Hi Moni I'm looking forward to seeing your certificate. I have heard of people getting married in one church/chapel and then later getting a blessing in another - probably to cater for their separate chapels. I wonder if this is the case here? Where exactly on the certificate are my Lewis and Jane mentioned as you can't have one certificate or two weddings. Looking at the GRO Index there are only one set of Lewis Evans and Jane Butler in the Dec qtr of 1852. My certificate shows they married on 13th October 1852 in Carmel Chapel (Baptist) by Henry Price. The witnesses were Mary Ann Williams and Margaret James. Both Carmel chapel and Bethel came under the Rhydwilym "umbrella" so they are connected. I will send you a scan of the certificate off-list for you to see. Pat In message <8b2612690911241459n4a2fd9c3t73a86ba619ae3713@mail.gmail.com> , A Spell In Time <spellintime@googlemail.com> writes >Thank you Pat and Katherine for your replies. > >I actually replied to Pat offlist by accident through pressing the >wrong button, so have pasted my reply below in case it's of interest >to anyone else. > >I remain puzzled by the double wedding involving Samuel John because I >don't know of a family relationship between the two couples, so I'm >wondering why they did it in this way. > >With thanks and best wishes > >Moni > > > >Dear Pat > >It sounds very much like your Lewis Evans and Jane Butler are the same >as those named on my certificate, but the marriage date on mine is >definitely 1 November 1852. I'll get the certificate scanned and email >it to you next week, and would be very interested to know if your >marriage certificate mentions my Samuel John and Martha Phillips at >all. > >Meanwhile I hope that others on the list might know something about >the occurrence of double weddings, if this indeed is what this is. > >With best wishes > >Moni > > >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> I've just received a marriage certificate for Samuel John and Martha >>> Phillips at Bethel Baptist Chapel, Monachlogduu, PEM, dated 1 November >>> 1852, and it seems that this was a double wedding. >>> >>> The part of the certificate which requires the marks/signatures of the >>> bride and groom, states that the marriage was solemnised between 4 >>> people: Samuel John, Lewis Evans, Jane Butler and Martha Phillips. I >>> know nothing about the  extra couple - Lewis Evans and Jane Butler. As >>> far as I know they weren't relatives. I'm intrigued. Was it common to >>> have double weddings in Baptist chapels? Would this have been because >>> it was cheaper? >>> >>> I would be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject. >>> >>> Thanks very much >>> >>> Moni >>> > > >================================ >Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com >with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >the message -- pat

Hi all I don't want to be pedantic (or rather, I do, I suppose) but isn't "double wedding" something of a misnomer? A wedding is, by definition, between one man and one woman, so, even if two wedding ceremonies are informally combined, two distinct sets of vows have been made and two separate weddings have taken place. There should be two register entries and (after 1st July 1837) two civil certificates, so I do not see how you (in principle) should be able to distinguish from the records between a "double wedding" and two separate ceremonies which have taken place on the same day. Am I missing something here? Is there one register entry somehow covering two marriages? If so, surely this is a mess-up on the part of the person in charge. I have always thought of a "double wedding" (or any sort of multiple wedding) as being merely a public sign of kinship and/or amity between all the parties concerned and as having no legal implications whatsoever, including those for the documentation produced. Best wishes Allen Williams Sale Cheshire On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:17:23 -0000, pat <pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk> wrote: > Hi Moni > > I'm looking forward to seeing your certificate. > > I have heard of people getting married in one church/chapel and then > later getting a blessing in another - probably to cater for their > separate chapels. > I wonder if this is the case here? > > Where exactly on the certificate are my Lewis and Jane mentioned as you > can't have one certificate or two weddings. > > Looking at the GRO Index there are only one set of Lewis Evans and Jane > Butler in the Dec qtr of 1852. > > My certificate shows they married on 13th October 1852 in Carmel Chapel > (Baptist) by Henry Price. > The witnesses were Mary Ann Williams and Margaret James. > > Both Carmel chapel and Bethel came under the Rhydwilym "umbrella" so > they are connected. > > I will send you a scan of the certificate off-list for you to see. > > Pat > > > > > In message <8b2612690911241459n4a2fd9c3t73a86ba619ae3713@mail.gmail.com> > , A Spell In Time <spellintime@googlemail.com> writes >> Thank you Pat and Katherine for your replies. >> >> I actually replied to Pat offlist by accident through pressing the >> wrong button, so have pasted my reply below in case it's of interest >> to anyone else. >> >> I remain puzzled by the double wedding involving Samuel John because I >> don't know of a family relationship between the two couples, so I'm >> wondering why they did it in this way. >> >> With thanks and best wishes >> >> Moni >> >> >> >> Dear Pat >> >> It sounds very much like your Lewis Evans and Jane Butler are the same >> as those named on my certificate, but the marriage date on mine is >> definitely 1 November 1852. I'll get the certificate scanned and email >> it to you next week, and would be very interested to know if your >> marriage certificate mentions my Samuel John and Martha Phillips at >> all. >> >> Meanwhile I hope that others on the list might know something about >> the occurrence of double weddings, if this indeed is what this is. >> >> With best wishes >> >> Moni >> >> >>>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> I've just received a marriage certificate for Samuel John and Martha >>>> Phillips at Bethel Baptist Chapel, Monachlogduu, PEM, dated 1 November >>>> 1852, and it seems that this was a double wedding. >>>> >>>> The part of the certificate which requires the marks/signatures of the >>>> bride and groom, states that the marriage was solemnised between 4 >>>> people: Samuel John, Lewis Evans, Jane Butler and Martha Phillips. I >>>> know nothing about