Dear Listers, A week or so ago, I asked for your help in identifying a church shown in an old photograph (see http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/mystery-church.jpg and my email appended below). I received a number of responses, both on- and off-list, for which I'm very grateful. Unfortunately none of the responders was able to identify the church definitively. In the meantime, I also enlisted help from two experts in the field: 1. Rob Scourfield - Building Conservation Officer for the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park. He is also co-author of two volumes in the Pevsner Architectural Guides "Buildings of Wales" series. Rob co-authored the volumes on Powys, and Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. Rob responded: "This looks familiar - feels more south Wales (Glamorgan or Mons)......this is annoying me now! I'll keep thinking, but nothing springs to mind...." 2. Tom Lloyd - Wales Herald of Arms and Chair of the Cathedrals and Churches Commission of the Church in Wales. He is also author (and co-author) of the Pevsner's "Buildings of Wales" volumes on Glamorgan, Pembrokeshire, and Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. Tom responded: "It looks right for a remote Breconshire [church], but I guess it was the object of a very late C19th restoration or enlargement that has left it little recognisable as shown here... even if by that date drastic alteration was meant to be a thing of the past." So even these two experts have so far been unable to identify the church. For now, the church's identify is still a mystery, but I haven't yet given up the search. A knowledgeable friend of mine wonders whether the church may have undergone some rebuild since the picture was taken, making it more difficult to recognise - or even whether it still exists! If/when we solve the mystery, I'll be sure to let you know. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Personal Homepage: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk Blog: http://johnofbrecon.com -----Original Message----- From: John Ball Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 1:54 PM To: Powys List ; Glamorgan List Subject: [DYFED] Can you identify a Mystery Church? Dear Listers, Can you help to identify an unknown church? A friend of mine was given an old photograph of a church. The donor claims the church is St Ellyw's at Llanelieu, near Talgarth in Breconshire, but we disagree. Comparison shows there are vital differences between the two churches. So the church in the old photo remains unidentified. You can see the old photo on my website by going directly to: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/mystery-church.jpg We think the church is most likely to be situated in one of the three old mid-Wales counties forming modern-day Powys, but it could be anywhere, so don't rule out possibilities outside of Powys. If you think you recognise the church in the old photo, please let me know where it is, either through this List, or directly to my email address: john@jlb2011.co.uk Many thanks for your help. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Personal Homepage: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk Blog: http://johnofbrecon.com Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ Joint Webmaster, Breconshire Local & Family History Society http://www.blfhs.co.uk/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Administrator - Powys RootsWeb mailing list

Lea If there are some short bits you particularly want to see translated, there may be some people on the list who would be prepared to have a go if they have a smattering of Welsh (like me) or, with any luck there may be some proper Welsh speakers. One obstacle is that some of the Welsh is a little archaic in the spelling (as compared with what we learn today), or at least I perceive it to be so sometimes. Although I too have found a treasure trove of interesting material about ancestors in the on-line newspapers I find it both a joy to see how thriving the use of the old language was in my grandparents' generation and before and depressing to think how much sparser Welsh newspapers seem to be today in Wales. David Canberra On 13 Feb 2014, at 1:35 pm, LeaMarie Robertson <leamarrob@gmail.com> wrote: > Dai - > > I want to thank you for the fantastic information and links you shared with > us on the free access to new editions of Welsh Newspapers Online. I spent > an entire night (didn't sleep a wink) searching through newspapers and > found some great information including a 4 page typewritten individually > spaced biography of my 3rd great grandfather George MORGAN. Unfortunately > it was all in Welsh. Fortunately there is always google translate. > Unfortunately we all know the limits of google translate. I was able to > get the basic idea, but would like to have it translated more completely. > It is lengthy so I'm assuming that my best option would be to hire someone > say from the Narberth Museum to translate it for me? I am also a member of > the DYFD Family History Society. >

