Thanks for this info on Carmarthen Academy It must have been where my relative - John Jones, of course - went before he became a Williams scholar. He never quite made it to the Ministry, but he has certainly brightened up the large list of Joneses that I have! Here is something I wrote about him for the Cardiganshire FHS Journal: The Williams scholarships were set up under the will of Dr Daniel Williams of Library fame, the nonconformist who died in January 1715/6. They were awarded to young men who wished to train as nonconformist ministers, of any denomination, and candidates were selected by competitive examination in Latin, Greek, Mathematics and the Scriptures. One of the manuscripts held in Dr Williams’ Library (in Gordon Square, London) contains biographical notes of the Williams Scholars. Here is the relevant entry from MS38.57: Student cxxxv Appointed September 1834. Jones (John), student at Carmarthen, previous to his appointment. Though a man of very good abilities, he was in the course of the session 1835-6, deprived of the Exhibition, and obliged to leave College on account of habits of drunkenness and immorality. Every endeavour had been used to reclaim him. His full exhibition was, however, paid to him for that, as well as the preceding session. Oh dear! So he never got his degree. The full exhibition was £40 per annum in 1834, which was a lot of money in poverty-stricken upland Cardiganshire. It seems that the money and the freedom went to John’s head. He was already 23 years old, and perhaps his maturity made him more inclined to kick over the traces after so many years’ study. I had thought the list of Williams Scholars might have held a significant number of Welsh names, but the trustees found it difficult to get suitable candidates to come forward. John Jones was only the 135th scholar in the whole of Britain in about 100 years of the award. Bill G-J In a message dated 26/08/2009 22:13:29 GMT Daylight Time, acjj@clara.net writes: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Philpin" <andrewphilpin@hotmail.co.uk> > To: <dyfed@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:24 PM > Subject: [Dyfed] Carms: Carmarthen Academy for Preacher training > Does anybody know if the Carmarthen Academy (College) for Preacher > training is still in existence or where any records from it would be > housed. I would appreciate any help you can give. From: "Gareth" <tirbach@clara.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Carms: Carmarthen Academy for Preacher training > May not have the specific answer to your question but the Carmarthen entry > on this Genuki page may be of interest Andy > http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/TheoColl.html The key points being: * The history of the original academy is long and convoluted, * the College closed in 1963 * "Oriel Coleg Presbyteraidd Caerfyrddin, 1796-1899" by E Pan Jones, Merthyr Tydfil, 1909 ... consists of a chronological collection of biographies of students, many enlivened with photographs of the individuals concerned, and has an alphabetical index ... It has a smattering of biographies in English alongside those in Welsh." * The Presbyterian College, was restricted to theology from 1895. There are records for the period 1820-1951 at National Library of Wales. * Attended by students from a variety of different nonconformist denominations * Not to be confused with Trinity College/Trinity University College, Carmarthen. Photograph: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1440725 AJ ================================ Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hello Bill, I have been watching the exchanges on the Carmarthen Academy with interest as my second cousin, Clifford BEVAN, trained there. Are the details of the Williams scholars freely accessible? Clifford won it in 1932. He was also awarded the Upton prize for elocution in the same year. regards, Dai Bevan BILLGJ@aol.com wrote: > > Thanks for this info on Carmarthen Academy It must have been where my > relative - John Jones, of course - went before he became a Williams scholar. > He never quite made it to the Ministry, but he has certainly brightened > up the large list of Joneses that I have! > > Here is something I wrote about him for the Cardiganshire FHS Journal: > > The Williams scholarships were set up under the will of Dr Daniel Williams > of Library fame, the nonconformist who died in January 1715/6. They were > awarded to young men who wished to train as nonconformist ministers, of any > denomination, and candidates were selected by competitive examination in > Latin, Greek, Mathematics and the Scriptures. One of the manuscripts held > in Dr Williams’ Library (in Gordon Square, London) contains biographical > notes of the Williams Scholars. Here is the relevant entry from MS38.57: > > Student cxxxv Appointed September 1834. > Jones (John), student at Carmarthen, previous > to his appointment. Though a man of very good abilities, > he was in the course of the session 1835-6, deprived of > the Exhibition, and obliged to leave College on account > of habits of drunkenness and immorality. Every > endeavour had been used to reclaim him. His > full exhibition was, however, paid to him for that, > as well as the preceding session. > > Oh dear! So he never got his degree. The full exhibition was £40 per > annum in 1834, which was a lot of money in poverty-stricken upland > Cardiganshire. It seems that the money and the freedom went to John’s head. He > was already 23 years old, and perhaps his maturity made him more inclined to > kick over the traces after so many years’ study. > > > > I had thought the list of Williams Scholars might have held a significant > number of Welsh names, but the trustees found it difficult to get suitable > candidates to come forward. John Jones was only the 135th scholar in the > whole of Britain in about 100 years of the award. > > Bill G-J > > > In a message dated 26/08/2009 22:13:29 GMT Daylight Time, acjj@clara.net > writes: > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Andy Philpin" <andrewphilpin@hotmail.co.uk> >> To: <dyfed@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:24 PM >> Subject: [Dyfed] Carms: Carmarthen Academy for Preacher training >> > > >> Does anybody know if the Carmarthen Academy (College) for Preacher >> training is still in existence or where any records from it would be >> housed. I would appreciate any help you can give. >> > > From: "Gareth" <tirbach@clara.co.uk> > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Carms: Carmarthen Academy for Preacher training > >> May not have the specific answer to your question but the Carmarthen >> > entry > >> on this Genuki page may be of interest Andy >> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/TheoColl.html >> > > The key points being: > * The history of the original academy is long and convoluted, > * the College closed in 1963 > * "Oriel Coleg Presbyteraidd Caerfyrddin, 1796-1899" by E Pan Jones, > Merthyr > Tydfil, 1909 ... consists of a chronological collection of biographies of > students, many enlivened with photographs of the individuals concerned, and > has an alphabetical index ... It has a smattering of biographies in > English > alongside those in Welsh." > * The Presbyterian College, was restricted to theology from 1895. There are > records for the period 1820-1951 at National Library of Wales. > * Attended by students from a variety of different nonconformist > denominations > * Not to be confused with Trinity College/Trinity University College, > Carmarthen. > > Photograph: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1440725 > > AJ > > > > > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > > > > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
----- Original Message ----- From: <BILLGJ@aol.com> To: <Dyfed@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Carms: Carmarthen Academy for Preacher training > Appointed September 1834. > Jones (John), student at Carmarthen, previous > to his appointment. Though a man of very good abilities, > he was in the course of the session 1835-6, deprived of > the Exhibition, and obliged to leave College > > Oh dear! So he never got his degree. The Carmarthen Academy (which I repeat is not to be confused with Trinity College) had no powers to issue any degrees as early as 1836. In pre-St David's College Lampeter days, students for the Anglican ministry in St David's diocese often studied on one of the courses offered by the five episcopally-approved Grammar Schools at Ystrad Meurig, Carmarthen (i.e. Queen Elizabeth - once again not to be confused with the presbyterian academy or with Trinity College), Brecon, Lampeter (i.e. the old grammar school), and Cardigan. AJ