the extra couple - Lewis Evans and Jane Butler. As >>>> far as I know they weren't relatives. I'm intrigued. Was it common to >>>> have double weddings in Baptist chapels? Would this have been because >>>> it was cheaper? >>>> >>>> I would be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject. >>>> >>>> Thanks very much >>>> >>>> Moni >>>> >> >> >> ================================ >> Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> DYFED-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body of >> the message > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Dear Allen and Pat I called this a double wedding and put a question mark in the title line because I don't know at the moment what else to call it and I have never seen anything like this before. The marriage certificate is for just one couple, Samuel John and Martha Phillips, married at Bethel Baptist Chapel in Monachlogddu in 1852. However it seems that two couples were married at the same time because the certificate states that "This marriage was solemnised between us..." and four names are given in the space for the bride and groom's signatures/marks: Samuel John and Martha Phillips, plus Lewis Evans and Jane Butler. There are two separate witnesses to the marriage as per usual. In the margin beside the names of those who were married is a note that looks like "Seven & D." It certainly got me intrigued! Perhaps, as you suggest, Pat, this could be a case of Lewis Evans and Jane Butler getting married in one chapel and then blessed in another to accomodate both their places of worship. But if that's what Lewis and Jane did, it's strange that their names have been given on Samuel John and Martha Phillips marriage certificate in the way that they have. Perhaps the wedding and the blessing both took place at the same time in front of witnesses. So for me there's still a bit of a mystery there. I hope you've got the scan of the marriage certificate now, Pat. With thanks and best wishes Moni 2009/11/25 allen williams <gerald.williams23@ntlworld.com>: > Hi all > > I don't want to be pedantic (or rather, I do, I suppose) but isn't "double > wedding" something of a misnomer? > > A wedding is, by definition, between one man and one woman, so, even if two > wedding ceremonies are informally combined, two distinct sets of vows have > been made and two separate weddings have taken place. There should be two > register entries and (after 1st July 1837) two civil certificates, so I do > not see how you (in principle) should be able to distinguish from the > records between a "double wedding" and two separate ceremonies which have > taken place on the same day. > > Am I missing something here? Is there one register entry somehow covering > two marriages? If so, surely this is a mess-up on the part of the person in > charge. > > I have always thought of a "double wedding" (or any sort of multiple > wedding) as being merely a public sign of kinship and/or amity between all > the parties concerned and as having no legal implications whatsoever, > including those for the documentation produced. > > > Best wishes > > Allen Williams > Sale Cheshire > > On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:17:23 -0000, pat <pat@pcubed.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> Hi Moni >> >> I'm looking forward to seeing your certificate. >> >> I have heard of people getting married in one church/chapel and then >> later getting a blessing in another - probably to cater for their >> separate chapels. >> I wonder if this is the case here? >> >> Where exactly on the certificate are my Lewis and Jane mentioned as you >> can't have one certificate or two weddings. >> >> Looking at the GRO Index there are only one set of Lewis Evans and Jane >> Butler in the Dec qtr of 1852. >> >> My certificate shows they married on 13th October 1852 in Carmel Chapel >> (Baptist) by Henry Price. >> The witnesses were Mary Ann Williams and Margaret James. >> >> Both Carmel chapel and Bethel came under the Rhydwilym "umbrella" so >> they are connected. >> >> I will send you a scan of the certificate off-list for you to see. >> >> Pat >> >> >> >> >> In message <8b2612690911241459n4a2fd9c3t73a86ba619ae3713@mail.gmail.com> >> , A Spell In Time <spellintime@googlemail.com> writes >>> >>> Thank you Pat and Katherine for your replies. >>> >>> I actually replied to Pat offlist by accident through pressing the >>> wrong button, so have pasted my reply below in case it's of interest >>> to anyone else. >>> >>> I remain puzzled by the double wedding involving Samuel John because I >>> don't know of a family relationship between the two couples, so I'm >>> wondering why they did it in this way. >>> >>> With thanks and best wishes >>> >>> Moni >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear Pat >>> >>> It sounds very much like your Lewis Evans and Jane Butler are the same >>> as those named on my certificate, but the marriage date on mine is >>> definitely 1 November 1852. I'll get the certificate scanned and email >>> it to you next week, and would be very interested to know if your >>> marriage certificate mentions my Samuel John and Martha Phillips at >>> all. >>> >>> Meanwhile I hope that others on the list might know something about >>> the occurrence of double weddings, if this indeed is what this is. >>> >>> With best wishes >>> >>> Moni >>> >>> >>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I've just received a marriage certificate for Samuel John and Martha >>>>> Phillips at Bethel Baptist Chapel, Monachlogduu, PEM, dated 1 November >>>>> 1852, and it seems that this was a double wedding. >>>>> >>>>> The part of the certificate which requires the marks/signatures of the >>>>> bride and groom, states that the marriage was solemnised between 4 >>>>> people: Samuel John, Lewis Evans, Jane Butler and Martha Phillips. I >>>>> know nothing about the  extra couple - Lewis Evans and Jane Butler. As >>>>> far as I know they weren't relatives. I'm intrigued. Was it common to >>>>> have double weddings in Baptist chapels? Would this have been because >>>>> it was cheaper? >>>>> >>>>> I would be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks very much >>>>> >>>>> Moni >>>>> >>> >>> >>> ================================ >>> Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> DYFED-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >>> body of >>> the message >> > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > -- A Spell In Time Tales from Bulgarian Myth & Folklore www.spellintime.co.uk