Hi Lea, If you want to send me a copy off list I'll happily translate for you. Mel.Stark@hotmail.co.uk I have found that some of the vocabulary used in newspapers is sometimes new to me, but I will gladly give you a general idea of the article if not a word by word translation. Regards, Melanie Stark (also a DFHS member) -----Original Message----- From: dyfed-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:00 AM To: dyfed@rootsweb.com Subject: DYFED Digest, Vol 9, Issue 34 Please delete any irrelevant notes when replying to this digest. Today's Topics: 1. Welsh Newspapers Online (LeaMarie Robertson) 2. Re: Welsh Newspapers Online (David Rowlands) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:35:04 -0600 From: LeaMarie Robertson <leamarrob@gmail.com> Subject: [Dyfed] Welsh Newspapers Online To: DYFED@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CABWV7shFv6ak_z6moCVjWLKNi3FcX_Knh5g3SjoXhnw81BCUag@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dai - I want to thank you for the fantastic information and links you shared with us on the free access to new editions of Welsh Newspapers Online. I spent an entire night (didn't sleep a wink) searching through newspapers and found some great information including a 4 page typewritten individually spaced biography of my 3rd great grandfather George MORGAN. Unfortunately it was all in Welsh. Fortunately there is always google translate. Unfortunately we all know the limits of google translate. I was able to get the basic idea, but would like to have it translated more completely. It is lengthy so I'm assuming that my best option would be to hire someone say from the Narberth Museum to translate it for me? I am also a member of the DYFD Family History Society. What I have so far learned that I didn't already know are two things, 1) that my GGG grandfather and my GGG grandmother (George MORGAN b. <1800 Cilymaenllwyd and Elizabeth WILLIAMS b. 1805 <Cilymaenllwyd) both attended Rhydwilym Chapel. 2) That George MORGAN was the oldest of 6 children, 5 boys and a girl. I only have record of 4 children. So I learned that there is more that I don't know! Thank you again Dai for all you do and to all the other listers for all the information and support you share on this great site. Lea ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 18:13:27 +1100 From: David Rowlands <drowlan1@bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Welsh Newspapers Online To: LeaMarie Robertson <leamarrob@gmail.com> Cc: DYFED@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <96AABB3A-4472-4FF1-B8BF-4E10D0131626@bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lea If there are some short bits you particularly want to see translated, there may be some people on the list who would be prepared to have a go if they have a smattering of Welsh (like me) or, with any luck there may be some proper Welsh speakers. One obstacle is that some of the Welsh is a little archaic in the spelling (as compared with what we learn today), or at least I perceive it to be so sometimes. Although I too have found a treasure trove of interesting material about ancestors in the on-line newspapers I find it both a joy to see how thriving the use of the old language was in my grandparents' generation and before and depressing to think how much sparser Welsh newspapers seem to be today in Wales. David Canberra On 13 Feb 2014, at 1:35 pm, LeaMarie Robertson <leamarrob@gmail.com> wrote: > Dai - > > I want to thank you for the fantastic information and links you shared > with > us on the free access to new editions of Welsh Newspapers Online. I spent > an entire night (didn't sleep a wink) searching through newspapers and > found some great information including a 4 page typewritten individually > spaced biography of my 3rd great grandfather George MORGAN. Unfortunately > it was all in Welsh. Fortunately there is always google translate. > Unfortunately we all know the limits of google translate. I was able to > get the basic idea, but would like to have it translated more completely. > It is lengthy so I'm assuming that my best option would be to hire someone > say from the Narberth Museum to translate it for me? I am also a member > of > the DYFD Family History Society. > ------------------------------ To contact the DYFED list administrator, send an email to DYFED-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the DYFED mailing list, send an email to DYFED@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of DYFED Digest, Vol 9, Issue 34 ************************************

I'm glad you could find something useful, Lea. Hopefully we we all find more if they progress to local papers like the Cardigan Advertiser , Narberth weekly news etc. Sorry, but not being a Welsh speaker, I can't help you with the translation. Dai On 13/02/2014 02:35, LeaMarie Robertson wrote: > Dai - > > I want to thank you for the fantastic information and links you shared with > us on the free access to new editions of Welsh Newspapers Online. I spent > an entire night (didn't sleep a wink) searching through newspapers and > found some great information including a 4 page typewritten individually > spaced biography of my 3rd great grandfather George MORGAN. Unfortunately > it was all in Welsh. Fortunately there is always google translate. > Unfortunately we all know the limits of google translate. I was able to > get the basic idea, but would like to have it translated more completely. > It is lengthy so I'm assuming that my best option would be to hire someone > say from the Narberth Museum to translate it for me? I am also a member of > the DYFD Family History Society. > > What I have so far learned that I didn't already know are two things, > > 1) that my GGG grandfather and my GGG grandmother (George MORGAN b. <1800 > Cilymaenllwyd and Elizabeth WILLIAMS b. 1805 <Cilymaenllwyd) both attended > Rhydwilym Chapel. > > 2) That George MORGAN was the oldest of 6 children, 5 boys and a girl. I > only have record of 4 children. So I learned that there is more that I > don't know! > > Thank you again Dai for all you do and to all the other listers for all the > information and support you share on this great site. > > Lea > >

