Annie What you say below makes sense so I will look into it. Thanks for all this hard work - I appreciate the effort that you have put in on my behalf. Your earlier suggestions & information have helped me go back much further. Thanks again. Tommy _____ From: cardi2@aol.com [mailto:cardi2@aol.com] Sent: 24 January 2010 02:14 To: dyfed@tommye.plus.com Subject: Re: [Dyfed] re CGN, CELLAN Hi: I sent a copy of the email I sent you yesterday to my cousin who lives in England. We are doing research together. She feels that since Elizabeth's brother was named Stephen, that he might have been named for his grandfather: Stephen Daies of Tafarndy (means Tavern in Welsh). On the 1841 census, there was a Rachel born 1840 living with her parents, Stephen Davies 45 and Racel 40 and older brothers and sisters: DAvid, Anne, William, Elizabeth. (The same first names do run in families.) as wella s Stephen, Bejamin and the Rachel. The head of the family was a Mary Wiliams age 75 a publican. In 1851 they are stil there and in 1871, the father is dead but the mother is still alive and next door is her son Stephen with his family. The Mary Williams might be the wife Rachel Senior's mother. You might want to look at that. Cellan is such a small parish but seems to be filled with people. Annie -----Original Message----- From: Tommy (Dyfed) <dyfed@tommye.plus.com> To: cardi2@aol.com Sent: Sat, Jan 23, 2010 9:20 am Subject: RE: [Dyfed] re CGN, CELLAN Annie & all Thanks for that - I will have to look at documents more carefully in the future. Tommy _____ From: <mailto:cardi2@aol.com> cardi2@aol.com [ <mailto:cardi2@aol.com?> mailto:cardi2@aol.com] Sent: 23 January 2010 02:30 To: <mailto:dyfed@tommye.plus.com> dyfed@tommye.plus.com Subject: Re: [Dyfed] re CGN, CELLAN Hello Tommy: When you gave me the information off the 1871 census, I think you gave it as what you thought it should be not what it was. You stated that the daughter, Elizabeth was 4 years old on that census, living with her parents, but she wasn't. You passed up a really good clue into her father's ancestry. You see, Elizabeth wasn't with her parents. She was with her grandparents - David and Elizabeth Jones of Tycoch farm, Llanfair Clydogau. David was a carpenter as his son was. Occupations run in families. I went back to the 1851 census in Llanfair Clydogau and found David age 10 with his parents, living on the same farm which is located on the west side of the Teifi River. Don't look for a 1861 census for Llanfair Clydogau or Cellan - it does not exist. David either married a Rachel Davies or a Rachel Jones. Both names are in Cellan and were listed in the FreeBMD under Lampeter Dsitrict which takes in that part of Wales. The only Rachel Davies listed in 1851 was a Rachel the dau of David Davies of Tangaerfach farm, Cellan. The only Rachel Jones was living on Llwynberllan farm with Walter Griffiths and family. She was 15 and an independent it said, which probabl means she was able to make a living. I don't know which is which. You will have to get a marriage certificate to find that out. I will tell you this that your David Jones knew my relatives because they lived next door to each other. And, in 1980, my second cousin, David Tom Morgan of Gartheli Parish used to visit his cousin, David John Morgan who lived on Tycoch. It's a small world. Good luck in your searching. Annie Los Angeles ==============snip=======================