Hello and thanks again Sylvia I am sure you are correct regarding the naming pattern, having come across it many times in my own family search "up North" So I feel inclined to apply for a cert. for the birth of Martha, mentioning that her mother's maiden surname may be Rowland *or* John. I only hope they didn't both have daughters called Martha. :-) Best wishes Reuben >>Looking at the marriages on BMD like you did, in 1848 a William James >>married Anne John or Anne Rowland possibly. So I took a look at 1841 and >>it shows a 15 year old Anne John living in Mathry with her parents, >>William and Martha John. William John was a Smith Journeyman. Always >>remember that back then parents would have named their children after >>their parents, grandparents etc (with luck).