Thank you very much for your response David. Lynne Ingalls of Tucson said that she will be out of town for a few days but that she has a friend who is a Welsh speaker who may be able to help me. She may be a little overwhelmed when she sees how lengthy it is however. Here is a part of the letter that I think may be of special interest to me. I have tried unsuccesfully for years to find information about the parents of my GGG grandmother Elizabeth MORGAN nee WILLIAMS of Llanboidy. I'm hoping this section may give me some small clue. The transcription I have included below, but the link to the original I have added below that because I think the transcription is quite poorly done. Cymmerid ef gan ei lam pan yn dra ieuanc i gapel Rhydwilym, pellder o bump i chwech milltir o ffordd a chofiai trwy ei holl fywyd yr argraif- iadau dwysion a wnawd ar ei feddwl plentynaidd y pn d h\ ny. Mae y fam hono a'i dysgodd mor foreu dr t.nhaws lerau yn ngair y bywyd yn fyw ett *; ac nid-ya unig yn f-w, ond yn heinyf, heb ond ychydii; o arw ddion henaint yn perthyn iddi. Gall ddarllen yn rhwydd heb wydr-ddrychau, ac y mae yn cerdded oddeutu pedair milltir bob Sabboth iV capel drwy bob tyw, dd. Bedjddiwyd hi yn Rhydwil. m o.ideutu 60 mlyiiedd yn o Pan oedd yn 23 mlwrdd oed, priododd gwrth- ddryt.-h.em cofiant Elizabeth Williams,Penyrallt, yr ho i oedd o'r un i.e iran ag ef ei hun, ac o dueddfrj d grefyddol, y naill fel y lJall; felly yn fuaii wedi prio li, cydbenderfy iasant i roddi eu hunain i'r Arg wydd, ac i'w bobl. Darfu iddynt gyd-ddwyn Yr iau yn ffvddlon a chysnrus holl flyn- yddoedd eu boas, hyd lies y gahwyd hwy, o fewn ychydig amser y naill i'r Hall, oddiwrth eu gwaith at eu gwobr. http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3197339/ART5/closbach Thank you again, Lea

Dai - I want to thank you for the fantastic information and links you shared with us on the free access to new editions of Welsh Newspapers Online. I spent an entire night (didn't sleep a wink) searching through newspapers and found some great information including a 4 page typewritten individually spaced biography of my 3rd great grandfather George MORGAN. Unfortunately it was all in Welsh. Fortunately there is always google translate. Unfortunately we all know the limits of google translate. I was able to get the basic idea, but would like to have it translated more completely. It is lengthy so I'm assuming that my best option would be to hire someone say from the Narberth Museum to translate it for me? I am also a member of the DYFD Family History Society. What I have so far learned that I didn't already know are two things, 1) that my GGG grandfather and my GGG grandmother (George MORGAN b. <1800 Cilymaenllwyd and Elizabeth WILLIAMS b. 1805 <Cilymaenllwyd) both attended Rhydwilym Chapel. 2) That George MORGAN was the oldest of 6 children, 5 boys and a girl. I only have record of 4 children. So I learned that there is more that I don't know! Thank you again Dai for all you do and to all the other listers for all the information and support you share on this great site. Lea

Helen, I'm not sure about Llangoedmore, I would read the place from the 1871 census as Llan???dinas - but I can find no place in Genuki's gazetteer of CGN that ends with dinas. John, labourer and Jane Morgan have a daughter Eliza in Trgaron, Caron Is Clawdd, CGN, in 1851; Other John's with daughter Eliza are described as miner (Llanfihangel y Creuddyn); capenter (Llanbadarn); hosier (also Tregaron, Caron is Clawdd); It may be worth you trying to follow these other Elizas through the censuses to see if you can eliminate them. Dai On 11/02/2014 20:53, Helen Shipley wrote: > Hello > I'm trying to trace the family of my ancestress, Eliza Morgan. The > information I have is rather sketchy and I don't know how accurate some > of it is. > > I know Eliza lived much of her life in Cardiff. She married John > CLIFFORD there but there residence at the time was a hotel. Their > children were born there and she died there. They only had one daughter, > called Mary, so that may be her mother's name. > > She was born around 1845 and a place of birth is only mentioned on one > census - I couldn't make it out but have been advised it's probably > Llangoedmore, the county is definitely recorded as Cardiganshire. Her > father's name is given as John, on her marriage, occupation Labourer. > That's it regarding where she came from. > > Any help or suggestions will be very gratefully received. > > Helen >

