Dear Carol, Whilst I am basking in all the praise you have heaped upon me, it is quite undeserved as I know it is just luck that you've asked for things I know a little about....and have some records to back them up. Glad to have Sylvia and Myra on board to give you practical and sensible information. You are indeed fortunate because many of the families associated with yours are amongst Pembrokeshire's elite and wealthy ...so much has been written about them. I've spent all my spare time today on your quest....and, don't worry, I'm in a tangle too. I have lots on the Williams of Velindre but that can keep for another day. In the e-mail you sent to me direct, you are still a little bit wrong in your assumptions. I've found my missing abstract. William Batine, Residence Barretts Hill, Steynton, Pembroke, Gentleman. Date of Probate 21 Sept. 1819. Morgan Jones Esq. , Trustee & friend, - residence Llwynbedw Thomas Morrice, Farmer, Trustee and friend. Anne Batine, daughter....leasehold at Milford, Pemb. Mary Batine, daughter Lettice Ford Batine, daughter. Sir William Hamilton, Lessor Rt. Hon. Charles Francis Granville, lessor. Margaret, wife of John Devereux Thomas Batine, son Francis Batine, son William Batine, son. Witnesses William Cassell Jnr., J. George, Lieutenant, William Lewis. Under One thousand one Hundred pounds Using this abstract as a guide, perhaps you will gain even more knowledge if you read the actual Will from The Nat. Library site. ....... Now we know from Major Jones, the late Welsh Herald's work that William Batine had a three lives lease on Llanwnwr, Llanwnda from Thomas Griffith Esq. Thomas Batine married Elizabeth William at Nevern in 1802....she had family money and land behind her too! We know from his Will some details about his three daughters and their married names...did others mentioned in the 1841 census die before Thomas did, or were they perhaps mainly children of his brother Francis...or the unknown brother William, mentioned in his father's Will. The information I previously provided gave Thomas Batine an age of 84 at death, so he would actually be born c. 1771 and in 1789 when the lease of Llanwnwr was negotiated he would be aged 18.....did his father give him control of it, I wonder? Under Denant, Steynton, Major Jones wrote "in 1833 Thomas Batine held Denant (525 acres) on a lease of lives and yearly rent of 240 pounds. By 1844 it had been bought by John Howard Peel". I wonder against whose lives the lease was written ..maybe it is on The National Library website in one of the Deeds. Unfortunately, I can't find a record of William Batine's marriage to Dorothy. I thought she might be a Ford, considering one daughter had Ford as her middle name, but I could find nothing. If Thomas Batine was born in 1771 and either he or his sister Mary was the first born......we can estimate that his father and mother, William Batine and Dorothy would be born, probably, c. 1740 or 1750. I now refer to information contained in Major Jones article "The Squires of Stonehall"...... "Richard Ford and Mary Wogan had eight daughters and their mother's moiety of the Stone Hall estate was divided among them". They were... 1. Anne Ford..married after 1693 George Owen..etc. 2. Bridget Ford married before 1688 Gilbert James of Trewallterwen and Lochmeyler etc....... 3. Mary Ford married after 1693 the merchant Benjamin Stokes of Haverfordwest and Rosemarket etc. 4. Lettice Ford married after 1693 Edward Mathias of Castlemorris etc. ............................... 5.Joan Ford married before 1693 John Griffith of LLANWNWR in Pencaer, gentleman. His Will dated 18 May 1726 was proved in 1731. They had five children, John, Stephen (died before 1731), Benjamin, Mary, Lettice (Note. A Thomas Griffith of Llanwnwr, esquire, died on 3 November, 1808 aged 68, his wife Martha on 9 October, 1796, aged 61 and were buried at Llanwnda). ................................ 6. Grace Ford married before 1693 Constantine Phillips........ 7. Dorothy Ford married a Mr. Palmer and was a widow 1693-1702. She afterwards married a widower Revd. Thomas Davies........ 8. Jane Ford unmarried in 1693 (Note it is possible that she married Anthony Stokes of Bangeston......... " Dorothy was a name well used at this time in the area, but it was certainly a WOGAN name....in fact all the names of Richard Ford's children are repeated in the Batines. John Griffith and Joan Ford were not William Batine's wife's parents....but I am wondering,. as I've estimated she would be born c. 1740 to 50 if perhaps Dorothy Batine was a child of one of their children. I wonder if Myra has looked at the Griffith Wills, as she is researching the area. We know Thomas Batine married in 1802 at Nevern. Margaret, his sister, married John Devereux at Steynton in 1803. Perhaps Vera Lowe, if she is home, has more information. Who of the Batines was in America with Custer.......I probably lost that when I had my two computer crashes.....know I had read it, but can't remember the details. I have more Batine information.....need to check if there are possible Wills for the husbands of other Batine ladies. Carol....I have probably really confused you now!!! Forgot to mention Sir William Hamilton......under St. Kennox, Llawhaden.....from Major Jones "In 1786 Sir William Hamilton was owner. Lord Nelson took the opportunity to visit the Royal Dockyards at Milford Haven whilst being entertained here by Lady Hamilton. Sir William Hamilton was a true patriot, even being prepared to lay down his wife for England" (No, no typo here!) This was Sir William's second wife....his sickly Barlow family heiress first wife left him very land rich! Under Cilciffeth...."The Hon. Charles Greville, who inherited the estate from his uncle, Sir William Hamilton, died unmarried in 1809, leaving Cilciffeth to his brother Robert whose son, Robert Fulke Greville, in 1856 sold the house and its demesne etc." The Rt. Hon. Charles Francis Granville, as shown on the abstract, is incorrect. Dai, would you like us to go off-list now with all this? Does it have family interest to anyone other than Carol? Bettye Kirkwood. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Birch" <cenquest@tiscali.co.uk> To: <manxie55@hotmail.co.uk>; <dyfed@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:03 AM Subject: Re: [Dyfed] BATINE surname query > Dear Carol > > Following on from Myra, who tells us that Eleanor's father was Thomas > Batine. > > 1841 Living at Llanwnwr, Llanwnda > Thomas Batine age 65, occupation Farmer, born in Pembrokeshire > Elizabeth Batine age 60, born Pembs > Thomas Batine age 20, born Pembs > Anne Batine age 30, Elizabeth Batine age 25. > Also in house were Francis Batine (Male) age 55, Independant. > Anne Batine age 40. William Willams age 4. All were born in Pembs. > Together with 3 servants. > Remember in 1841 ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 or 0. > > Thomas Batine married Elizabeth Williams at Nevern in 1802. > > 1851 still living at Llanwnwr, Llanwnda, Pembs > Thomas Batine age 80, married, Farmer of 330 acres employing 9 > labourers, born Stainton (which is Steynton today). > Elizabeth wife, age 82, born Nevern. Elizabeth daughter, age 37 born > Llanwnda. > Ann James, granddaughter, age 8, scholar, born Dinas. > > Best Wishes > Sylvia > > > ................................................................. > Pembrokeshire Census, Memorials, Hearths, > Orielton CD's and Baptist Sketches at > www.cenquest.co.uk > > > > > > ================================ > Dyfed list http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Carol and Bettye, Please don't go off line. When I get a chance to study my notes I'm sure I will be able to contribute some more. Meanwhile can I ask Carol if she has John James's antecedents. I'm stumped on the James's but John's mother was a Clement from St Nicholas so he was related to many Pen Caer families. Myra Heywood