Hi Joy, Many thanks for the information about Bridget James and George Furlong, and sorry for the delay in replying. I have ancestors from Narberth and Robeston Wathen, and possibly Llawhaden, with the surname "James" and have been trying to sort out the different James families in that area in order to get further back. Just a couple of days ago I came across a will that mentioned the couple who you said were the parents of Bridget James, Thomas James and Frances. (Bridget is also mentioned). As there is a rather mysterious bond for a large sum of money and a letter of renunciation attached to that will, I am sending this message to the whole list in the hope that somebody can shed light on that mystery, but I am leaving the details of the will to last because the problem of the farmer John James, described below, is integral to it. My 3 x great grandparents were John James, a stone mason born in Narberth Parish in about 1818 and Anne Llewellyn who was born in either Llawhaden or Narberth in about 1819. According to their marriage certificate John's father was also called John James but he was a farmer, not a stone mason. I am virtually certain that John's mother was the Mary James who died in Robeston Wathen on 30 August 1869 because her death certificate stated she was the widow of a farmer called John James and the informant was also called John James and was living in Cotts Lane, Robeston Wathen. Unfortunately death certificates at that time did not state relationships but my 3 x great grandfather, John James the stone mason, had been living in Cotts Lane for many years and was still living there at the time of the 1871 census and later. In the 1861 census Mary James was living in Redstone Cottages (near Sodston House), Narberth Parish with her daughter Bridget Jones who was born in Narberth in about 1820. Mary was described as a pauper. Rather confusingly next door in the household listed just before hers there was another stone mason called John James and his wife but that was not my stone mason! I have not yet been able to discover if he was a relation. At the time of the 1851 census Mary James had been living on her own in Redstone and her occupation was given as "famer's widow." She had also been lving in Redstone in 1841 but with Sarah James, born in about 1821 and George James who was a stone mason born in about 1822. I found George James's marriage certificate, to Sarah Thomas on 23 May 1848 and it confirms that his father was a farmer called John James. Therefore John James the farmer died before the 1841 census and his wife was Mary was born in Newport, Pembrokeshire in about 1778 (according to censuses) and they had at least four children, John (my ancestor), Bridget, Sarah and George, those four being born in Narberth Parish in a short period from about 1818 to 1822. I searched for deaths of men called John James in the parish records for Narberth and Robeston Wathen in the period 1822 (approx.) to 1841 but the only one anywhere near Mary's age was a farmer who died in tragic circumstances in 1833. The Cambrian Newspaper carried the short report below on 16 June. “On Monday last a person of the name John James, in a state of despondency from poverty, suspended himself to a beam in his house, at Narberth, and when discovered life was completely extinct. He had been formerly a respectable farmer, living at Sodston, near Narberth. An inquest was held on the body the next day, and a verdict of Lunacy returned by a respectable Jury.” The coroner's report has not survived but I think it is extremely likely that that John James was Mary's husband. I believe that the farmer John James of Sodston had some connection with the couple you mentioned,Thomas James and Frances, because a few days ago when I started ploughing through wills left by people with the surname "James" at the National Library of Wales website (some strange impulse made me start with Llawhaden instead of Narberth or Robeston Wathen) I came across a will left by one of the children of Thomas and Frances James and in addition there was a mysterious probate bond for a large sum of money and one of the signatories was the farmer called John James living in Sodston. Futhermore there is a strange twist in the story because one of the other men who signed the bond then almost immediately renounced all responsibility for it! I have attempted to transcribe or summarise the important parts but could not read the handwriting in places. (Sorry for all the legal gobbledygook!). Will of George James of Vaynor, Llawhaden made 13 March 1820 Richard James, brother, freehold lease of estate in Faenor granted by George Parry Esq. in 1816, and other goods, provided Richard maintained his father, Thomas James, and mother Frances James whether at Faenor or Parc yr Odin [???]