Hi Helen I found the following: 1871 52 Wellington Street, Cardiff John, aged 21, labourer at foundry, Bradford-on-Avon, Wiltshire Eliza, aged 23, Llangoedmor 1881 11 Edward Street, Llandaff John, aged 31, hotel porter, b. Bradport (sic) Eliza, aged 33 (ink smeared), b. Cardiganshire John, aged 6, b. Cardiff 1891 22 Glynne Street, Canton John, aged 43, b. Wiltshire, Bradford Eliza, aged 46, b. Cardiff(!!) Charles, aged 16, b. Cardiff David, aged 14, b. Cardiff Philip, aged 12, b. Cardiff Joseph, aged 10, b. Cardiff Mary, aged 6, b. Cardiff (John junior has by now left home and appears to be working as the Boots boy at the Globe Hotel, Castle Street) I agree the 1871 place looks like Llangoedmor but the enumerator might simply have taken a run at it, and it could really be the much smaller hamlet of Llandygwydd, in which case the following census results might be helpful: 1861 John Morgan, 43, carpenter, b. Cenarth Anne, 40, b. Cenarth Thomas, 21, b. Cenarth David, 18, b. Cenarth Eliza, 16, b. Llandygwydd Margaret, 14, b. Llandygwydd Richard, 12, b. Llandygwydd John, 10, b. Llandygwydd Evan, 8, b. Llandygwydd Mary, 6, b. Llandygwydd Benjamin, 4, b. Llandygwydd Margaret Evans, 67, mother-in-law, b. Blaenporth HTH Robert -----Original Message----- From: dyfed-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dyfed-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Helen Shipley I'm trying to trace the family of my ancestress, Eliza Morgan. The information I have is rather sketchy and I don't know how accurate some of it is. I know Eliza lived much of her life in Cardiff. She married John CLIFFORD there but there residence at the time was a hotel. Their children were born there and she died there. They only had one daughter, called Mary, so that may be her mother's name. She was born around 1845 and a place of birth is only mentioned on one census - I couldn't make it out but have been advised it's probably Llangoedmore, the county is definitely recorded as Cardiganshire. Her father's name is given as John, on her marriage, occupation Labourer. That's it regarding where she came from. Any help or suggestions will be very gratefully received.

Hello I'm trying to trace the family of my ancestress, Eliza Morgan. The information I have is rather sketchy and I don't know how accurate some of it is. I know Eliza lived much of her life in Cardiff. She married John CLIFFORD there but there residence at the time was a hotel. Their children were born there and she died there. They only had one daughter, called Mary, so that may be her mother's name. She was born around 1845 and a place of birth is only mentioned on one census - I couldn't make it out but have been advised it's probably Llangoedmore, the county is definitely recorded as Cardiganshire. Her father's name is given as John, on her marriage, occupation Labourer. That's it regarding where she came from. Any help or suggestions will be very gratefully received. Helen Helen

List Members, I have been asked to remind the List, that Richard passed away in December 2013. His E-mail address continues to receive daily messages, referring to list items and Pembroke in Particular. Some are from list members while others are probably from individuals who picked up his E-mail address from List Archives. His widow finds this distressing, as while she can apparently read the message (in outlook?), cannot reply, as she does not know the password for the E-mail account. Could you all delete his E-Mail address from your contact list. Grateful for your co-operation, Rhodri

