it is not as if the rector could pop up the road and do both jobs simultaneously so what I would like to know is if it was a common practice to draw lesser clergy from various parts of the country to assist the incumbent at St. George’s...or were there special reasons for such men to be allocated these curate roles in London. I would have imagined the senior minister at such a major Church would have several curates, in residence, to help him. Did the incumbent attend to births, deaths and marriage...any pomp and circumstance..... and was the curate’s role more administrative? The Nicholas daughters appear to have married in various Counties so it apparently did not entitle him to preside over his children’s weddings at such an exalted location. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ACHWR