. Bridget James, sister, £200 after any debts and funeral expenses are paid. Rees Thomas, brother-in-law, was appointed executor. George James was described further on in an annex "Carmarthen February 13th 1822" as "late of Begson??? [I did not recognise the placename] in the Parish of Llawhaden. Administration Bond Page 5 of the will says that "we Richard James of Faenor in the Parish of Llawhaden in the County of Pembroke, Farmer, Rees Thomas of Llandre in the Parish of Egremont in County of Carmarthen, farmer, and John James of Sodston in the Parish of Narberth in the County of Pembroke, Farmer, are held and firmly bound unto the Right Reverend Father in God Thomas by divine ... [word that is difficult to read] Bishop of St David's in the sum of Nine Hundred Pounds ... to be paid unto the said Lord Bishop or his certain Attorney his executors or Assigns [???] to which payment well and truly to be made we oblige ourselves and each of us by himself and themselves [??] for the whole our and each and every of our Heirs Executors and Administrators firmly by these Presents sealed with our Seals dated the 13th day of February in the third year of the Reign of our Sovereign Reign Lord George the Fourth by the Grace of God ... [etc. etc.] in the Year of Our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred and Twenty Two. The Condition of this Obligation is such That if the above bounden Richard James Administrator [... ... ... ??] of all and singular the Goods Chattels and Credits of his late Brother George James deceased do make or cause to be made a true and perfect Inventory of all and singular the Goods Chattels and Credits of the said deceased which have or shall come to the Hands Possession or Knowledge of him the said Richard James or into the Hands and Possession of any Person or Persons for him and the same so made do exhibit or cause to be exhibited into the Registry of the Consistory Court of Carmarthen at or before the last day of August next ensuing and the same Goods Chattels and Credits and all other the Goods Chattels and Credits of the said deceased at the time of his death which at or any time after shall come to the hands or Possession of the said Richard James or into the hands and Possession of any other Person or Persons for him do well and truly administer according to Law And further to make or cause to be made a true and just Accompt [it did state "Accompt" not "account"] of his said Administration at or before the last day of February next and all the Rest and Residue of the said Goods Chattles and Credits which shall be found remaining on the said Administrators Accompt the same being first examined and allowed by the Judge or Judges for the time being of the said Judge or Judges by his or their Decree or Sentence pursuant to the true Intent and Meaning of a later Act of Parliament made in the two and twentieth and three and twentieth Years of the Reign of our late Sovereign Lord King Charles the Second intituled??? [word is difficult to read] an Act for the Better settling of Intestate Estates shall limit and appoint ... [the next 6 lines are crossed out] then this Obligation to be void or else to remain in full Force and Virtue. It was signed by Richard James, Rees Thomas and John James, 13 February 1822 and described as an Administration Bond. Page 7 says simply: Dated 13 February 1822 Rees Thomas Gent to Richard James Farmer, Renunciation. On page 8 Rees Thomas stated in writing his refusal to have anything to do with the administration of George James's estate and handed over all responsibilty to Richard James who was described as "one of the brothers and next of kin of the deceased." That implies that there were other brothers. Could John James of Sodston, the other man who signed the bond, have been related to George James? If so why wasn't he mentioned in the will itself and why didn't the bond mention his relationship to the deceased? (The bond did not mention that Rees Thomas was the deceased's brother-in-law either). The amount of the bond, £900, would have been a very large sum of money in the 1820s, very roughly equivalent to £38,000 today. See the calculator at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/currency/ or the other calculators in my web page below. Current Value of Old Money http://projects.exeter.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/current/howmuch.html Does anyone know if it was normal for such large bonds to be requested in connection with wills in the early 19th century? Why did Rees Thomas wash his hands of the whole business? Was any account taken of ability to pay in setting the amount of the bond? If so the famer John James of Sodston cannot have had any financial worries in 1822. Why then was he driven to take his own life just 11 years later? Why was the bond preserved? I haven't come across any in connection with any other wills (but I haven't examined a large number). Were probate bonds a pure formality or did people sometimes have to pay them? If so did this bond have to be paid? If anyone could shed light on these mysteries I would be grateful! Regards, Roy On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 3:37 AM, Joy <joy.cozens@btinternet.com> wrote: > > Hi Roy > > I was very interested in your mention of the marriage of Bridget James > to George Furlong at Llawhaden as George was the brother of Charlotte > Furlong, my 4 x gt grandmother.  I have a large amount of information on > the Furlong family back to John Furlong who died in 1754.  I only know > that Bridget's parents were Thomas James and Frances (possibly Gibby) > but I have not made a study of that family.  Are you descended from the > Furlong or James line?  I wonder if you have any information that we > could share? >