Hello Daryl I have quite a few Thomas lines in Haverfordwest & district so I was interested in your question. However - to avoid spending time following a wrong lead could you answer a few questions? I can seee the baptism of Joseph Thomas on 13 Aug 1823. He is shown as son of George Thomas a tailor of Dew Street Haverfordwest and his wife Martha. Now my questions are - 1. Do you know from other family documents that Joseph's father was George Thomas as there are quite a few Joseph thomas around.? 2. Are you certain that the George and Martha parents of Aquila William Fanny etc who are shown in the 1851 census in North Street as Shopkeepers - are the same as the George Thonmas , Tailor and wife Martha? That's all for now. I have collected quite a large Thomas database so would be happy to help if I can. You can send me any details off-list if you want. Cheers Pat On 09/02/2014 02:15, Daryl Hannant wrote: > Hello > > > > I have very recently started researching my wife's mothers family (THOMAS) > and have reached a point where I am having difficulty in advancing. This may > be due to my inexperience or there just may not be any more records or there > could be numerous other reasons. Suffice to say, I am now looking for input > from anyone who may be in a position to help me. > > > > The following is a brief indication of where I am at. > > > > Joseph THOMAS > > Born: 13/8/1823, Haverfordwest > > Father: George THOMAS > > Mother: Martha THOMAS (nee) JAMES > > Convicted: 6/2/1843, Liverpool Boro > > Transported: 3/7/1843, Lord Petre, Van Diemens Land > > > > George THOMAS > > Born: 1796, Walton, Wales > > Married: 25/5/1822 > > Wife: Martha JAMES > > Children: > > > Birth > > > Last Name > > First Name(s) > > Date > > Place > > > THOMAS > > Isaac > > 1819 > > Haverfordwest > > > THOMAS > > Joseph > > 1821 > > Haverfordwest > > > THOMAS > > Joseph > > 13/8/1823 > > Haverfordwest > > > THOMAS > > George > > 11/5/1826 > > Haverfordwest > > > THOMAS > > Elizia > > 1828 > > Haverfordwest > > > THOMAS > > Ann > > 25/5/1830 > > Haverfordwest > > > THOMAS > > Warren > > 29/7/1832 > > Haverfordwest > > > THOMAS > > Aquilla > > 1834 > > ? > > > THOMAS > > William > > 1837 > > Haverfordwest > > > THOMAS > > Martha > > 1839 > > Haverfordwest > > > THOMAS > > Fanny > > ? > > Haverfordwest > > > > I am trying to get confirmation of the above and if possible further details > on both George and Martha. > > > > I have a large Excel 2010 spreadsheet with all the family details if anyone > is interested to see how Joseph continued the THOMAS line here in Australia. > > > > Regards > > > > Daryl > > > ================================ > Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Daryl, If George and Martha Thomas lived for some time, then someone may be able to provide census entries, and as you have George's birth year you may already have more information. They married, according to my records in St. Martin's Haverfordwest. If Walton means Walton West which I think it does, then the index shows Walton West marriage records begin in 1800. If his parents married in a nearby area you may eventually find them.....you could not, however, get two more difficult names to research than Thomas and James in these area..there are pages of marriages! St. Martins is close to the Walton West area and also close by is Freystrop......because of possible family naming patterns there was an Isaac Thomas in 1806 married a lady M. James from the Bishop's Transcripts (unfortunately which don't show much by way of information) and there was a Joseph Thomas married Martha Gitto in 1809 ...I wonder if they are kinfolk. However, I'll wait to see what other Listers can find. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Daryl Hannant Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2014 1:15 PM To: DYFED@rootsweb.com Subject: [Dyfed] PEM, Haverfordwest, THOMAS, 1750-1830 Hello I have very recently started researching my wife's mothers family (THOMAS) and have reached a point where I am having difficulty in advancing. This may be due to my inexperience or there just may not be any more records or there could be numerous other reasons. Suffice to say, I am now looking for input from anyone who may be in a position to help me. The following is a brief indication of where I am at. Joseph THOMAS Born: 13/8/1823, Haverfordwest Father: George THOMAS Mother: Martha THOMAS (nee) JAMES Convicted: 6/2/1843, Liverpool Boro Transported: 3/7/1843, Lord Petre, Van Diemens Land George THOMAS Born: 1796, Walton, Wales Married: 25/5/1822 Wife: Martha JAMES Children: Birth Last Name First Name(s) Date Place THOMAS Isaac 1819 Haverfordwest THOMAS Joseph 1821 Haverfordwest THOMAS Joseph 13/8/1823 Haverfordwest THOMAS George 11/5/1826 Haverfordwest THOMAS Elizia 1828 Haverfordwest THOMAS Ann 25/5/1830 Haverfordwest THOMAS Warren 29/7/1832 Haverfordwest THOMAS Aquilla 1834 ? THOMAS William 1837 Haverfordwest THOMAS Martha 1839 Haverfordwest THOMAS Fanny ? Haverfordwest I am trying to get confirmation of the above and if possible further details on both George and Martha. I have a large Excel 2010 spreadsheet with all the family details if anyone is interested to see how Joseph continued the THOMAS line here in Australia. Regards Daryl ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Surfacing, briefly* . . . Thanks to yr Achwr; the development of Welsh naming systems is a bit of a mystery out here, so mapping how we get from Rhydderch to Protheroe is an education. :-) Cheers from soggy bits of Queensland Dale PS: Scant comfort, I realise, but Kowanyama QLD has had more than a yard of rain in 5 days. So, it could be worse. > -----Original Message----- > From: dyfed-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:dyfed-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf > Of yr achwr > Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2014 9:46 AM > To: SANDRA DAVIES > Cc: Pat Powell; Dyfed > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Rhydderch and Protheroe > > Sandra, > In my opinion no. > Searching the NLW Wills database for Rhydderch, Prydderch and Protheroe (I > have not searched for variant spellings) for St. David's Diocese gives: > Rhydderch - 34 Wills. > Prytherch - 7 Wills (all in Carmarthenshire). > Protheroe - 40 Wills. Many of these probably relate to the Protheroe Family of > Dolwilym, Llanglydwen, but there are so few, that it would not take that long > to look at each one, and would in my opinion be a worthwhile exercise for > anyone researching these names. > Rhodri > > > > > ======================================== > Message Received: Feb 08 2014, 08:45 AM > From: "SANDRA DAVIES" > To: achwr@fsmail.net > Cc: "Pat Powell" , "Dyfed" > Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Rhydderch and Protheroe > > > Hi Rhodri > > > As Rhydderch was an uncommon Christian name as you say, would that indicate > that all the Protheroes are descended from one individual Rhydderch. No, > connection as far as I know, just interested! > > > Regards > Sandra > > > > > > > > ACHWR > > ================================ > Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html > [Dec2012] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

Dear Rob, Tycroes is about 2 km southwest of Ammanford. It includes a street named Heol Brown, so it is clearly the place referred to in the funeral report. I can see three chapels in Tycroes, named Bethesda, Caersalem and Moriah. However Tycroes is less than 2 km south of the village of Saron, which has a Baptist chapel named Saron with its own burial yard. My guess is that the burial took place at Saron Chapel - see http://goo.gl/maps/Lk3qN on Google maps. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: john@jlb2011.co.uk Personal Homepage: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ Blog: http://johnofbrecon.com Joint Webmaster, Breconshire Local & Family History Society http://www.blfhs.co.uk/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Administrator - Powys RootsWeb mailing lists -----Original Message----- From: Rob Vaughan Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 11:45 AM To: DYFED@rootsweb.com Subject: [Dyfed] Saron burial ground Hi I doing some research into my ggg grandmother and would any one know the following 1) Saron burial ground - Tycroes - where it is ? 2) which newspaper this article would most like be from (see blow) any assistance would be welcome regards Rob Vaughan *Thursday MArch 12 1925* *Tycroes Centenarian laid to rest* The funeral of the late Mrs Mary Davies, (nee Price) Heol Brown, Tycroes took place on Saturday last, the remains being interred in the Saron burial ground. the funeral was an exceptionally large one with numerous friends form the district gathering together to pay their regrets on having lost the oldest inhabitant of the district. The deceased lady celebrated her 100th birthday last December and was wonderfully able and strong till within a few days of her death, retaining her faculties to the end. The service at the house was conducted by the Rev A Grant (Moriah) and the Revs T R Roberts (Pisgah), L G Lewis (Pontardawe) and Glasnant Young (Cwmtwrch) officiated at the Chapel and graveside. The favourite hymns of the deceased , "Yn y dyforedd" and "O Fryniau Caersalem" were sung at the Chapel. The Revs L G Lewis and T R Roberts paid high tributes to the deceased, she being a very faithful member at Bethesda. Many of those present remember the day she took part in the opening ceremony of the new Chapel at Bethesda about 10 years ago. Beautiful floral tributes were sent form Ardwyn House and Mr & Mrs D Thomas. The deepest sympathy is extended to all the family. -- Robert Vaughan B.Sc (Hons) MIMMM C.Eng ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello I have very recently started researching my wife's mothers family (THOMAS) and have reached a point where I am having difficulty in advancing. This may be due to my inexperience or there just may not be any more records or there could be numerous other reasons. Suffice to say, I am now looking for input from anyone who may be in a position to help me. The following is a brief indication of where I am at. Joseph THOMAS Born: 13/8/1823, Haverfordwest Father: George THOMAS Mother: Martha THOMAS (nee) JAMES Convicted: 6/2/1843, Liverpool Boro Transported: 3/7/1843, Lord Petre, Van Diemens Land George THOMAS Born: 1796, Walton, Wales Married: 25/5/1822 Wife: Martha JAMES Children: Birth Last Name First Name(s) Date Place THOMAS Isaac 1819 Haverfordwest THOMAS Joseph 1821 Haverfordwest THOMAS Joseph 13/8/1823 Haverfordwest THOMAS George 11/5/1826 Haverfordwest THOMAS Elizia 1828 Haverfordwest THOMAS Ann 25/5/1830 Haverfordwest THOMAS Warren 29/7/1832 Haverfordwest THOMAS Aquilla 1834 ? THOMAS William 1837 Haverfordwest THOMAS Martha 1839 Haverfordwest THOMAS Fanny ? Haverfordwest I am trying to get confirmation of the above and if possible further details on both George and Martha. I have a large Excel 2010 spreadsheet with all the family details if anyone is interested to see how Joseph continued the THOMAS line here in Australia. Regards Daryl

Hi I doing some research into my ggg grandmother and would any one know the following 1) Saron burial ground - Tycroes - where it is ? 2) which newspaper this article would most like be from (see blow) any assistance would be welcome regards Rob Vaughan *Thursday MArch 12 1925* *Tycroes Centenarian laid to rest* The funeral of the late Mrs Mary Davies, (nee Price) Heol Brown, Tycroes took place on Saturday last, the remains being interred in the Saron burial ground. the funeral was an exceptionally large one with numerous friends form the district gathering together to pay their regrets on having lost the oldest inhabitant of the district. The deceased lady celebrated her 100th birthday last December and was wonderfully able and strong till within a few days of her death, retaining her faculties to the end. The service at the house was conducted by the Rev A Grant (Moriah) and the Revs T R Roberts (Pisgah), L G Lewis (Pontardawe) and Glasnant Young (Cwmtwrch) officiated at the Chapel and graveside. The favourite hymns of the deceased , "Yn y dyforedd" and "O Fryniau Caersalem" were sung at the Chapel. The Revs L G Lewis and T R Roberts paid high tributes to the deceased, she being a very faithful member at Bethesda. Many of those present remember the day she took part in the opening ceremony of the new Chapel at Bethesda about 10 years ago. Beautiful floral tributes were sent form Ardwyn House and Mr & Mrs D Thomas. The deepest sympathy is extended to all the family. -- Robert Vaughan B.Sc (Hons) MIMMM C.Eng

Sandra, In my opinion no. Searching the NLW Wills database for Rhydderch, Prydderch and Protheroe (I have not searched for variant spellings) for St. David's Diocese gives: Rhydderch - 34 Wills. Prytherch - 7 Wills (all in Carmarthenshire). Protheroe - 40 Wills. Many of these probably relate to the Protheroe Family of Dolwilym, Llanglydwen, but there are so few, that it would not take that long to look at each one, and would in my opinion be a worthwhile exercise for anyone researching these names. Rhodri ======================================== Message Received: Feb 08 2014, 08:45 AM From: "SANDRA DAVIES" To: achwr@fsmail.net Cc: "Pat Powell" , "Dyfed" Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Rhydderch and Protheroe Hi Rhodri As Rhydderch was an uncommon Christian name as you say, would that indicate that all the Protheroes are descended from one individual Rhydderch. No, connection as far as I know, just interested! Regards Sandra ACHWR

From the NLW site: There is great excitement today as we release 27 publications (200,000 pages) from the Library’s rich collection on [1]Welsh Ne[2]wspapers Online. Take a trip back in time from the comfort of your home or office and discover millions of freely available articles published before 1919. The resource now allows you to search and read over 630,000 pages from almost 100 newspaper publications from the National Library’s collection, and this will grow to over 1 million pages as more publications are added during 2014. Among the latest titles are Y Negesydd, Caernarvon and Denbigh Herald, Glamorgan Gazette, Carmarthen Journal, Welshman, and Rhondda Leader, not forgetting Y Drych, the weekly newspaper for the Welsh diaspora in America. The resource also includes some publications that were digitised for [3]The Welsh Experience of World War One project. enjoy! Dai References 1. http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/ 2. http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/ 3. http://cymru1914.org/

Hi Rhodri As Rhydderch was an uncommon Christian name as you say, would that indicate that all the Protheroes are descended from one individual Rhydderch. No, connection as far as I know, just interested! Regards Sandra

Dear Lynne, I'm still very grateful for the caring and sharing (researchwise) with your late mother and you too.... and who knows, this may tie us together again. Pat has given you good answers, and as James R. was born in 1836 at Llanhowell, he may be a child of John Rhydderch of Whitchurch who married Hannah Morgan at St. David's 23/10/1832..the names seem to fit. There was also a David Rhyddarch who married Mary James at Dinas 14/10/1817 and they may be connected. You will also find the records contain various spellings Pretheroe in Mathry in the 1780's and 90's and Prithro at Hayscastle in 1799. In my own research fields Joseph Devonald of Nevern had a daughter Diana in 1740 and this daughter married Thomas Rhytharch at Nevern in 1766. Now some of the Land Tax records of the time appear to show that at some stages a John Protheroe was the lessee or proprietor of Joseph Devonald's lands, and surprisingly Diana is shown in some records with a bridegroom named JOHN Rhytharch......when I purchased the actual record I believe I found that they signed with crosses so would not have had a clue which name was on their parish register. I'm pretty sure from my memory his name was actually Thomas R. I am afraid we are at the whim of each individual scribe! John Protheroe married Margaret Gibby in 1789 at Fishguard Joseph RODERICK married Martha Phillip at Newport in 1790 William RODERICK married Margaret Harry at Dinas in 1777 Margaret RODERICK married David James at Newport 1801 Sarah RODERICK married John Walter at Newport 1811 William Rees Ruddyrch married Catherine James at Nevern in 1687 David Rydderch married Margaret Morgan at Whitchurch in 1708. Because of the name Joseph I have always considered that the Rodericks were connected to Diana.....and somewhere I am sure I have work I have done on this family which rather confirmed this, but as I haven't looked at in years I don't know where I've put it....maybe there are Wills, or Land Tax records. As to Dorothy Harries......I remember I corresponded with someone re a mysterious Dorothy Harries, but who, when and why? There was also a Rev. David Prothero (I haven't checked the spelling) at Eglwyswrw at one stage, and one of the wealthy Gowers of Cilgerran in her Will said he was her kin. I have an idea that he traced to Cardiganshire. Good luck! By listing all these I am hoping someone will find a family connection to clarify matters. Bettye Kirkwood, Australia -----Original Message----- From: Lynne Simpson Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 4:22 PM To: dyfed@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Dyfed] Dorothy Protheroe b 1872, Llanrian Hi to the list I have a bit of a puzzle with one of my Bateman people. William Bateman (b 1866) was the son of Thomas Bateman and Margaret Jenkins, and grandson of David Bateman and Mary Williams. William married Dorothy Protheroe on 8 December 1892 supposedly in Haverfordwest Registry Office. I have a note saying that her father was James Protheroe. In the 1901 census Dora Bateman is listed as 29 years old and born in Llanrian. The census for 1891 lists Dorothy Protheroe age 19 living in Trevine as a single woman with two young boarders: Thomas and Dorothy Harries (age 9 and 7 respectively). I can find no census entry prior to 1891 for a Dorothy Protheroe born in 1872 (or anywhere thereabouts). There is, however, an entry in 1881 which shows a Dorothy Harries age 9 born in St Lawrence with siblings James, age 12, and William, age 6. These three children are listed as children of William John and Martha John at Trerhos. The 1871 census shows John Harries age 55 with wife Martha Harried age 28 and son James age 2. The birth places certainly indicate that Martha and James are the same Martha John and James Harries cited in 1881. Martha Harries/John appears to have been born either Martha Richards or Martha James. There is no indication that Dorothy Harries married someone Protheroe prior to 1891 but it appears that Dorothy Harries d/o John Harries and Martha is the same person as Dorothy Protheroe who married William Bateman. Can someone shine a torch on this one please. Thanks Lynne Simpson Canberra Australia ================================ Dyfed list REVISED resources http://home.clara.net/daibevan/DyfedML.html [Dec2012] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to DYFED-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message